MuscleTalk Bodybuilding Forum
Forums  Register  Login  My Profile  My Subscription  My Forums  Member List  Search  FAQ  Ticket List  Help MT  Log Out
Sponsor Message
MuscleTalk Publications
Packed With Recipes...

Muscle Menus
Bodybuilding supplements at MuscleTalk Shop
Pain killers stunt muscle growth?
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)
Logged in as: Guest (JOIN FREE)
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Nutrition] >> Diet & Nutrition >> Pain killers stunt muscle growth? Page: [1]
Sponsored by: BodyShapers Fitness - A wide range of bodybuilding supplements at low prices with FREE UK delivery.
Bookmark this thread:
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 24 2008 21:34:21   
paul80


Posts: 167
Joined: Oct. 13 2007
From: Kent. U.K.
Status: offline
Anyone know if ibrobufen has any effect on the growth of muscle?

_____________________________

ex 3 PARA
Post #: 1
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 24 2008 21:58:57   
carl19


Posts: 2889
Joined: Sep. 24 2006
Status: online
dont know but cant imagine a normal dose would

hwever high doses could possibly have an effct

_____________________________

THE MAKE OR BREAK stay Natty or Not JOURNAL


(in reply to paul80)
Post #: 2
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 0:48:04   
David Barr


Posts: 112
Joined: Apr. 24 2008
From: Toronto and Los Angeles
Status: offline
Unfortunately maximal doses can transiently abolish the growth and recovery effect following training (Trappe et al. 02).

Carl is right, it would be interesting to see how the effect scaled with dosage.

Pain Free>>PGF2a

_____________________________

The Anabolic Index is HERE!

(in reply to paul80)
Post #: 3
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 13:45:33   
James


Posts: 25355
Joined: Nov. 10 2000
From: healthyaction.co.uk
Status: online
Hi David - good to see you've joined and are posting

Your comment at the bottom about PGF2a - what do you mean? Is it available as a tonic? You are referring to prostaglandin F2 alpha, are you? as in the one responsible for labour?

I'm interested to learn more

(in reply to David Barr)
Post #: 4
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 13:48:38   
Tomazi8


Posts: 3591
Joined: Nov. 12 2006
From: NW
Status: online
im sure ive read previously it has a postive effect on muscle growth

_____________________________

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/fb.asp?m=2868550

strenght training journal, with a bit of wacky circuit stuff thrown in.

In fifty years, would people of our age still call it
licking the proverbial stainless steel duck?

(in reply to James)
Post #: 5
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 13:50:47   
Tomazi8


Posts: 3591
Joined: Nov. 12 2006
From: NW
Status: online
quote:

Over-The-Counter Pain Killers Increase Muscle Mass PDF Print E-mail
Written by Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology
Monday, 07 April 2008

ScienceDaily (Apr. 7, 2008) - Taking daily recommended dosages of ibuprofen and acetaminophen caused a substantially greater increase over placebo in the amount of quadriceps muscle mass and muscle strength gained during three months of regular weight lifting, in a study by physiologists at the Human Performance Laboratory, Ball State University.

Thirty-six men and women, between 60 and 78 years of age (average age 65), were randomly assigned to daily dosages of either ibuprofen (such as that in Advil), acetaminophen (such as that in Tylenol), or a placebo. The dosages were identical to those recommended by the manufacturers and were selected to most closely mimic what chronic users of these medicines were likely to be taking. Neither the volunteers nor the scientists knew who was receiving which treatment until the end of the study.

All subjects participated in three months of weight training, 15-20 minute sessions conducted in the Human Performance Laboratory three times per week. The researchers knew from their own and other studies that training at this intensity and for this time period would significantly increase muscle mass and strength. They expected the placebo group to show such increases, as its members did, but they were surprised to find that the groups using either ibuprofen or acetaminophen did even better.

An earlier study from the laboratory, measuring muscle metabolism (or more precisely, muscle protein synthesis, the mechanism through which new protein is added to muscle), had looked at changes over a 24 hour period. This "acute" study found that both ibuprofen and acetaminophen had a negative impact, by blocking a specific enzyme cyclooxygenase, commonly referred to as COX.

But that study looked at only one day. Over three months, says Dr. Trappe, the chronic consumption of ibuprofen or acetaminophen during resistance training appears to have induced intramuscular changes that enhance the metabolic response to resistance exercise, allowing the body to add substantially more new protein to muscle.

The amount of change was measured in quadricep muscles using Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI), the gold standard for determining muscle mass. The researchers now are conducting assays of muscle biopsies taken before and after the three-month period of resistance training, in order to understand the metabolic mechanism of the positive effects of ibuprofen and acetaminophen.

