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How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 9 2008 19:32:00
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Kyusho
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To something completely different?
When i first started training i was always seeking ''the best'' routine, and switched to completely different plans frequently when plateaus where reached. By that i mean a plan with a completley different setup up; split, reps, exercises etc...
Now as a more advanced trainee, i find myself staying within a basic setup for yearts on end, but making continual adaptions in order to reach goals. If i plateu, instead of looking for ''the best'' routine i will make a slight change to my current routine; additional weight, additional reps, additional sets, reduced or increased rep cadence and rest times, less volume more weight... when i have exhausted a certain exercise fully i will drop it and swap another similar movement in its place and build that up.
What do you think the pro's and cons are for each approach, and how do the more advanced guys operate?
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 10 2008 4:22:36
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T0NY
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I rearely deviate from a select few exercises. I would always look to change volume or intensity before changing my routine.
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 10 2008 7:12:41
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Fat Pete
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Never. The three core exercises must always be done. Add a couple of assistance exercises. That's your lot. Sets and reps and weights can be altered, the assistance work can be tinkered with. but the rest - never.
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 10 2008 11:32:26
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Lord Monkcheese
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The fundamentals are always the same - Bench Press, Deadlift, Squat, plus one more big compound (one Push, one Pull, one Leg exercise) then 2 or 3 more exercises to compliment these.
However, the Big 3 will be varied, so maybe incline pressing, rack deadlift, front squat, then the next programme, decline pressing, Oly deadlift, Box Squat, etc.
Split will vary from programme to programme (4 day split - upper/lower, 5 day split over 7 days, 5 day split over 10 days, 3 day Push/Pull/Legs)
Sets and reps will vary either each programme or even within the same programme (volume session one week, the following week Max Effort session).
Programmes generally last for 6-12 weeks and are primarily hypertrophy based, but as part of a periodised structure, I'll also have a conditioning phase where the above doesn't apply at all.
The thing is, I've found it all works in terms of hypertrophy but not so much for strength purposes unless I spend a dedictaed period of time focusing on the same lift.
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 10 2008 11:38:34
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DC77
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I vary quite often the number of days per week I train and the sets and reps but I base my training around deadlift, squats, bench, chins and shoulder press.
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 10 2008 12:34:32
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Rob.S
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I'm the same as Fat Pete, I never change the big 3, and some of the other compounds I've keped, including some of the isolations. My routine looks very similar to the one I started with in september and I've not found myself hitting a brick wall with it.
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 10 2008 12:41:48
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sheriff_jonny
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i too make small changes here and there, rather than ripping it all up and i always work in a 4 day split, it suits me. But i'm thinking of trying a couple of different training plans soon, either a mentzer style plan, or i'm gonna try some static contraction training, but obviously i've got concerns over changing from what has always been successful for me.
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 10 2008 17:37:17
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stephen77
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like above.
I have a core routine of the big lifts like bench, squat, deads, pull ups.
i may tinker with bits and bobs depending on how i feel or slight niggles.
eg. if i have bad shoulder i may drop bench for seated press etc. but once better back to normal.
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 10 2008 20:38:40
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Fruity
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I think fairly regular dramatic changes are very useful. Even dropping the big 3 for a month or two just for the change.
Last year I was training at a well equiped gym but got stuck in a bit of a training rut, I'm stuck to home training for a year now and have had to experiment alot more, did four weeks of GVT (10 by 10) and thought I'd found the best work out ever but now I find it a bit intense so am on to a comb of supersets and drop sets (at least I get done quicker) Feels good but I think the main factor in my improvements is simply changing things around.
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 11 2008 4:33:03
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paj_mccarthy
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I only do five exercises - Bench, Incline Bench, Squat, Deadlift, Rows.
At the moment, as I can still progress in a linear fashion, I don't vary the rep range (5 mainly) - I simply add more weight until I plateau, deload and start again. I will continue doing this until my linear progression starts to taper.
I will then add more volume to the routine; so in instances where I would have used ramp sets in the routine above I will perhaps do a full 5x5 to place more load on the body. Hopefully this will bring me some more progression.
When this tapers off I will shock the body again with a dual factor programme where I load up in the first five weeks and deload/intensify for the remaining four - five weeks. DFT requires that I change my rep range after weeks 4-5 - I will probably go from 5 reps to 3 reps for weeks 5-10. I imagine that I will make gains (albeit at a slower rate than previously) for quite some time using this theory.
Once the DFT routine above is not having much of an effect, I will experiment with using more stressful loading periods to try and improve the gains and then maybe add a further period that incorporates doubles or singles for two or three weeks making it a 12/13 week cycle.
I don't have any plans after that - it will probably see me through for the next 5 years at least.
So my lifting plan won't change that much in the future, I will just take the logical next step to always progressively overload the body. The exercises won't change - at most I'll add in one or two assistance exercises somewhere along the line.
