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Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 22 2008 15:46:38
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Chris M
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Hey guys,
I've been wondering lately what the difference is between the two above and partially hydrogenated fats.
In particular, if a food source is advertised as "hydrogenated fat free" does that mean it is trans fat free?
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 22 2008 15:54:12
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wallace9
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I thought they were one and the same.
Might be wrong though
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 22 2008 15:56:48
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Chris M
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wallace9
I thought they were one and the same.
Might be wrong though
I'm not convinced, my understanding is a hydrogenated oil may contain trans fats. Hence my question, if I'm eating soemthign advertised as "hydrogenated fat free" can I be comfortable I'm not eating unexpected damaged fats.
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 22 2008 16:19:52
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wallace9
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I had a wee search on google there. Its hard to find a definative answer.
It looks to me like trans fats are part of hydroginated fat/oil and therefore if a product is labled as "hydroginatyed fat free" then it should be trans fat free too.
Again I might have miss interperated something there as I don't really have time to look to deeply into it just now.
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 22 2008 16:23:37
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Tony Barnes
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Fully Hydrogenated = all double carbon bonds in fat "removed" such that the fat is fully saturated with hydrogen
Partially Hydrogenated = some double carbon bonds in fat "removed" such that fat is more saturated with hydrogen than previously
Trans-fat = fat where the "cis" formation has been disturbed - i.e. there has been rotation around 1 or more double carbon bond, so the fat is "bent the wrong way"
The hydrogenation process causes trans fat formation. Fully hydrogenated fat in theory can't have trans fats, as a fully saturated fatty tail is straight. Cooking with any unsaturated fat will make trans-fats - the more unsaturated, the quicker they will form, and the more total you will get. This is because the "pi" bond on double carbons, though incredible tough, will be overcome at a certain temperature and allow them to spin.
Additional problems occur with the processing of cheap vegetable oils, so you get cyclised, dimerised, polymerised, etc, fats, that your body also isn't set up to deal with.
Long story short - if it says "veg oil" high up in the ingredients list, don't eat it. If it say "partially hydrogenated fats" - really don't eat it.
If you are eating a processed food, the higher the % saturated/mono the better, as they are harder to damage than polys. If you are eating a raw or unprocessed food, aim for higher polys.
Hope that makes a teeny bit of sense - bit of a rush to put it in easier terminology!!
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 22 2008 16:33:03
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wallace9
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good post tony. cheers
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 22 2008 16:38:50
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richsINS
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tony Barnes
Fully Hydrogenated = all double carbon bonds in fat "removed" such that the fat is fully saturated with hydrogen
Partially Hydrogenated = some double carbon bonds in fat "removed" such that fat is more saturated with hydrogen than previously
Trans-fat = fat where the "cis" formation has been disturbed - i.e. there has been rotation around 1 or more double carbon bond, so the fat is "bent the wrong way"
The hydrogenation process causes trans fat formation. Fully hydrogenated fat in theory can't have trans fats, as a fully saturated fatty tail is straight. Cooking with any unsaturated fat will make trans-fats - the more unsaturated, the quicker they will form, and the more total you will get. This is because the "pi" bond on double carbons, though incredible tough, will be overcome at a certain temperature and allow them to spin.
Additional problems occur with the processing of cheap vegetable oils, so you get cyclised, dimerised, polymerised, etc, fats, that your body also isn't set up to deal with.
Long story short - if it says "veg oil" high up in the ingredients list, don't eat it. If it say "partially hydrogenated fats" - really don't eat it.
If you are eating a processed food, the higher the % saturated/mono the better, as they are harder to damage than polys. If you are eating a raw or unprocessed food, aim for higher polys.
Hope that makes a teeny bit of sense - bit of a rush to put it in easier terminology!!
Weee awesome post.
I didnt think "VEG OIL" was bad, i actually just thought hydogenated or trans were ones to avoid.
Veg oil is in a tonne of products, such as "ainsleys harriots cous cous" and thousands of other products.
What about sunflower oil, its found in alot of "low fat" or "extra light" products.
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 22 2008 17:12:29
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Tony Barnes
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Yep - by and large you want to avoid any vegetable oils in processed foods, they can't be trusted, and should represent as small a part of your daily cals as poss.
Day to day, it's pretty impossible to do this perfectly - however, if you try to avoid the majority of them, whilst retaining sanity of foods you eat, then you're on to a winner. As per earlier post, look to find them as close to the bottom of an ingredient list as possible
EDIT: - glad original post made some sense too...  
< Message edited by Tony Barnes -- Apr. 22 2008 17:13:04 >
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 22 2008 17:20:40
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Jamesw
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does the ingredient list list them in quantity order then? didnt know this
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 22 2008 17:25:22
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Tony Barnes
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Yep, by law on all foods and food supplements, descending order
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 22 2008 18:06:54
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Eric Marks
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If you cook with virgin olive oil will it turn to trans fats
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 22 2008 19:24:39
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Chris M
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Thanks for the detailed replied Tony - much appreciated.