One of the foci of Ball State's Human Performance Laboratory is the adaptation of the elderly to exercise. Another is the loss of muscle mass that takes place when astronauts are exposed to long-term weightlessness. This work has implications for both groups, says Dr. Trappe.

*This presentation was part of the scientific program of the American Physiological Society (APS). In addition to Dr. Carroll and Dr. Trappe, co-authors of the Experimental Biology presentation are Jared Dickinson, Jennifer Lemoine, Jacob Haus, and Eileen Weinheimer, graduate students working with Dr. Trappe, and study physician Dr. Christopher Hollon.

Funding for the research came from the National Institutes of Health and a postdoctoral initiative award from APS.

Adapted from materials provided by Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology, via EurekAlert!, a service of AAAS.


Taken from MD online

_____________________________

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/fb.asp?m=2868550

strenght training journal, with a bit of wacky circuit stuff thrown in.

In fifty years, would people of our age still call it
licking the proverbial stainless steel duck?

(in reply to paul80)
Post #: 6
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 14:29:25   
Tony Barnes


Posts: 5902
Joined: Oct. 7 2004
From: Leeds
Status: offline
I had a bit of a google around this topic earlier after reading this - suggested bad things for NSAID's for muscle growth recovery. I'm (finally) having another rheumo appointment in June, so will speak to the doc about my situation - diclofenac twice a frigging day until I drop...

(in reply to Tomazi8)
Post #: 7
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 16:26:33   
carl19


Posts: 2889
Joined: Sep. 24 2006
Status: online
while were on the topic, do any other drugs effect muscle growth??

im on anti biotics...

_____________________________

THE MAKE OR BREAK stay Natty or Not JOURNAL


(in reply to Tony Barnes)
Post #: 8
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 17:45:23   
Nigeepoo


Posts: 4763
Joined: Nov. 29 2002
From: Yateley, Hants, United Kingdom
Status: offline
What sort?

_____________________________

Eggs Article
Fats Article
My MySpace page with e-book and much, much more
Where are the Omega-3 fats?

(in reply to carl19)
Post #: 9
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 19:14:55   
David Barr


Posts: 112
Joined: Apr. 24 2008
From: Toronto and Los Angeles
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: James

Hi David - good to see you've joined and are posting


Thanks! It's great to be here!
quote:



Your comment at the bottom about PGF2a - what do you mean? Is it available as a tonic?

You are referring to prostaglandin F2 alpha, are you? as in the one responsible for labour?

Good call James, you're exactly right. I believe it's only available for injection right now (and it's quite unpleasant from what I've heard).

quote:


I'm interested to learn more


This prostaglandin is responsible for stimulation of satellite cell proliferation (division), which basically means that we need it for growth and repair. If the NSAIDS inhibit PGF2a, then it should hinder muscle growth.

But there are several important questions that remain:

How long does the effect last?
How does nutritional intervention affect the pharmaceutical inhibition?
To what extent does the inhibition occur at lower doses?

After I talk I gave about The Anabolic Index, in which this anti-anabolic effect was mentioned, I had someone approach me who had been using high doses of ibuprofen for years. He claimed that he still grew like a weed and he hadn't noticed any negative effects at all.

I'm looking forward to seeing where the future research goes.


_____________________________

The Anabolic Index is HERE!

(in reply to James)
Post #: 10
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 19:19:20   
David Barr


Posts: 112
Joined: Apr. 24 2008
From: Toronto and Los Angeles
Status: offline
Tomazi this is great information!
As usual, we can take everything we know about healthy adults and throw it in the garbage when it comes to the elderly.

How great would it be if NSAIDS worked for us as well!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomazi8

ScienceDaily (Apr. 7, 2008) - Taking daily recommended dosages of ibuprofen and acetaminophen caused a substantially greater increase over placebo in the amount of quadriceps muscle mass and muscle strength gained during three months of regular weight lifting, in a study by physiologists at the Human Performance Laboratory, Ball State University.



_____________________________

The Anabolic Index is HERE!

(in reply to Tomazi8)
Post #: 11
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 19:26:39   
David Barr


Posts: 112
Joined: Apr. 24 2008
From: Toronto and Los Angeles
Status: offline
Alcohol (ethanol) is also anti-anabolic. It actually scores a negative 3 on The Anabolic Index.

Fortunately most antibiotics focus on microbial replication, which should have no direct impact on our muscle growth.

This is in contrast to the Anabolic Reference Guide from 1990 that claimed Tetracycline to be an inhibitor of muscle protein synthesis.

quote:

ORIGINAL: carl19

while were on the topic, do any other drugs effect muscle growth??

im on anti biotics...



_____________________________

The Anabolic Index is HERE!

