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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 11:51:15
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Greenranger
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kitty
Rather than post negative comments about those who may have weight issues get up and try to do something about it to help them.
Most sensible thing said so far in this ridiculous thread.
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 11:54:23
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kimith84
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The woman on the programme last night wasnt even fat.
She was a size 14 when the size of the average uk female is now a 16.
Sorry guys but this thread makes some of you's sound like cavemen.
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 11:57:01
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3-style
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kimith84
The woman on the programme last night wasnt even fat.
She was a size 14 when the size of the average uk female is now a 16.
Sorry guys but this thread makes some of you's sound like cavemen.
I understand your point, however I do feel averages with reference to 1 to Oberservational unit (i.e UK only) are a little worthless on the whole.
I think the UK has the largest obesity rates in Europe if memory serves.
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 11:58:27
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3-style
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Greenranger
quote:
ORIGINAL: kitty
Rather than post negative comments about those who may have weight issues get up and try to do something about it to help them.
Most sensible thing said so far in this ridiculous thread.
I agree Kitty, has brought forward some good points.. Calling the thread ridiculous though is IMO not justified as this thread has also brought forward some useful insights - I.e the original reason you posted, to commend 1 of them.
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 12:01:20
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Greenranger
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3-style
quote:
ORIGINAL: Greenranger
quote:
ORIGINAL: kitty
Rather than post negative comments about those who may have weight issues get up and try to do something about it to help them.
Most sensible thing said so far in this ridiculous thread.
I agree Kitty, has brought forward some good points.. Calling the thread ridiculous though is IMO not justified as this thread has also brought forward some useful insights - I.e the original reason you posted, to commend 1 of them.
Sorry i agree, calling it ridiculous was a bit far,
But some of the opinions on here just seem a bit that way IMO - especially considering how hard everyone on here
works to achieve a good body, i would've thought people would understand how hard you have to work to loose fat for example...
But we're all entitled to our opinions
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 12:01:37
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JingPuerh
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Chaos
quote:
ORIGINAL: MonkFinger
quote:
ORIGINAL: Chaos
I believe carrying some fat doesn't really impact your health greatly.
Great, so do I...
You have to be quite big and for quite a while before obesity affects your health adversly to be honest.
In fact, in women trying to conceive, being curvy/overweight is a distinct advantage where fertility is concerned! You might think a lot of female athletes look great but they probably have fertility issues due to their low bf% levels. In fact, at their level of leaness they may not even be having periods.
From the survival point of view this makes sense, it's better for the foetus - especially during lean times - if the mother has decent fat reserves.
Also, I count myself in that 'tiny' group of guys who likes their girls to be woman-shaped rather than pre-pubescent boy-shaped! I also like them to be happy in their own skin and confident - isn't that about the sexiest thing in a women? I mean, who wants to lie in bed with a bag of coat-hangers?
What I REALLY like about Gok's programme is that it tries to focus on the individual's self-esteem in a fairly holistic fashion. He tries to show them that appearance really is only skin-deep - the super-pants etc. are all a part of how he persuades these people to alter their own perception of their own body image. I mean to look at Hawking or maybe Mo Molem you'd hardly make much out of their physiques but does that invalidate their contributions to society? You might say, ah yes but being fat isn't something that happens to you (unlike Hawking's condition) but really, loads of people find this so, so very hard to change - as James has pointed out.
And, at least these people are trying to make a change for the better for themselves.
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 12:32:54
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Chaos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theiopener
quote:
ORIGINAL: Chaos
No mate you are missing my point. An obese human is unhealthy right...? Do humans need to be obese to survive?
No i think youre missing my point. Obesity is a term coined by modern society, someone classed as obese by modern society could survive in a different environment. Yes being chronically obese can carry health risks but i know of a few people who were overweight and havent suffered any ill effect health wise
anyway i can see you cant argue the point you originally stated so ill leave it at that
Maybe I will make myself a tad clearer to you then.
I don't have issues with people who have genetic problems which mean they cant lose weight. I do however believe the number of people who have these problems is very few. I also think a lot of people who cry about their weight are more like what thai fighter stated.
