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Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 11:00:21
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paulom
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Hey guys
What is your experience?
Are brands like BSN, CNP, etc and other really worth the extra money? Or are we just talking about fortunes that these companies spend advertising their products but in real terms they do not offer any real added value?
In my gym they were suggesting me a supplement that was 12.50 for 1.8 kilos and when I went to look at its composition was malto. You can buy malto by far cheaper than that.
I e-mailed the company in the States asking what the product had so special that they were charging that much for it. The reply. I special delivery system. To which I asked what was it and no reply.
A special delivery system for malto???!! Malto is absorbed very easily and quickly.
Thanks
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 11:05:50
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Incredible Bulk
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i love CNP whey protein but i am not a fan of the £35.99 or whatever for 2.5kg when i can get 10lbs from myprotein for £33
CNP products like creatine i will always buy, when i look to compete i'll be buying their pro-peptide/dessert etc but right now while i am bulking, whey sources are sorted by price not content
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 11:07:25
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JohnKerr2
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This is how supplement companies make money.
- Take a bog standard product
- add some needless, useless (or minimally useful) extras
- plonk it into some jazzy, shiny packaging
- give it a ridiculous hyperbolic name: "ADVANCE X-PLOSION MATRIX ULTRA-TECH MEGABOOST 5000 with Taurine"
- pay a champion bodybuilder to pretend that it's the secret of their success
- sell for double or triple the price.
Bingo.
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Anyway in my experience its always the short guys who are smart arses here,How tall are you john kerr? 5`3?
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 11:09:03
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paulom
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so i am assuming that you don't buy lots of supplements from your gym? I am assuming.
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 11:14:16
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lradford
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnKerr2
This is how supplement companies make money.
- Take a bog standard product
- add some needless, useless (or minimally useful) extras
- plonk it into some jazzy, shiny packaging
- give it a ridiculous hyperbolic name: "ADVANCE X-PLOSION MATRIX ULTRA-TECH MEGABOOST 5000 with Taurine"
- pay a champion bodybuilder to pretend that it's the secret of their success
- sell for double or triple the price.
Bingo.
lol - that is so true.
Although also true for most brands of any product.
I use particular brands if I like the consistency, taste, mixability. But do believe myprotein etc offer as good, if not better, quality and value for money than a lot of brands.
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 11:16:58
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CoNs
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i buy both
i use the bulk suppliers for my whey / creatine / amino's etc
but use branded for say flapjacks etc
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Think of training as a recipe. An omelet tastes better if there's heavy cream in it. But if you put eight ounces of heavy cream in the omelet, then it's not an omelet anymore — it's something else.
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 11:43:12
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dazc
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the cnp promass is a really good product and at a good price, i used it for years and it served me well.
bulk supplies will always be cheaper, and allow you to talor the nutrition to the exact requirements for that time of day, where with a brandedc product it has to be whatever is the best fit for all the times you use it
good and bad points to both.
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 11:46:17
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ThaiFighter
Posts: 4674
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From: Manchester
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The bulk suppliers also have those same, identical advertising spends.
How many ads for My Protein is there in an average issue of Flex nowadays? How many boards do they sponsor? How much do they spend on Google Adwords (look below - every time you click on their link it costs them 50p).
It's the same game, and as you'll have noticed, the price difference between branded / unbranded has greatly shrunk over the past few yrs. Once, "unbranded" sups were much cheaper - 11 quid per kilo of whey vs. 30 quid for branded. Now....not only would I argue that MP, All-In-1 etc. ARE branded sups (after all...people buy "MP Whey" and ask what All-In-1's like....and they return to that shop because they trust the products will be of good quality and tasty) but I'd also argue there isn't that big a cost difference.
Today many internet retailers are selling 10kg of basic Reflex Whey, for around the same price as you'd pay for good quality whey from bulk suppliers. You can also buy bars, creatine mixes, and all sorts of other stuff....very, very cheaply. It depends where you shop - if you go to H&B you're obviously going to see prices that are way over the odds, because it's excruciatingly expensive running a shop (think of staff costs, rents, rates, insurance etc.), but buy online...and you'll see things at prices that are very, very, very reasonable.
In terms of the specific point on CNP Whey - check out lots of people's multi-buy deals. I've seen (and I'm not talking about me here, so this isn't a plug) places offering 3 Whey's for 2, 4 or 5 whey's for 50% of RRP...stuff like that.
You will pay for NEW supplements - stuff like Mass FX, Hyperdrol, 3-AD etc, but that is simply because someone has gone to the trouble of creating a formula that's never been sold before, finding someone to produce it, running off probably a minimum of 10,000 units (taking that sort of risk - that's a big, big risk on something that may never sell), and then trying to pitch it and ensure customers know what it is he's pitching. That stuff the manufacturers deserve paying for, because they've brought something, new, innovative, and interesting to the market, expanding what's available.
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 11:53:49
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Mobster
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Good post. The last thing I'd buy from a 'brand' is a staple like Creatine - why pay well over the odds for something that cannot be ****ed about with?
