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[Poll]
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Who will you vote for London Mayor
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| Ken Livingstone (Labour Party) |
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| Boris Johnstone (Conservative) |
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| Brian Paddick (Lib Dem) |
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| Sian Berry (Green Party) |
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| Alan Craig (Christian Choice) |
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| Matt O'Conor (English Democrats) |
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| Lindsey German (Left List) |
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| Gerard Batton (UK Independence Party) |
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| Richard Barnbrook (British National Party) |
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| Winston McKenzie (Independent) |
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Total Votes : 64
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(last vote on : May 3 2008 22:48:58)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - Apr. 28 2008 0:18:06
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gunshow3000
Posts: 20
Joined: Dec. 4 2005
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I dont think voting BNP will do anything about immigration or how immigrants are treated in London. Its a global thing. A few million immigrants is an exchange for cheap natural resources, cheap labour, cheap food, political influence etc etc. It just would not be possible for the rich countries to function globally without immigration. It gives the billions of people whose tin pot governments have been bought out by the rich corporations a glimmer of hope that they too might reach the promised land. Without it there would be have to be even more oppression to keep these populations in check.
Its not racist to admit to preferring the company and surroundings your own cultural group. The saying "birds of a feather flock together" is true. But this doesnt mean that only your flock has a right to stay here..globalization and all that.
i would guess only a tiny number of people have been disadvantaged by the presence of immigrants..
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - Apr. 28 2008 0:54:30
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Mouser
Posts: 718
Joined: Jul. 16 2007
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When it comes to killing other people, we have long sought to distance ourselves from the violence of the act. If war was fought hand to hand, getting soldiers willing to strangle the enemy to death would be difficult. So we developed knives, spears etc. This is quicker and we can put a little distance between us. Less interaction with the enemy. Then we developed guns; shooting someone from a distance you will not need to look into their eyes, they may never even notice you. Then come tanks, planes and ships, able to deliver a lethal blast from a km away or more. You will never even see the men you kill. Finally atomic and biological weapons, here you rely only on pressing a button, and computer code will guide the weapon to its tactical target, improving the chances your nation will triumph. At every stage we remove some of the inhumanity and increase the efficiency...
So it is with voting for a party who would evict millions of Britons. Your average BNP voter would not engage in a dawn raid on the Kumars at #42... taking them from their beds in handcuffs to the back of a waiting truck, beating them, stealing from them, depriving them of their humanity an livelihood. Nor would they watch with satisfaction as they are led to deportation centres to be assigned a country for repatriation, or cram them onto transports which would make Ryanair look comfy. But remove this end result enough, season with a few other popular policies, and face opposition who are unwilling to talk about issues in any way shape or form... and people will be willing to vote for this.
So political insecurity and correctness in other parties, where the issues are dismissed and ignored leads to people feeling unrepresented; this is not surprising in the slightest. But when you take this a step further and tell people they are ignorant, stupid, racist and don't understand the benefits they will downright despise you. Doing this will never weaken the BNP, or any other group pursuing an agenda with extreme goals (whatever they are, could be very different). You will only weaken the BNP by driving at their foundations. IMHO, this would require a major party making a serious effort to tackle the cultural rifts which appear to be widening, and achieving some visible result, even if this required measure which would be perceived as discriminatory in the short-term such as targeted immigration control. At present the major parties are a long way from any such shift in policy, and as a result people feel they have a right, or even a duty to cast a protest vote.
Now with the mayor, it obviously will effect little change, but with the GLA, where proportional representation forms a part of the result, we are likely to see the BNP gain enough of a share to make some real noise. If the major parties still refuse to change, and the BNP successfully establish a platform from which to speak, the dangers of real political change in their favour mount as more people will hear them. Remembering the second paragraph for a moment, let us hope this is not the way we end up heading.
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - Apr. 28 2008 1:21:36
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Roger Mellie
Posts: 2184
Joined: Nov. 30 2002
From: South East
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gunshow3000
i would guess only a tiny number of people have been disadvantaged by the presence of immigrants..
True. I remember watching a documentary where they asked a BNP member about immigration. He told them he would let all immigrants in, and I thought I had heard him wrong for a second. Then it all made sense.
Mouser, it just won't happen. The mainstream parties and politicians are still scared of immigration, multiculturalism and all the rest of it. They were still in denial after Trevor Phillips of the Commission for Racial Equality said multiculturalism was divisive. The mainstream parties simply do not have a grasp of what it is like to live in a multi ethnic part of the country where people are not interested in integrating, but (like most people) prefer the company of their own. In fact most of the population have no idea, and don't really give a toss - hence the comments of the BNP member I mention above finally making sense to me.
< Message edited by Roger Mellie -- Apr. 28 2008 1:22:04 >
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - Apr. 28 2008 2:10:30
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Paracelsus
Posts: 2739
Joined: Jun. 17 2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drab4
p.p.s. You don't post on Drugs Forum . co . uk do you mate? There's a mod there with your username that's all
No mate 
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - Apr. 28 2008 2:12:36
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MuscleQuest
Posts: 405
Joined: Jan. 7 2008
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Lets not forget, amongst other things, its those like johnkerr that make people want to vote BNP
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - Apr. 28 2008 8:24:09
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JohnKerr2
Posts: 6439
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: London United Kingdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
Lets not forget, amongst other things, its those like johnkerr that make people want to vote BNP
Oh, give it a rest, little man.
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - Apr. 28 2008 8:27:36
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JohnKerr2
Posts: 6439
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: London United Kingdom
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mouser
So it is with voting for a party who would evict millions of Britons. Your average BNP voter would not engage in a dawn raid on the Kumars at #42... taking them from their beds in handcuffs to the back of a waiting truck, beating them, stealing from them, depriving them of their humanity an livelihood. Nor would they watch with satisfaction as they are led to deportation centres to be assigned a country for repatriation, or cram them onto transports which would make Ryanair look comfy. But remove this end result enough, season with a few other popular policies, and face opposition who are unwilling to talk about issues in any way shape or form... and people will be willing to vote for this.
A vote for the BNP is a kick in the teeth to the men and women who gave their lives in the second world war to protect Britain from the Nazis.
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - Apr. 28 2008 8:30:43
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Fat Pete
Posts: 7657
Joined: Aug. 5 2004
From: Tyldesley United Kingdom
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I find this very interesting. The purpose of a secret, democratic ballot is to let the people choose, according to the above poll Boris is the outright winner, with Labour second and BNP third but a very close run thing. If we believe in democracy we have to let the people speak and accept what they say regardless of our presonal feelings about it. Or are you only a fan of democracy when it agrees with you ?
I am no fan of the BNP but if that is the way the vote goes we all just have to live with it. The voice of the people is the voice of god and all that.
But I do believe in democracy
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - Apr. 28 2008 10:00:39
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Omario
Posts: 29
Joined: Dec. 13 2007
Status: offline
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I respect all your views. But I do agree with the view that the BNP is essentially a racist organisation, I also believe that this is pretty obvious if you spend more than say 2 minutes looking at their information.
My father came to the UK in the early 60's and worked his ass off, in initial sh*tty jobs that no one wanted to do. He saved money, paid all his taxes and married a girl and had children. I have been here all my life, been working since I was 16 and paid all my taxes. I am British, I know no other language but English, and all my friends and family are here. I have never been to another country for more than a couple of weeks for a holiday.
Yet if the BNP were in power, I would be "voluntarily" repatriated (as I am of asian descent, and I have brown skin). And my father would be forcibly repatriated. This has been confirmed by members of the BNP.
I agree that immigration is an issue that should be discussed, and not hidden from. I understand where Gina, and Roger Mellie are coming from, but I just don't think that a vote for the BNP is the right way to address your concerns.
Finally I would just like to say that this thread is a credit to the muscletalk forum that it has lasted 11+pages and has stayed as a mature and relevant debate. There are not many places where this would happen.
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - Apr. 28 2008 10:01:04
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cu3ed
Posts: 19320
Joined: Sep. 2 2004
From: Beneifit Fraud Agency with Phoenix
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Roger Mellie
quote:
ORIGINAL: drab4
I don't think John is a twat, in fact I agree with the main point he is making
A vote for the BNP is a vote for racism, in John's view and in my view and let's be realistic here, in the view of most people. People think BNP, they think racism. Why? Because those were the roots of the party, racism is where the BNP comes from
If you are a right wing nationalist (nothing wrong with that) then there are other parties with no ties to racism and no roots in Neo Nazism to vote for. And if you are protest voting, why not vote for an independent or some other party with no ties to racism?
There's nothing inherently special about any political party. They are all just politicians. Why vote for the BNP if you are not a racist? Why not vote for some other right wing nationalist party? Why not protest vote for some other party?
Sinn Fein have their roots in murder and terrorism, yet a vote for them in the last ten years would have been a vote for peace. A protest vote for one of the other independents does not really address the same issues. In addition to that different parties campaign the majority of the time on different issues and UKIP tend to be on about the EU most of the time - not multiculturalism or the failures of those who have introduced and promoted it.
