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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 11:28:36
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ap
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Things I would consider in this matter:
- digestive issues with big meals compared to smaller ones
- metabolic stimulation of eating more frequently
- stability of insulin and blood sugar through eating more frequently
- Serge Nubret was a professional bodybuilder - his metabolism and assimilation of food is elite and not typical of most (much in same way Paul Dillett, arguably one of the most freakish physiques of all time, claimed to only eat twice a day)
- sluggishness/bloating issues related from eating bigger meals
Others probably but writing this quickly
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 11:30:54
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Jamesw
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dirtyvest
but there would be a difference if, from nothing else, there would be an effect on their metabolisms which would surely present different results, no?
yes one would have more fat than muscle but they would weigh about the same
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 11:32:10
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mick_the_brick
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dirtyvest
but there would be a difference if, from nothing else, there would be an effect on their metabolisms which would surely present different results, no?
Agree DV..
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 11:34:12
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Integra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jamesw
quote:
ORIGINAL: dirtyvest
but there would be a difference if, from nothing else, there would be an effect on their metabolisms which would surely present different results, no?
yes one would have more fat than muscle but they would weigh about the same
Why though?
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 11:40:44
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Nigeepoo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mick_the_brick
quote:
ORIGINAL: Nigeepoo
Where weight is concerned, it's Calories that count, so meal timings make no difference. Where anything else is concerned, meal timings can make a difference. Just so I can understand this Nige...
So If I consumed a 2500 cals over 1 or 2 meals ED
versus the same amount of cals over 5 or 6 meals there
would be no difference in weight gain / weight loss etc..?? None whatsoever.
I find this very hard to believe TBH  So do a lot of people! Metabolic ward studies (where Calories were strictly controlled) showed that total Calories eaten per day were what counted. Even varying the macro split made no difference to weight (though it did make a difference to appetite/body composition).
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 11:43:03
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Integra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Nigeepoo
quote:
ORIGINAL: mick_the_brick
quote:
ORIGINAL: Nigeepoo
Where weight is concerned, it's Calories that count, so meal timings make no difference. Where anything else is concerned, meal timings can make a difference. Just so I can understand this Nige...
So If I consumed a 2500 cals over 1 or 2 meals ED
versus the same amount of cals over 5 or 6 meals there
would be no difference in weight gain / weight loss etc..?? None whatsoever.
I find this very hard to believe TBH So do a lot of people! Metabolic ward studies (where Calories were strictly controlled) showed that total Calories eaten per day were what counted. Even varying the macro split made no difference to weight (though it did make a difference to appetite/body composition).
what about gains in lean mass?
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 11:44:48
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mick_the_brick
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Thanks for the reply Nige...
I'll take your word for it but I struggle with
the thought of eating 1kg of beef in one sitting
'vs' eating the same amount over 4 meals
I can't see the body can process / utilise the 1kg in the limited time frame of
one meal vs 4 meals 
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ORIGINAL: cLaTTeReD
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 11:47:50
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Nigeepoo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dirtyvest
but there would be a difference if, from nothing else, there would be an effect on their metabolisms which would surely present different results, no? No, actually. BMR only reduces after a considerable length of time on a caloric deficit of 30% or more. BMR is the same whether you eat 1 meal a day or 6 meals a day. I've been spending a lot of time on Lyle McDonald's forums* 'cos he does all the research and he really knows his stuff.
*Nice forum http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/index.php
Sarky forum http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/forums/index.php
< Message edited by Nigeepoo -- Apr. 11 2008 11:48:09 >
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 11:49:37
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Nigeepoo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Integra
what about gains in lean mass? This could vary as body comp can be affected in extreme cases that result in insufficient protein intake. Weight however is not.
< Message edited by Nigeepoo -- Apr. 23 2008 11:30:55 >
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 11:53:43
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Integra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Nigeepoo
quote:
ORIGINAL: Integra
what about gains in lean mass? This could vary as I said that body comp can be affected. Weight however is not.
The debate has gone off in a different direction for some reason.
The OP posed the question "which would see the better results?". Would one see themselves become considerably fatter than the other? Or do timings have no impact on the lean mass/fat ratio of the additional weight?