I was comparing humans to animals in that you dont see overweight animals or rarely do, yet about 50% of the people I see are overweight.
Then you start arguing that hippos carry a lot of fat. I don't despute that what I'm desputing is the fact that hippos are carrying fat in order to survive through the winter. Most humans are carrying fat because they are eating too much food, living comfortable lives etc.
I have no problem with people who are overweight if they accept that they are overweight through their own actions.
I have no problem with people who are overweight if they have genetic predispositions which prevent them losing weight.
I do have a problem with people who are overweight, who cry about being overweight while living very comfortable lives, eating lots of food never doing exercise etc. - I also believe most overweight people fall under this catergorie
< Message edited by Chaos -- Apr. 16 2008 12:34:10 >
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 12:39:25
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3-style
Posts: 1959
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Greenranger
Sorry i agree, calling it ridiculous was a bit far,
But some of the opinions on here just seem a bit that way IMO - especially considering how hard everyone on here
works to achieve a good body, i would've thought people would understand how hard you have to work to loose fat for example...
But we're all entitled to our opinions
Yes siry, opinion is the spice of life.
Elaborating from previous comments posted in this thread, I feel this thread would not have seen the light of day if indeed the program was renamed.
Also I do think that throwing a program like this amongst a forum where the search for body beautiful is underway and at various stages. Is akin to asking a novice gymnast to perform for a panel of judges where the bar is much higher than is merited for said skill levels.
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 12:42:16
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ThaiFighter
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quote:
ORIGINAL: James
quote:
ORIGINAL: Chaos
quote:
ORIGINAL: ThaiFighter
I don't think that blind confidence is something to be inspired.
You should be confident, because you know something that inspires you with confidence, that is TRUE.
If you don't look good naked....for whatever reason....believing you do is just silly.
If a person can't face reality, what hope have they for life in general?
Being out of shape = you don't look as good as someone who's in shape, when naked.
I think there's far too much talk about how society has placed unacceptable body images on women - when i think in general, the reverse is true. So much of society DOESN'T expect women to be in shape now, that it actively discourages women from doing anything about:
- eating badly
- not working out
If you DONT work out....you're hurting your body, and you're being unnatural, and it is unhealthy. That, as far as I can see it, is fact. Why? Because human's would have naturally exercised for hours a day in the wild. To sit on your arse all day is bad. If you look bad from it, that's an expectable consequence.
sums it up nicely. I agree 100%
I think lifestyles now are so confortable compared to what they were in the past. 99% of overweight people have only themselves to blame due to their lifestyle habits.
I disagree 100%
On MT we have a skewed perception - we all workout, and we all find it relatively easy to do so. For others it really is not for a multitude of reasons - sure some are lazy - some genuinely are not. For instance I had a lady in clinic just this morning - she follows my plans almost to the T, she plays netball twice a week, she swims once a week, and she does long 2-3 hour bike rides with her partner. Yet she struggles to lose weight.
I have other clients who have psychological issues in that it's hard for them to adhere to nutrition and exericse programs for reason which frankly, are beyond anything you guys will ever percieve.
I have opened MT up to people who are not interested in weight training now, and just want to discuss weight loss stratergies. I'll be damned if I'm going to let narrow mindedness on MT put them off from joining.
Guys, if someone starts offering crap training advice because basically, they are unqualified or inexperienced to do so, you all would agree 'don't post, coz you don't know what you're talking about'. The same applies here - you really do not know what you're talking about!
James, isn't it you who's said in the past that the body is just an energy in, energy out machine? i.e. if you want to lose weight, have a deficit, if you wanna gain it, have a surplus?
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 12:42:55
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James
Posts: 25001
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Integra
quote:
What seems to be the case?
It is usually open season on fat people on this website.
and I'm gonna stop it.....
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 12:45:12
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James
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ThaiFighter
James, isn't it you who's said in the past that the body is just an energy in, energy out machine? i.e. if you want to lose weight, have a deficit, if you wanna gain it, have a surplus?
