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RE: Haye Confronts Klitschko - May 4 2008 22:00:24
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Cardifflad
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RE: Haye Confronts Klitschko - May 5 2008 15:24:35
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Integra
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quote:
Probably more than I can be bothered to check up on tbh mate
Surely if this was the case there would be a handful of names which spring to mind?
quote:
Integra, if that's the case then you are contradicting yourself
No I am not. I am stating that Haye is the biggest fight out there for WK, and is a much more marketable opponent than Thompson or Povetkin.
He may not be more marketable than Hatton, De La Hoya, etc and nobody is suggesting he is, but that is beside the point. Which is that a WK V Haye fight would be bigger than Thompson or Povetkin or any if not all of the top ten listed.
quote:
Take Mormeck and Enzo out of his fight record and its hardly been hard mountain to climb to clean up the division realy. Take Tszyu out of the equation and Hatton has done nothing at 140lbs. Haye beat the best in his division while Hatton did not fight Cotto/Mayweather/Witter the three best 140 pounders since Hatton won one of the main belts. (Unless you include him stepping up and getting completely dominated in every department while at the top of his game)
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RE: Haye Confronts Klitschko - May 5 2008 15:54:25
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Roger Mellie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Integra
No I am not. I am stating that Haye is the biggest fight out there for WK, and is a much more marketable opponent than Thompson or Povetkin.
He may not be more marketable than Hatton, De La Hoya, etc and nobody is suggesting he is, but that is beside the point. Which is that a WK V Haye fight would be bigger than Thompson or Povetkin or any if not all of the top ten listed.
It isn't beside the point. You are changing your point all the time, but a few posts ago your question was why Haye should not get a shot when those other fighters you listed had. Now you seem to have given up on that and gone onto something else.
I wouldn't really pretend to understand marketing in the US, which is probably a complex thing for HBO. Some of those boxers in the top 10 have fought on HBO. Sam Peter, Maskaev, Povetkin and even Valuev. Thes are likely all more marketable for HBO since they would be known to an HBO audience.
HBO seem to have their own marketing strategy (check out their website). Unfortunately, David Haye just doesn't figure in it.
It seems haye will have to do what Holyfield done when he moved up from cruiserweight as undisputed champ and have a number of fights at heavyweight before getting a shot.
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RE: Haye Confronts Klitschko - May 5 2008 15:59:03
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Integra
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No, my original points are still valid:
quote:
For those who suggest Haye does not deserve a shot at WK, what are your thoughts on Hatton moving up to fight Mayweather or Calzaghe moving up to fight Hopkins?
Neither established themselves in the division prior to their contests - unless you include Hatton scraping a highly contested points win against a light punching welterweight who had him out on his feet at the end.
The only difference between those two and Haye is that politics are getting in the way of a fight being made. WK has two mandatories to honour or he would lose the belts.
No question at all that a Haye V WK fight would be much bigger than Tony Thompson or the IBF mandatory Povetkin (who is a decent fighter and could beat WK)
All Haye can do if WK is not willing to fight him is to get in there and move up the rankings until he becomes unavoidable. Which is exactly what he did at cruiserweight.
And it appears that you are agreeing with me.
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RE: Haye Confronts Klitschko - May 5 2008 16:16:25
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H20
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quote:
Integra
quote:
Probably more than I can be bothered to check up on tbh mate
Surely if this was the case there would be a handful of names which spring to mind?
You`re the one Championing his cause over other weight divisions and people! why should I go through looking for the numerous failures, the onus is on you like I said successes are few and far between, I`ve asked you to provide them to back up your stance ON NUMEROUS OCCASSIONS now, you still haven`t done this.
Funny thing is, even if there were only a few failures it would back my point up more than it would yours in any case lol.
I still have a lot of time for your knowledge mate and that won`t change but you`ve made yourself look like an argumentative clown on this one, not just with me but others too, sorry, all yours now if you want mate.
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RE: Haye Confronts Klitschko - May 5 2008 16:26:51
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Roger Mellie
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I never disagreed with you on the point that Haye should move up and do it the hard way by earning a shot.
I disagreed that he was as deserving as any of the guys you listed. Simply by virtue of him being a cruiserweight, and not having had the same hype as the other guys.
That's my last post on the subject. I'll reserve my genius for some other person who needs the benefit of my wisdom.
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RE: Haye Confronts Klitschko - May 5 2008 16:46:46
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Integra
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The onus is not on me at all.
You asked me quote:
How many Pro Cruisers/Light Heavies do you know of who have genuinely gone on to have successful and lengthy careers at Heavyweight in the last 50 years ?
Length of career at HW is irrelevant in this debate, as Haye has repeatedly stated he is not interested in fighting beyond 30.
Taking into account the following:
1. There have only been around 40-50 belt holders since the cruiserweight division began
2. Only a small number of the top cruiserweights have fought at heavyweight.
3. A large proportion of this small number have won world titles at heavyweight.
The percentage of top cruiserweights who have moved up to heavyweight and won a world title is actually very very high.
I asked you quote:
how many top cruiserweights do you know that have actually made the step up from Cruiserweight to Heavyweight?
If you could list some of the top cruiserweights who have moved to heavyweight it would be very helpful as I can not think of many unless you include some of the poorer champions. As you have stated there are probably more than you can be bothered with checking, there surely must be quite a few.
quote:
Funny thing is, even if there were only a few failures it would back my point up more than it would yours in any case lol. - maybe so, but we are talking about top cruiserweights here, not paper champions like Johnny Nelson.
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RE: Haye Confronts Klitschko - May 5 2008 22:25:15
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Trident
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First betting odds to hit the market for this fight should it happen are
Klitschko 4/7
Haye 5/4
Which I thinks very realistic.
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RE: Haye Confronts Klitschko - May 8 2008 10:04:20
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Videoman
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That was funny!! I was with David in Sheffield for the ABAs on the Friday, I could not make the SENI show till the sunday where I filmed the Boxing, i would have been nice to see that on the stairs, even promoter Joe Long was in the clip!!
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RE: Haye Confronts Klitschko - May 14 2008 9:56:45
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KICKFIGHTER
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I like David Haye, have done for some 12 years. I think he will do well at heavy, I just think regardless of what Hatton did by moving up for a shot at FW, that Haye needs to establish himself at the weight and fight 2 or 3 top ten guys then fight the 'champ'. If it was good enough for the Real Deal then it should be for Haye. It should be about cleaning up a division so there is no doubt who is the best and Haye can do that but should have to get in line regardless of his achievements at cruiser. Holyfield did and went on to win the undisputed title once and regain single titles 4 times, but he had to get in line many times to prove himself. Incidently, just read the book 'Becoming Holyfield' very good book.
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RE: Haye Confronts Klitschko - May 14 2008 11:03:35
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Welshace13
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hayes a beast. hes got personality. you got to love the c0cky fighters.
< Message edited by Welshace13 -- May 14 2008 11:05:14 >
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RE: Haye Confronts Klitschko - May 14 2008 13:05:28
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maccer
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I was disappointed by Hayes behaviour in that clip - embarrassing
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RE: Haye Confronts Klitschko - May 14 2008 13:46:55
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bennett2006
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Integra is always right
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