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 11:54:45
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Nigeepoo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mick_the_brick
Thanks for the reply Nige...
I'll take your word for it but I struggle with the thought of eating 1kg of beef in one sitting 'vs' eating the same amount over 4 meals I can't see the body can process / utilise the 1kg in the limited time frame of one meal vs 4 meals If you manage to eat 1kg of beef in one go without puking, you'll probably go off to sleep while your body is digesting it. 1kg of beef takes about 4 times longer to digest than 250g of beef so you won't be able to eat again for quite some time after eating 1kg of beef.
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 11:58:17
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mick_the_brick
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Nigeepoo
If you manage to eat 1kg of beef in one go without puking, you'll probably go off to sleep while your body is digesting it. 1kg of beef takes about 4 times longer to digest than 250g of beef so you won't be able to eat again for quite some time after eating 1kg of beef.
So your body is able to process/utilise the 1kg of beef eaten in one sitting??
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tell your "friend" not to be a pecker and do some test
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 12:02:16
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samcim
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I can eat the second lads portions but have them every 3 hours if I wanted lol!
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 12:03:15
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Integra
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Lets not turn this into a who has the biggest e-penis debate.
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 12:04:51
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mick_the_brick
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LOL 
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ORIGINAL: cLaTTeReD
tell your "friend" not to be a pecker and do some test
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 12:05:39
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buzzer
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Effect of the pattern of food intake on human energy metabolism.
Verboeket-van de Venne WP, Westerterp KR, Kester AD.
Department of Human Biology, University of Limburg, Maastricht, The Netherlands.
The pattern of food intake can affect the regulation of body weight and lipogenesis. We studied the effect of meal frequency on human energy expenditure (EE) and its components. During 1 week ten male adults (age 25-61 years, body mass index 20.7-30.4 kg/m2) were fed to energy balance at two meals/d (gorging pattern) and during another week at seven meals/d (nibbling pattern). For the first 6 d of each week the food was provided at home, followed by a 36 h stay in a respiration chamber. O2 consumption and CO2 production (and hence EE) were calculated over 24 h. EE in free-living conditions was measured over the 2 weeks with doubly-labelled water (average daily metabolic rate, ADMR). The three major components of ADMR are basal metabolic rate (BMR), diet-induced thermogenesis (DIT) and EE for physical activity (ACT). There was no significant effect of meal frequency on 24 h EE or ADMR. Furthermore, BMR and ACT did not differ between the two patterns. DIT was significantly elevated in the gorging pattern, but this effect was neutralized by correction for the relevant time interval. With the method used for determination of DIT no significant effect of meal frequency on the contribution of DIT to ADMR could be demonstrated.
And another:
Br J Nutr. 1997 Apr;77 Suppl 1:S57-70. Links
Meal frequency and energy balance.
* Bellisle F,
* McDevitt R,
* Prentice AM.
INSERM U341, Hotel Dieu de Paris, France.
Several epidemiological studies have observed an inverse relationship between people's habitual frequency of eating and body weight, leading to the suggestion that a 'nibbling' meal pattern may help in the avoidance of obesity. A review of all pertinent studies shows that, although many fail to find any significant relationship, the relationship is consistently inverse in those that do observe a relationship. However, this finding is highly vulnerable to the probable confounding effects of post hoc changes in dietary patterns as a consequence of weight gain and to dietary under-reporting which undoubtedly invalidates some of the studies. We conclude that the epidemiological evidence is at best very weak, and almost certainly represents an artefact. A detailed review of the possible mechanistic explanations for a metabolic advantage of nibbling meal patterns failed to reveal significant benefits in respect of energy expenditure. Although some short-term studies suggest that the thermic effect of feeding is higher when an isoenergetic test load is divided into multiple small meals, other studies refute this, and most are neutral. More importantly, studies using whole-body calorimetry and doubly-labelled water to assess total 24 h energy expenditure find no difference between nibbling and gorging. Finally, with the exception of a single study, there is no evidence that weight loss on hypoenergetic regimens is altered by meal frequency. We conclude that any effects of meal pattern on the regulation of body weight are likely to be mediated through effects on the food intake side of the energy balance equation.
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 12:06:44
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samcim
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Integra
Lets not turn this into a who has the biggest e-penis debate.
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 12:06:49
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Nigeepoo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Integra
The debate has gone off in a different direction for some reason.
The OP posed the question "which would see the better results?". Would one see themselves become considerably fatter than the other? Or do timings have no impact on the lean mass/fat ratio of the additional weight? You didn't specify what you meant by "results".
Training without sufficient fuel catabolises muscle so it isn't good for body comp.
Extreme P/C/F macro splits e.g 10/80/10 (cereal diets) aren't good for body comp. Provided that there is sufficient protein & EFAs in the diet, the rest of the macros make diddly-squat difference to body comp. Provided that training is fuelled, meal timings make diddly-squat difference as well.
Appetite & health is a different matter. I over-eat if I eat too many carbs, therefore I keep my carb intake low. My serum lipids go haywire if I eat too many carbs, another good reason for me to keep my carb intake low.
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 12:08:17
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buzzer
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Thermogenesis in humans after varying meal time frequency]
[Article in German]
Wolfram G, Kirchgessner M, Muller HL, Hollomey S.
To a group of 8 healthy persons a slightly hypocaloric diet with protein (13% of energy), carbohydrates (46% of energy) and fat (41% of energy) was given as one meal or as five meals in a change-over trial. Each person was 2 weeks on each regimen. Under the conditions of slight undernutrition and neutral temperature the balances of nitrogen, carbon and energy were assessed in 7-day collection periods, and according to 48-hour measurements of gaseous exchange (carbon-nitrogen balance method) by the procedures of indirect calorimetry. Changes of body weight were statistically not significant. At isocaloric supply of metabolizable energy with exactly the same foods in different meal frequencies no differences were found in the retention of carbon and energy. Urinary nitrogen excretion was slightly greater with a single daily meal, indicating influences on protein metabolism. The protein-derived energy was compensated by a decrease in the fat oxidation. The heat production calculated by indirect calorimetry was not significantly different with either meal frequency. Water, sodium and potassium balances were not different. The plasma concentrations of cholesterol and uric acid were not influenced by meal frequency, glucose and triglycerides showed typical behaviour depending on the time interval to the last meal. The results demonstrate that the meal frequency did not influence the energy balance.
Meal frequency influences circulating hormone levels but not lipogenesis rates in humans.
Jones PJ, Namchuk GL, Pederson RA.
Division of Human Nutrition, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada.
To determine whether human lipogenesis is influenced by the frequency of meal consumption, 12 subjects were divided into two groups and fed isocaloric nutritionally adequate liquid diets over 3 days, either as three larger diurnal (n = 6) or as six small, evenly spaced (n = 6) meals per day. On day 2 (08:00 h) of each diet period, 0.7 g deuterium (D) oxide/kg body water was administered and blood was collected every 4 hours over 48 hours for measurement of plasma insulin and glucose-dependent insulinotropic polypeptide (GIP) levels. At each time point, the incorporation of D into plasma triglyceride fatty acid (TG-FA) was also determined by isotope ratio mass spectrometry after TG-FA extraction and combustion/reduction. Insulin and GIP levels were elevated over daytime periods in subjects fed three versus six meals per day. Contribution of de novo synthesis to total TG-FA production was not significantly different for days 2 and 3 in subjects consuming three (6.56% +/- 1.32% and 6.64% +/- 2.08%, respectively) and six (7.67% +/- 2.29% and 7.88% +/- 1.46%, respectively) meals per day. Net TG-FA synthesis rates over days 2 and 3 were 1.47 +/- 0.33 and 1.55 +/- 0.53 g/d, respectively, for subjects fed three meals per day, and 1.64 +/- 0.47 and 1.69 +/- 0.30 g/d for subjects fed six meals per day. These findings suggest that consuming fewer but larger daily meals is not accompanied by increases in TG-FA synthesis, despite the observation of hormonal peaks.
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RE: Timings - Overrated or Underrated? - Apr. 11 2008 12:10:36
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Nigeepoo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mick_the_brick
So your body is able to process/utilise the 1kg of beef eaten in one sitting?? Eventually (after a long snooze in my case! ), yes. It's a very long sitting. 
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