Perhaps someone can confirm what I suspect... I've been cutting recently and have been using ASDA Delight (Angel Delight) to help curb chocolate cravings. The ASDA Delight packet says "Great Stuff Guarantee - NO hydrogenated fat" but it lists vegtable oil as the 3rd ingredient. Am I destined to have to stop eating this as it will likely contain trans-fat even though ASDA are clearly putting their healthy spin on it?
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 22 2008 20:00:40
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BUFF STUFF
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eric Marks
If you cook with virgin olive oil will it turn to trans fats
bump
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 22 2008 23:02:27
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Nigeepoo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BUFF STUFF
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eric Marks
If you cook with virgin olive oil will it turn to trans fats bump Maybe. I don't know for sure. Olive Oil is mostly mono fat (oleic acid) which is fairly stable.
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 23 2008 8:50:09
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Tony Barnes
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It will Nige, just less.
A fat is held in it's bent configuration by the double bonded carbon atoms. Day to day, whilst all the single bonded ones spin around on their axis, the double ones scarcely shift because of the energy required to overcome the pi aspect. Stick in enough heat and it will spin. The total amount of transfat at any given time will be the result of an equation that balances the amount of fat that has remained cis, the amount that has gone trans, an the amount that has gone trans but returned to cis. Someone with a good organic chemistry background may be able to help us there!!
Anyway, the less double bonds there are in the fat being heated, the lower the chance of it ending up a transfat, so although olive oil will turn a bit, it is less offendable than more unsaturated oils like sunflower, and far less than a fish oil (taken out of a fish - if the fish it's held in a membrane, i.e. cooking a fish, this kind of rotation isn't gonna be possible/far harder to achieve). The lower amount of double bonds available to oxidise back up the benefits of cooking with more saturated oils.
Chris - what is the amount of fat in the product? Are there any other fat sources in the ingredients? If it looks like all the fat comes from veg oil, and it's a few g per serve, not great. It's likely that it would be better to not eat it as a regular thing, but have more as an occasional treat. Also, it' not just trans fats, it's all the other damaged ones that can be in there.
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 24 2008 13:58:12
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James
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Bloody brilliant info there Tony
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 24 2008 14:16:31
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Tony Barnes
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Thanks 
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 24 2008 14:24:48
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richsINS
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So my ST Ivel gold extra light, or flora extra light isnt to great and shouldnt be cooked with in general?
SO what should we be cooking with, up untill now i've used 'spray extra virgin olive oil" and 'spray sunflower oil' neither seem to be good for that?
Thats unfortunate if so, as flora extra light 20g tastes great in scrambled egg(heated enough to scramble eggs of course) for around 40calories, as opposed to butter which would be 180 
Saying that, i dont actually cook with any oil often but when i do, i use the above sprays.
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 24 2008 14:32:17
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Tony Barnes
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I cook with either unsalted butter or virgin/extra virgin olive oil. Given the choice, I'd use coconut oil, but it ain't cheap, and Jess didn't like it when I brought a sample home to try.
There is little good to be said about any spread before cooking with them, so no, I wouldn't recommend for cooking.
The sprays, though I hate them, do carry one advantage over other damaged cooking oils - you use bugger all, so total amount of damaged fats is kept low. However, this then means you have to make up for extra fats elsewhere in diet, and when fat level in food is low, fat soluble vitamin absorption is gonna be lower too.
For scrambled eggs (which I have every lunch time here at work), I use 30-50g of Lurpak unsalted butter, depending on what rest of days eating/activity is gonna pan out like - tastes absolutely amazing
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RE: Hydrogenated fats vs Trans Fat - Apr. 24 2008 14:38:36
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richsINS
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tony Barnes
I cook with either unsalted butter or virgin/extra virgin olive oil. Given the choice, I'd use coconut oil, but it ain't cheap, and Jess didn't like it when I brought a sample home to try.
There is little good to be said about any spread before cooking with them, so no, I wouldn't recommend for cooking.
The sprays, though I hate them, do carry one advantage over other damaged cooking oils - you use bugger all, so total amount of damaged fats is kept low. However, this then means you have to make up for extra fats elsewhere in diet, and when fat level in food is low, fat soluble vitamin absorption is gonna be lower too.
For scrambled eggs (which I have every lunch time here at work), I use 30-50g of Lurpak unsalted butter, depending on what rest of days eating/activity is gonna pan out like - tastes absolutely amazing
[Yeah, cutting with 30-50g (200-300kcals) just on butter is a tough task. That means id be living on celery to curb hunger  /color]
Ok so i just go easy with the olive oil when heating it i guess, my diet in general is actually pretty low on fat ~40 according to my rather obsessive calorie counting records and thats including all fat sources(In the veggies, chicken, breads, jelly, sauces, whatever i eat).
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