(in reply to carl19)
Post #: 12
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 19:43:11   
Nigeepoo


Posts: 4763
Joined: Nov. 29 2002
From: Yateley, Hants, United Kingdom
Status: offline
Does adaptation occur in that if substance "X" suppresses bodily process "Y" then, when substance "X" wears off, bodily process "Y" rebounds to a higher than normal level such that the average value of bodily process "Y" remains constant?

EDIT: And vice-versa for substance "X" increasing bodily process "Y".

< Message edited by Nigeepoo -- Apr. 25 2008 19:45:37 >


_____________________________

Eggs Article
Fats Article
My MySpace page with e-book and much, much more
Where are the Omega-3 fats?

(in reply to David Barr)
Post #: 13
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 26 2008 0:54:51   
FatboyGinger


Posts: 1071
Joined: Jan. 20 2008
From: Manchester!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Barr

Alcohol (ethanol) is also anti-anabolic. It actually scores a negative 3 on The Anabolic Index.

Fortunately most antibiotics focus on microbial replication, which should have no direct impact on our muscle growth.

This is in contrast to the Anabolic Reference Guide from 1990 that claimed Tetracycline to be an inhibitor of muscle protein synthesis.

quote:

ORIGINAL: carl19

while were on the topic, do any other drugs effect muscle growth??

im on anti biotics...




Hello David
Welcome to MT


I've just read that ^^ -been on some sort on Tetracycline for the past couple of years. I've definitely heard ibuprofen blunts protein synthesis.

_____________________________

Pics of me-17/07/08
Whey protein, liquid egg white, Glutamine, Taurine, BCAAs, Powder oats, Mono, CEE, GABA, AAKG, Multi Vit, Fish Oil,Vit B5,Vit C,Melatonin, Ephedrine, Nicotine Gum, Beta Alan

(in reply to David Barr)
Post #: 14
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 26 2008 2:59:30   
David Barr


Posts: 112
Joined: Apr. 24 2008
From: Toronto and Los Angeles
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nigeepoo

Does adaptation occur in that if substance "X" suppresses bodily process "Y" then, when substance "X" wears off, bodily process "Y" rebounds to a higher than normal level such that the average value of bodily process "Y" remains constant?

EDIT: And vice-versa for substance "X" increasing bodily process "Y".


That's a great line of thinking Nigeepoo!
A negative feedback system (or something similar) would be yet another type of regulation to dissect. Applying this to PGF2 in this case... I wonder.

_____________________________

The Anabolic Index is HERE!

(in reply to Nigeepoo)
Post #: 15
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 26 2008 3:02:20   
David Barr


Posts: 112
Joined: Apr. 24 2008
From: Toronto and Los Angeles
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatboyGinger


Hello David
Welcome to MT


Thanks I appreciate that!
quote:



I've just read that ^^ -been on some sort on Tetracycline for the past couple of years. I've definitely heard ibuprofen blunts protein synthesis.


I was pretty red-faced after telling all of my friends to get off of tetracycline because I read it in that Steroid book, only to learn how it really works in microbiology class.


_____________________________

The Anabolic Index is HERE!

(in reply to FatboyGinger)
Post #: 16
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 26 2008 10:50:25   
Nigeepoo


Posts: 4763
Joined: Nov. 29 2002
From: Yateley, Hants, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Barr
That's a great line of thinking Nigeepoo!
A negative feedback system (or something similar) would be yet another type of regulation to dissect. Applying this to PGF2 in this case... I wonder.
As a former Electronic Engineer, I see Negative FeedBack (NFB) loops everywhere in the body. There's Blood Glucose regulation with insulin/glucagon/cortisol/adrenaline/GH (I go into NFB loop operation in my article).

Then there are the HPX Axes, where X is Thyroid, Testicular/Ovarian, Adrenal etc. There's ADH, PTH and a whole load of other feedback loops that I haven't learned about yet. Just about every metabolic process is a multiple step NFB as enzymes are down-regulated by the products of their own activities.

As I have The Metabolic Syndrome as well as a broken Pituitary, I've done a lot of study into metabolic pathways and have J Salway's book on the subject.

_____________________________

Eggs Article
Fats Article
My MySpace page with e-book and much, much more
Where are the Omega-3 fats?

(in reply to David Barr)
Post #: 17
RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 27 2008 19:48:45   
James


Posts: 25355
Joined: Nov. 10 2000
From: healthyaction.co.uk
Status: online
Thanks for the thoughts David. You're right about PGF2a, just nver considered it in this way.


_____________________________

James Collier - Co-Owner & Head Moderator



(in reply to Nigeepoo)
Post #: 18
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Nutrition] >> Diet & Nutrition >> Pain killers stunt muscle growth? Page: [1]
Jump to:

Google
 
Webwww.MuscleTalk.co.uk


New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages

Muscle Building Nutrition
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition