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Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 24 2008 21:34:21
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paul80
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Anyone know if ibrobufen has any effect on the growth of muscle?
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 24 2008 21:58:57
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carl19
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dont know but cant imagine a normal dose would hwever high doses could possibly have an effct
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 0:48:04
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David Barr
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Unfortunately maximal doses can transiently abolish the growth and recovery effect following training (Trappe et al. 02). Carl is right, it would be interesting to see how the effect scaled with dosage. Pain Free>>PGF2a
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 13:45:33
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James
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Hi David - good to see you've joined and are posting Your comment at the bottom about PGF2a - what do you mean? Is it available as a tonic? You are referring to prostaglandin F2 alpha, are you? as in the one responsible for labour? I'm interested to learn more
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 13:48:38
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Tomazi8
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im sure ive read previously it has a postive effect on muscle growth
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 13:50:47
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Tomazi8
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quote:
Over-The-Counter Pain Killers Increase Muscle Mass PDF Print E-mail Written by Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology Monday, 07 April 2008 ScienceDaily (Apr. 7, 2008) - Taking daily recommended dosages of ibuprofen and acetaminophen caused a substantially greater increase over placebo in the amount of quadriceps muscle mass and muscle strength gained during three months of regular weight lifting, in a study by physiologists at the Human Performance Laboratory, Ball State University. Thirty-six men and women, between 60 and 78 years of age (average age 65), were randomly assigned to daily dosages of either ibuprofen (such as that in Advil), acetaminophen (such as that in Tylenol), or a placebo. The dosages were identical to those recommended by the manufacturers and were selected to most closely mimic what chronic users of these medicines were likely to be taking. Neither the volunteers nor the scientists knew who was receiving which treatment until the end of the study. All subjects participated in three months of weight training, 15-20 minute sessions conducted in the Human Performance Laboratory three times per week. The researchers knew from their own and other studies that training at this intensity and for this time period would significantly increase muscle mass and strength. They expected the placebo group to show such increases, as its members did, but they were surprised to find that the groups using either ibuprofen or acetaminophen did even better. An earlier study from the laboratory, measuring muscle metabolism (or more precisely, muscle protein synthesis, the mechanism through which new protein is added to muscle), had looked at changes over a 24 hour period. This "acute" study found that both ibuprofen and acetaminophen had a negative impact, by blocking a specific enzyme cyclooxygenase, commonly referred to as COX. But that study looked at only one day. Over three months, says Dr. Trappe, the chronic consumption of ibuprofen or acetaminophen during resistance training appears to have induced intramuscular changes that enhance the metabolic response to resistance exercise, allowing the body to add substantially more new protein to muscle. The amount of change was measured in quadricep muscles using Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI), the gold standard for determining muscle mass. The researchers now are conducting assays of muscle biopsies taken before and after the three-month period of resistance training, in order to understand the metabolic mechanism of the positive effects of ibuprofen and acetaminophen. One of the foci of Ball State's Human Performance Laboratory is the adaptation of the elderly to exercise. Another is the loss of muscle mass that takes place when astronauts are exposed to long-term weightlessness. This work has implications for both groups, says Dr. Trappe. *This presentation was part of the scientific program of the American Physiological Society (APS). In addition to Dr. Carroll and Dr. Trappe, co-authors of the Experimental Biology presentation are Jared Dickinson, Jennifer Lemoine, Jacob Haus, and Eileen Weinheimer, graduate students working with Dr. Trappe, and study physician Dr. Christopher Hollon. Funding for the research came from the National Institutes of Health and a postdoctoral initiative award from APS. Adapted from materials provided by Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology, via EurekAlert!, a service of AAAS. Taken from MD online
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 14:29:25
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Tony Barnes
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I had a bit of a google around this topic earlier after reading this - suggested bad things for NSAID's for muscle growth recovery. I'm (finally) having another rheumo appointment in June, so will speak to the doc about my situation - diclofenac twice a frigging day until I drop...
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 16:26:33
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carl19
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while were on the topic, do any other drugs effect muscle growth?? im on anti biotics...
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 19:14:55
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David Barr
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quote:
ORIGINAL: James Hi David - good to see you've joined and are posting Thanks! It's great to be here!quote:
Your comment at the bottom about PGF2a - what do you mean? Is it available as a tonic? You are referring to prostaglandin F2 alpha, are you? as in the one responsible for labour? Good call James, you're exactly right. I believe it's only available for injection right now (and it's quite unpleasant from what I've heard). quote:
I'm interested to learn more This prostaglandin is responsible for stimulation of satellite cell proliferation (division), which basically means that we need it for growth and repair. If the NSAIDS inhibit PGF2a, then it should hinder muscle growth. But there are several important questions that remain: How long does the effect last? How does nutritional intervention affect the pharmaceutical inhibition? To what extent does the inhibition occur at lower doses? After I talk I gave about The Anabolic Index, in which this anti-anabolic effect was mentioned, I had someone approach me who had been using high doses of ibuprofen for years. He claimed that he still grew like a weed and he hadn't noticed any negative effects at all. I'm looking forward to seeing where the future research goes.
