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RE: How important is it to lift heavy? - May 3 2008 20:21:35
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Knighty
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iaink
quote:
it can mean using a weight that's an effort in even a higher rep range.
No, that's hard work not a heavy load.
Both are relative, no?
I don't life close to 1 rep max weight, and never will do in the future, but it doesn't mean I'm lifting 'light'.
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RE: How important is it to lift heavy? - May 4 2008 13:15:12
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iaink
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quote:
I don't life close to 1 rep max weight, and never will do in the future, but it doesn't mean I'm lifting 'light'.
True, but a 20RM is not heavy, neither is a 15RM. A 1-5RM I'd consider 'heavy'.
Hard work is subjective but heavy as a % of your 1RM is not.
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RE: How important is it to lift heavy? - May 4 2008 23:13:55
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Mad Manic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TREBOR
So training has nothing to do with gaining muscular size its all down to just eating?
Who says we're talking about muscular size? You said before that based on his sig the heavy lifting doesn't seem to be working for him, that was his stat of 80 odd kg bodyweight. So you're making that statement off his bodyweight, you don't know the composition of it or other details. So for him to be heavier it's about calorie surplus and thus eating more to add weight. It isn't about doing high volume ... if anything switching to high volume and keeping diet etc. the same would result in weight loss as it burns more calories.
I also could easily say that lifting light hasn't worked that well for you ... you've been training several years and you are still not that muscular, yet the big muscular guys are lifting high poundages even if they do use 8+ reps.
I think JohnOvManchester said it best and is also how I train ... go heavy to get stronger and rip the fibres, then really wear them down with volume using lighter weights and more reps. From experience that really is the best way, you need to get stronger at this type of level to get the size gains in the near future and you need volume for muscle gains.
MM
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RE: How important is it to lift heavy? - May 5 2008 8:07:30
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TREBOR
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From: Durham United Kingdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mad Manic
quote:
ORIGINAL: TREBOR
So training has nothing to do with gaining muscular size its all down to just eating?
Who says we're talking about muscular size? You said before that based on his sig the heavy lifting doesn't seem to be working for him, that was his stat of 80 odd kg bodyweight. So you're making that statement off his bodyweight, you don't know the composition of it or other details. So for him to be heavier it's about calorie surplus and thus eating more to add weight. It isn't about doing high volume ... if anything switching to high volume and keeping diet etc. the same would result in weight loss as it burns more calories.
I also could easily say that lifting light hasn't worked that well for you ... you've been training several years and you are still not that muscular, yet the big muscular guys are lifting high poundages even if they do use 8+ reps.
I think JohnOvManchester said it best and is also how I train ... go heavy to get stronger and rip the fibres, then really wear them down with volume using lighter weights and more reps. From experience that really is the best way, you need to get stronger at this type of level to get the size gains in the near future and you need volume for muscle gains.
MM
He said "Because for the *majority* it works." your right he may have amazing condition maybe he will reply to the thread with details.
Ive tried many approaches and the ego lift heavy at all costs isn't the best way if your training for size gains.
As an example i'm using 50kg less on the squat now than i was a couple of years ago but my legs are 2 inches bigger now.
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RE: How important is it to lift heavy? - May 5 2008 10:55:55
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Dazzler69
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dianabolik
Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but no-one wants to lift any heavy ass weight 
But Ronnie does lol. Personally I dont see the point of working out and not going to ure limit, whether it being a heavy weight or slightly lighter weight but for more reps.
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RE: How important is it to lift heavy? - May 5 2008 16:58:45
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Mad Manic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TREBOR
He said "Because for the *majority* it works." your right he may have amazing condition maybe he will reply to the thread with details.
Ive tried many approaches and the ego lift heavy at all costs isn't the best way if your training for size gains.
As an example i'm using 50kg less on the squat now than i was a couple of years ago but my legs are 2 inches bigger now.
Well I wasn't concerned about anything he said, I was dealing with your comment that heavy lifting doesn't seem to be working for him based on his bodyweight, when increasing that is down to diet changes.
As I said IMO at our level we need to get stronger as well as bigger, we do need a strength base. I'm glad your legs are bigger despite squatting less, but I'm sure the form is better, the depth is more and more volume and hard work is done?
MM
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RE: How important is it to lift heavy? - May 5 2008 18:06:40
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scruffy
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From: United Kingdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dazzler69
quote:
ORIGINAL: dianabolik
Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but no-one wants to lift any heavy ass weight
But Ronnie does lol. Personally I dont see the point of working out and not going to ure limit, whether it being a heavy weight or slightly lighter weight but for more reps.
if your going to your limit every time then your cns is gonna be overtrained......unless your some freak of nature with a nutrisionist and chef on hand then for the majority you cannot keep this up......the main problem for most is they think they are training to faliure but are still holding back...