Really a different set of rules here tho mate, people dont vote for SF, entire communities do, depending what side of the wall you live on here.
And a Vote for SF means a Vote for a united Ireland in about 20-30 years (I believe this will happin as its going now), there are as many thing I would actually agree with on policies that SF have made out over all the Unionist's parties here.
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - Apr. 28 2008 10:19:49
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DelBoy888
Posts: 908
Joined: May 24 2004
From: London
Status: offline
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There are areas that need to be addressed regarding immigration but voting BNP is not the way to go about it. Having lived and lots of family in the boroughs of Newham and Barking & Dagenham I have first hand experience of hundreds BNP members and voters who are nothing but racist bigots. If you vote for BNP then you are supporting a party that is racist, that is a fact.
People need to realise that yes there are problems with immigration but I love the fact that, especially as a Londoner, that there are so many cultures within London and it makes it a far more interesting place. Yes, there are those who sponge off the dole, but I can pick out equal amounts of 'indigenous caucasians' I know from the UK who are just as bad or worse! For me I have no problems with anyone coming into the country for work, as I myself would enjoy the same respect when I plan to go to work abroad.
I agree with John Kerr regarding the war. My family, living in the East End, had many people killed (around 20), including my grandad losing 2 brothers fighting against the Germans, yet holds no grudges against anyone, he has German neighbours who now have 2nd and 3rd generation children here.
Omario, it is people like your father, as there are many of them who are a credit to this country and I would enjoy to start a political party that would deport many of the 'indigenous caucasians' that are abusing this country to somewhere else!!
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - Apr. 28 2008 12:11:27
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Wheels
Posts: 1770
Joined: Jun. 20 2003
From: Sometimes here, Sometimes there
Status: offline
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quote:
There are areas that need to be addressed regarding immigration but voting BNP is not the way to go about it.
This sums it up for me too. I think the way the debate on immigration is largely supressed in the UK is the biggest draw card for the BNP, but even a protest vote for them is misguided imo. Interestingly I was in Carlise over the weekend where the BNP have made quite a few gains. For the most part they seem to be uncontested or very, very low voter turnout (~2-3%).
quote:
Omario, it is people like your father, as there are many of them who are a credit to this country and I would enjoy to start a political party that would deport many of the 'indigenous caucasians' that are abusing this country to somewhere else!!
This has been tried before and look at what we ended up with!
quote:
Have you ever read a BNP leaflet? Or their policies? In my area here is what they stated they would sanction, i have the leaflet right here in front of me:
Ban on ALL Halal meat. What the **** is wrong with Halal meat? Just seems a jab at muslims to me.
There is a good argument to ban halal slaughter as a cruel practice, however the inclusion of it in BNP's manafesto is clearly for only one reason. The rest of there policies are just plan racist & very, very stupid (i'm not sure which is worse lol)
Wheels
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - May 1 2008 21:03:27
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hambo
Posts: 601
Joined: Apr. 3 2006
Status: offline
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Less than an hour to go for those who haven't voted. Got mine out of the way this morning.
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - May 1 2008 21:05:12
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muscleman2008
Posts: 851
Joined: Mar. 3 2008
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yep a vote for ken this morning! no second choice either.
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - May 1 2008 21:08:38
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hambo
Posts: 601
Joined: Apr. 3 2006
Status: offline
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I went for Ken this morning with the Left List as second choice (Left List would be my first choice but they don't have a chance of winning it). But voted Left List for the London Assembly so hopefully they get a seat.
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - May 1 2008 21:43:45
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Dhiren
Posts: 504
Joined: Apr. 18 2004
From: United Kingdom
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Just saw Left List broadcast on youtube http://youtube.com/watch?v=xIBKwRHvkV8 and looks good but they have little chance against the might of Ken and Boris.
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - May 2 2008 0:31:22
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Puzzle
Posts: 3048
Joined: Oct. 13 2006
Status: online
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It's early in the night but to the untrained eye it looks like the tories are cleaning up. If this carries on, Ken is on his way out.
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RE: Who will you vote for London Mayor - May 2 2008 7:08:57
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tuc biscuit
Posts: 5489
Joined: Sep. 27 2003
From: Manchester UK Joined: Jun. 12 1993 Posts: 25675
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Puzzle
It's early in the night but to the untrained eye it looks like the tories are cleaning up. If this carries on, Ken is on his way out.
I just wonder if people who say or think they will vote for tory and change may decide to for the safe labour vote at the last moment?
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