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 19:19:20
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David Barr
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Tomazi this is great information! As usual, we can take everything we know about healthy adults and throw it in the garbage when it comes to the elderly. How great would it be if NSAIDS worked for us as well! quote:
ORIGINAL: Tomazi8 ScienceDaily (Apr. 7, 2008) - Taking daily recommended dosages of ibuprofen and acetaminophen caused a substantially greater increase over placebo in the amount of quadriceps muscle mass and muscle strength gained during three months of regular weight lifting, in a study by physiologists at the Human Performance Laboratory, Ball State University.
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 19:26:39
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David Barr
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Alcohol (ethanol) is also anti-anabolic. It actually scores a negative 3 on The Anabolic Index. Fortunately most antibiotics focus on microbial replication, which should have no direct impact on our muscle growth. This is in contrast to the Anabolic Reference Guide from 1990 that claimed Tetracycline to be an inhibitor of muscle protein synthesis. quote:
ORIGINAL: carl19 while were on the topic, do any other drugs effect muscle growth?? im on anti biotics...
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 25 2008 19:43:11
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Nigeepoo
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Does adaptation occur in that if substance "X" suppresses bodily process "Y" then, when substance "X" wears off, bodily process "Y" rebounds to a higher than normal level such that the average value of bodily process "Y" remains constant? EDIT: And vice-versa for substance "X" increasing bodily process "Y".
< Message edited by Nigeepoo -- Apr. 25 2008 19:45:37 >
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 26 2008 0:54:51
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FatboyGinger
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quote:
ORIGINAL: David Barr Alcohol (ethanol) is also anti-anabolic. It actually scores a negative 3 on The Anabolic Index. Fortunately most antibiotics focus on microbial replication, which should have no direct impact on our muscle growth. This is in contrast to the Anabolic Reference Guide from 1990 that claimed Tetracycline to be an inhibitor of muscle protein synthesis. quote:
ORIGINAL: carl19 while were on the topic, do any other drugs effect muscle growth?? im on anti biotics... Hello David Welcome to MT I've just read that ^^ -been on some sort on Tetracycline for the past couple of years. I've definitely heard ibuprofen blunts protein synthesis.
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 26 2008 2:59:30
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David Barr
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Nigeepoo Does adaptation occur in that if substance "X" suppresses bodily process "Y" then, when substance "X" wears off, bodily process "Y" rebounds to a higher than normal level such that the average value of bodily process "Y" remains constant? EDIT: And vice-versa for substance "X" increasing bodily process "Y". That's a great line of thinking Nigeepoo! A negative feedback system (or something similar) would be yet another type of regulation to dissect. Applying this to PGF2 in this case... I wonder.
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 26 2008 3:02:20
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David Barr
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FatboyGinger Hello David Welcome to MT Thanks I appreciate that! quote:
I've just read that ^^ -been on some sort on Tetracycline for the past couple of years. I've definitely heard ibuprofen blunts protein synthesis. I was pretty red-faced after telling all of my friends to get off of tetracycline because I read it in that Steroid book, only to learn how it really works in microbiology class.
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 26 2008 10:50:25
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Nigeepoo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: David Barr That's a great line of thinking Nigeepoo! A negative feedback system (or something similar) would be yet another type of regulation to dissect. Applying this to PGF2 in this case... I wonder. As a former Electronic Engineer, I see Negative FeedBack (NFB) loops everywhere in the body. There's Blood Glucose regulation with insulin/glucagon/cortisol/adrenaline/GH (I go into NFB loop operation in my article). Then there are the HPX Axes, where X is Thyroid, Testicular/Ovarian, Adrenal etc. There's ADH, PTH and a whole load of other feedback loops that I haven't learned about yet. Just about every metabolic process is a multiple step NFB as enzymes are down-regulated by the products of their own activities. As I have The Metabolic Syndrome as well as a broken Pituitary, I've done a lot of study into metabolic pathways and have J Salway's book on the subject.
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RE: Pain killers stunt muscle growth? - Apr. 27 2008 19:48:45
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James
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Thanks for the thoughts David. You're right about PGF2a, just nver considered it in this way.
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