Yep, that was me. But the relevance of asking me this is....?
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 12:52:40
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swift
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From: uknown
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quote:
ORIGINAL: James
quote:
ORIGINAL: ThaiFighter
James, isn't it you who's said in the past that the body is just an energy in, energy out machine? i.e. if you want to lose weight, have a deficit, if you wanna gain it, have a surplus?
Yep, that was me. But the relevance of asking me this is....?
well you have just said that you had a lady in the clinic who cant lose weight even though following your plan to a T.
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 12:57:00
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ThaiFighter
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quote:
ORIGINAL: James
quote:
ORIGINAL: ThaiFighter
James, isn't it you who's said in the past that the body is just an energy in, energy out machine? i.e. if you want to lose weight, have a deficit, if you wanna gain it, have a surplus?
Yep, that was me. But the relevance of asking me this is....?
You said previously that it's not so simple as making changes to your diet, and finding time to exercise, if you want to lose weight (as most of these women do).
If it is that simple, and the hindrance is just lifestyle - having a hectic schedule, not having personal knowledge - then why aren't these people to blame for the circumstances they find themselves in, and why shouldn't we just tell them to either change their body, or accept they don't look as good naked as someone who puts effort into their body?
I understand if someone has a hectic lifestyle and lacks food knowledge, but those two things could categorise 80% of England. I don't think I've ever met someone who takes exercise and diet seriously who didn't make massive sacrifices to do so - when we met, I think you had tubs of food on your desk, and I know I had them in a ruck sack so I didn't have to eat take-away on the drive.
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 13:05:07
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James
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quote:
ORIGINAL: swift
quote:
ORIGINAL: James
quote:
ORIGINAL: ThaiFighter
James, isn't it you who's said in the past that the body is just an energy in, energy out machine? i.e. if you want to lose weight, have a deficit, if you wanna gain it, have a surplus?
Yep, that was me. But the relevance of asking me this is....?
well you have just said that you had a lady in the clinic who cant lose weight even though following your plan to a T.
Yes, my point was in response to previous comments to my original post, that people find it hard, for reasons which are not black and white
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 13:08:07
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James
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ThaiFighter
You said previously that it's not so simple as making changes to your diet, and finding time to exercise, if you want to lose weight (as most of these women do).
If it is that simple, and the hindrance is just lifestyle - having a hectic schedule, not having personal knowledge - then why aren't these people to blame for the circumstances they find themselves in, and why shouldn't we just tell them to either change their body, or accept they don't look as good naked as someone who puts effort into their body?
I understand if someone has a hectic lifestyle and lacks food knowledge, but those two things could categorise 80% of England. I don't think I've ever met someone who takes exercise and diet seriously who didn't make massive sacrifices to do so - when we met, I think you had tubs of food on your desk, and I know I had them in a ruck sack so I didn't have to eat take-away on the drive.
Well, my point wasn't just about hectic lifestyle, but yes, I take your point. But some people have psychological issues, and it's not black and white.
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 13:12:35
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ThaiFighter
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quote:
ORIGINAL: James
quote:
ORIGINAL: ThaiFighter
You said previously that it's not so simple as making changes to your diet, and finding time to exercise, if you want to lose weight (as most of these women do).
If it is that simple, and the hindrance is just lifestyle - having a hectic schedule, not having personal knowledge - then why aren't these people to blame for the circumstances they find themselves in, and why shouldn't we just tell them to either change their body, or accept they don't look as good naked as someone who puts effort into their body?
I understand if someone has a hectic lifestyle and lacks food knowledge, but those two things could categorise 80% of England. I don't think I've ever met someone who takes exercise and diet seriously who didn't make massive sacrifices to do so - when we met, I think you had tubs of food on your desk, and I know I had them in a ruck sack so I didn't have to eat take-away on the drive.
Well, my point wasn't just about hectic lifestyle, but yes, I take your point. But some people have psychological issues, and it's not black and white.
I understand it could be pretty difficult, I know I still "reward" myself with food / drink on occasion and use it as a kind of prescription.