I got most of the above ideas from Rippetoe and his books on Practical Programming for Strength Training - worth a read and sounds like you'd enjoy it from the question you posted.
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 11 2008 15:29:20
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Lord Monkcheese
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Paj - what are your aims and are they being met training like this. I'm guessing yes otherwise you'd change it so humour me here  .
There's often discussion around whether different exercises work different parts of the muscle and the discussions often conclude with a statement like "if the same few exercises were enough to make gains, why bother doing anything else."
It would be interesting to see a real life example proving this.
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 11 2008 16:42:32
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Mortimer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fat Pete
Never. The three core exercises must always be done. Add a couple of assistance exercises. That's your lot. Sets and reps and weights can be altered, the assistance work can be tinkered with. but the rest - never.
Couldnt agree more with Pete on this one. The three biggies are a must and shouldnt be left out of any sound routine..lest you really cant perform them for medical reasons...by medical i mean valid ones..not..i play football so i dont need to squat as my legs would be overtrained. But the squat, deadlift and bench as the main three..and others such as weighted dips, chins, barbell rows and military press are IMO essential.
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 11 2008 17:04:29
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drewsky
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Be aware of course that changing any of the following constitutes a change to the program:
Foot placement
Grip width
grip angle
Time between sets
Set rep scheme an volume
Time between identical training sessions
Order or exercises
etc etc
Generally speaking the more experienced the trainee the more you have to change up the program because the nervous system is better at resetting and learning the new program meaning it gets more efficient and uses a reduced no. of muscle fibres to do the same work (OK over simplification).
You would rarely change all the above, just changing your foot placement on a deadlift at the beginning of a session constitutes a new program....
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 12 2008 11:34:02
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Mortimer
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Paj when you say DFT or Dual Factor Training are you going form something along the lines of the Madcow Dual factor programme or is there another your considering later down the line?? i've gone back and started the linear programme but i'll be on Dual factor training as soon as the gains dry up again.
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 12 2008 13:22:21
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paj_mccarthy
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Hi mate, yeah I plan on doing the the Madcow variation of DFT to begin with, although I might surprise my body somewhere along the line with a 10 week stint of HST, but this won't be for a while yet, I want at least a 500kg total on the three main lifts before I start messing around with HST. Currently am at 460 (maybe 470 on a good day of squatting!). I'm also doing the linear programme at the moment - I seem to still be gaining well on that!
< Message edited by paj_mccarthy -- Apr. 12 2008 13:23:17 >
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 12 2008 23:42:38
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Kyusho
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Some interesting training techniques and discussions going on here, I thought i'd outlign how i train at the moment.
Take a simple normal 10 rep bench press for example;
Bench for 100kg for 10 reps next sessions most people would increase weight, but I reduce rest time between sets from say 3 minutes to 1 minute. I may then only get 9 reps.
Next week i get 10 reps. So the week after i lift with a slower rep cadence, say 7 seconds instead of 3! I may only get 8 reps. The following week i achieve the full 10 reps on my slower cadence with very little rest time between sets. Now is the time to add more reps.... i get 11. Next week i finally decide to add weight and start all over again....
How does this sound to people?
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 13 2008 7:12:05
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paj_mccarthy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kyusho
Some interesting training techniques and discussions going on here, I thought i'd outlign how i train at the moment.
Take a simple normal 10 rep bench press for example;
Bench for 100kg for 10 reps next sessions most people would increase weight, but I reduce rest time between sets from say 3 minutes to 1 minute. I may then only get 9 reps.
Next week i get 10 reps. So the week after i lift with a slower rep cadence, say 7 seconds instead of 3! I may only get 8 reps. The following week i achieve the full 10 reps on my slower cadence with very little rest time between sets. Now is the time to add more reps.... i get 11. Next week i finally decide to add weight and start all over again....
How does this sound to people?
Sounds like that will work to me. Clear measurable progression is the the way to train in my mind, and your method certainly adheres to that.
Have you ever hit a plateau where you can't get to that next step, ie. you do a weight at x kgs with 3 minutes rest between the sets but the next week you don't get the full 10 reps with 1 minute between sets? What do you do to overcome this? Do you deload?
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 13 2008 7:17:22
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cliff_vtr
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I personally just switch up the rep range, i normally do 5s, when they go stale I will change to 3s, then back to 5s when they go stale
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RE: How frequently do you change your lifting plan? - Apr. 13 2008 7:25:53
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paj_mccarthy
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quote:
I personally just switch up the rep range, i normally do 5s, when they go stale I will change to 3s, then back to 5s when they go stale
Similar to what I will be doing shortly.
If you plateau at 5x100kg - the next week do you do 3x100 and then keep adding the poundages from there?
In essence the 3x100kg week will act as a short deloading period. This is the method I will use.
Or do you predict that your 3rm will be 110kg (for example) and start in and around that weight?
< Message edited by paj_mccarthy -- Apr. 13 2008 7:26:15 >
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