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RE: How important is it to lift heavy? - May 5 2008 18:11:04
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DrRick
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I'm with IainK on this. Who wants to be a sheep in wolf's clothing?
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RE: How important is it to lift heavy? - May 5 2008 19:21:17
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makaveli2k4
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I think once you have gone through your intial growth spurt that everyone has when they first start training, (heck i went through a total body recompostion i responded amazingly well,shoulders and traps came out first, got the v shape taper next, arms came on, put on 2stones when i first started training and that was down to weights alone) to keep on gaining muscle mass i think heavy lifting is required. IMO and personal experience heavy lifting has increased my muscle mass and strength eventhough my calorie intake has been relatively the same. Heck for the past month my calorie intake has been less than normal but all my lifts have gone and my strength and i can say i have also increased mass in certain bodyparts, chest and arms being the most noticeable. So basically from my experience i see heavy lifting as a very improtant step towards gaining muscle mass and strength. Eating is important but if you stay pushing the same weight whilst increasing calories i dont think it will do much for gaining more muscle! Ive been training for i would say 5years in total, my calorie intake as been relatively the same, but i have been putting on lean mass over the years and increasing the weights i push in the gym.
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RE: How important is it to lift heavy? - May 5 2008 19:57:00
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TREBOR
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From: Durham United Kingdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mad Manic
As I said IMO at our level we need to get stronger as well as bigger, we do need a strength base. I'm glad your legs are bigger despite squatting less, but I'm sure the form is better, the depth is more and more volume and hard work is done?
MM
What level are you talking about mate?
The only thing that has changed form wise is i use a narrow stance now which hits the quads better,i don't do low rep heavy poundage with a 3-5 minute rest between sets,i rest 1-1.30 min max and reps are usually 8 or higher,all those combined limit the amount of weight i can use but do the job of overloading the muscle very well.
Volume wise 3 exercise 3 sets for quads,hams on a seperate day.
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RE: How important is it to lift heavy? - May 5 2008 22:22:49
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Mad Manic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TREBOR
What level are you talking about mate?
The only thing that has changed form wise is i use a narrow stance now which hits the quads better,i don't do low rep heavy poundage with a 3-5 minute rest between sets,i rest 1-1.30 min max and reps are usually 8 or higher,all those combined limit the amount of weight i can use but do the job of overloading the muscle very well.
Volume wise 3 exercise 3 sets for quads,hams on a seperate day.
Respectable amateur level, which is what I'd describe us at, you have 17" arms and I have 17.5" arms so around this level I still think we need to get stronger. Yes sounds like the reps are better quality and you are doing more volume and working harder, thus more growth. But diet is very important as well for growth, so low reps can work well too.
Just curious what is your training split?
MM
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RE: How important is it to lift heavy? - May 6 2008 8:18:27
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buzzer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jeaver
Hi,
I've been asking myself lately whether it really is important to lift very heavy. For instance, I can barely do 1 pull-up and I'm 80kg and lean. I see other guys who do 10 pull ups in a row and they look 70kg or less. Same goes for other things like biceps curls (guys doing 30kg and more with 30cm guns). What I mean is that volume is just what you get for eating bigger+everyday exercise, gym just gets you stronger.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
this thread has gone of track if you reread the OPs original question he is basicly saying that guys in his gym who are not as big as him can lift more,so "is lifting very heavy a requirment for hypertrophy" and the answer is no increasing load is,
look at top bbrs they are much bigger than top pl-lifters but dont lift as much.
mariuz pudzinowski is a big guy but stand him next to dorian yates and he would look much smaller,but he is a lot stronger.
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RE: How important is it to lift heavy? - May 6 2008 10:33:52
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iaink
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On a slight tangent but somewhat on topic do people think there is a potentially greater disconnect between strength v size in people that use gear and GH?
Purely from personal experince, but I see many more guys on gear get bigger from high-rep pumping work with almost no regard for increases in strength, yet I almost never see this in guys sans gear?
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RE: How important is it to lift heavy? - May 6 2008 13:32:35
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MMA Guy
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i see guys on gear who have respectable numbers in their lifts yet look far from what you would imagine they would.
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RE: How important is it to lift heavy? - May 7 2008 20:06:06
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ozzy
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you gotta lift heavy weights, that's the name of the game. Take someone like pudinovski (sp?), you think he got there from lifting puny ass weights? No, heavy weights, and make them heavier all the time. That stimulates growth, that stimulates the body to adapt. You gotta push yourself to the limits otherwise you don't continue to improve.
Scruff, IainK and MMA are right here...
On the subject of gear, different horses for different courses, but they didn't get big from lifting the same weight they did when they started out. All gear does is aid recovery, increase metabolism and in the case of GH stimulates muscle fibre increases. More strength from holding water in the muscles. It just furthers the bodys abilities, but it is nothing without hard graft and...HEAVY weights!
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