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 13:21:37
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Drago
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3-style
quote:
ORIGINAL: kimith84
The woman on the programme last night wasnt even fat.
She was a size 14 when the size of the average uk female is now a 16.
Sorry guys but this thread makes some of you's sound like cavemen.
I understand your point, however I do feel averages with reference to 1 to Oberservational unit (i.e UK only) are a little worthless on the whole.
I think the UK has the largest obesity rates in Europe if memory serves.
Doesnt this just say it all??
I didn't watch the show in question but have seen it alot before!
I agree with the posts that argue that people should be allowed to feel good with how they look naturally.
also, like James says some people just do not have the ability to lose weight(without drastic measures) due to their genetics.
Bodybuilders of all people should understand that genetics are not easily overcome!
On the other hand-
I do feel that there is a culture arising that seems to portray being fat/obese as OK or the Norm- i'm sorry if this offends some people but ITS NOT!
Its dangerous to your health for one thing and to some extent as ThaiFighter says it does go against our natural evolution as humans to pig out and sit on our arse all day.
Yes i am also a tool for the comments i make for people that are out of shape in my eyes!
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 13:27:07
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pauloduarte
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Well, my view of this programme is that it takes a woman, that has issues about the way they looked naked and the people in the programme try to improve this woman self confidence enough to feel good about theirselves. Its about as much as about psychology as well as physical.
If someone doesnt want to lose weight or cant there is nothing any of us can do to change their minds. As anything in life, until you do it out of your own accord then you will never stick to it.
If the programme helps the woman, in feeling more confortable with herself in the beach or in the bedroom with her partner then it is a good programme in my book. Most of these women will then take more pride on the way they look and probably pursue some kind of physical activity that might help them lose weight, but even if they dont, if they feel better than who are us to judge.
The opinions on this thread, or some to be precise, sound to me very sexist. We are part of a community of "bodybuilders" these are men and women that off season, some, look like they have doubled in size and thus look obese, but I dont see anyone complaining about how they look. Also Strongman competitors dont look necessarily like bodyduilders, some exceptions apply, but if one of those guys wanted to look better naked, will you all start telling him to go and lose weight and do exercise?
We should all take a good look at ourselves before we comment on certain issues. The old saying goes "those who havent sinned throw the first stone"
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 13:50:55
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ThaiFighter
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pauloduarte
We should all take a good look at ourselves before we comment on certain issues. The old saying goes "those who havent sinned throw the first stone"
This is actually true. I used to be a chubby kid before I got into working out and Muay Thai and stuff like that.
Now I'm very hard on myself if I work out less than 3 days a week...but occasionally still have issues with food in terms of using it in a drug like fashion.
I feel though, that because I have been so hard on myself - in terms of facing reality (i.e. if you eat cookies all the time, I will look like crap, if I don't work out regularly, my body will become weaker and less fit) - that other people should do the same thing.
I think that, when I was a kid, if people said "ahh, you're a chubby ****er but it's ok, it's whats on the inside that counts", that I would have been very hard done by. It's only because I faced reality that I started to improve myself - and this effort improved my life in general. If I was still fat, I probably would never have started going out with my gf, who is now my fiance, because she's very attractive and I wouldn't have been. I also wouldn't be able to do the hours I do now, without feeling bad and probably eating more junk food, since I wouldn't have the physical capacity to do it.
The saying's correct, but the motivation is more "we've been through it too, and because of that we [think] we know best". In terms of having been an unfit person before, the best thing for me was to face reality and start that hard road.
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RE: How to look good naked - Apr. 16 2008 13:56:18
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pauloduarte
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That is my point exactly. I was like that as well, when I got to England almost 16 years ago I was almost 18 stone in weight and I finally had the guts to go and sort myself out. But it was me, not other people pushing me into it that made me stick to it.
Now eventhough I was fat and chubby, I wanted to look dressed and naked, if someone came along and said to me, I am going to give you a few tips to look better, the way you are at the moment, i would have taken it, as I did, although my ultimate goal was to feel good about myself in no matter what situation I was in.
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