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Two times British Grip Champ (2006 and 2008)
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 11:54:06
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JohnKerr2
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From: London United Kingdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: paulom
so i am assuming that you don't buy lots of supplements from your gym? I am assuming.
Nope.
I buy from Proteins Direct.
_____________________________
Anyway in my experience its always the short guys who are smart arses here,How tall are you john kerr? 5`3?
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 12:01:24
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paulom
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you need to tel me where you buy Reflex products so cheap I cannot find those prices so if u could help much appreciated
H&B are just a disgarce in my opinion good for some fish oils and vitamins
protwin forget about it you fart like hell
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 12:03:58
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paulom
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where do u check those prices?
I ussually buy from all-in-one or my protein
whey
malto
calcium cas
meal replacements
aminoacids, fish oil, vitamins are brand ones
regarding BSN at least for me the quantaties they suggest are not enough
thanks
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 12:05:18
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paulom
Posts: 1095
Joined: Oct. 25 2007
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never tried that one will check
I avoid byuing stuff there the other day they wanted to sell me a belt that I then ended-up buying for half of the price
same brand so I do not trust them in terms of prices at all
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 12:18:58
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paulom
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never ussed that one
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 12:44:56
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myprotein.co.uk
Posts: 2002
Joined: May 7 2004
From: MP HQ
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Hi,
This is an interesting question. We don't feel its as simple as "brand" vs "bulk". We feel we are both! We are an "online brand"... For anyone not sure on who we are please take a look at the link below:
http://www.myprotein.co.uk/?page=about-us
The reason we can offer better prices is the fact we produce all of our orders "in-house" and then sell to you "direct" cutting out the middlemen, which of course is in affect selling trade prices to the end users, rather than selling via retail (who have to make a profit as well)!
Of course we do all the above under strict ISO9001 (UKAS) guidelines which is the highest level of accredation for ANY company in the sector (retail or online), which assures our quality.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ThaiFighter
Here's an example of how little price difference is often in very similar products - bulk to "branded":
MP Pulse - 1kg / 1month with flavouring and in a plastic tub - plus UK shipping = 30.06
BSN No-Xplode - 820g / 1 month Grape Flavour - plus UK shipping = 29.97
BSN Cellmass - 640g / 1 month Orange Flavour - plus UK shipping = 29.97
Doesn't this show you get 18% more with Pulse, which is of course a great saving? Also if you bought in "bulk" (2kg+) then the saving would be greater as P&P isn't included in the product price. Of course if you spend over £100 P&P is "free".
That is of course one product. Compare our price for Creatine Monohydrate and a "retail" version for example.
With regards to whey we sell 5lb's of flavoured whey for £21.99 which comes in at 78% (as-is) protein, you can't buy that high quality, great tasting whey from any "retail" or "high street" (unless a special offer maybe?) and we have recently reduced our "MP Max - Whey Protein" product which gets rave reviews to £24.99 per 5lb tub.
http://www.myprotein.co.uk/mp-max/whey-protein/whey-protein-(5lb)/
Any questions please feel free to ask.
MP :)
< Message edited by myprotein.co.uk -- Apr. 30 2008 12:51:04 >
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 13:03:07
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ThaiFighter
Posts: 4674
Joined: Dec. 26 2005
From: Manchester
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: myprotein.co.uk
Hi,
This is an interesting question. We don't feel its as simple as "brand" vs "bulk". We feel we are both! We are an "online brand"... For anyone not sure on who we are please take a look at the link below:
http://www.myprotein.co.uk/?page=about-us
The reason we can offer better prices is the fact we produce all of our orders "in-house" and then sell to you "direct" cutting out the middlemen, which of course is in affect selling trade prices to the end users, rather than selling via retail (who have to make a profit as well)!
Of course we do all the above under strict ISO9001 (UKAS) guidelines which is the highest level of accredation for ANY company in the sector (retail or online), which assures our quality.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ThaiFighter
Here's an example of how little price difference is often in very similar products - bulk to "branded":
MP Pulse - 1kg / 1month with flavouring and in a plastic tub - plus UK shipping = 30.06
BSN No-Xplode - 820g / 1 month Grape Flavour - plus UK shipping = 29.97
BSN Cellmass - 640g / 1 month Orange Flavour - plus UK shipping = 29.97
Doesn't this show you get 18% more with Pulse, which is of course a great saving? Also if you bought in "bulk" (2kg+) then the saving would be greater as P&P isn't included in the product price. Of course if you spend over £100 P&P is "free".
That is of course one product. Compare our price for Creatine Monohydrate and a "retail" version for example.
With regards to whey we sell 5lb's of flavoured whey for £21.99 which comes in at 78% (as-is) protein, you can't buy that high quality, great tasting whey from any "retail" or "high street" (unless a special offer maybe?) and we have recently reduced our "MP Max - Whey Protein" product which gets rave reviews to £24.99 per 5lb tub.
http://www.myprotein.co.uk/mp-max/whey-protein/whey-protein-(5lb)/
Any questions please feel free to ask.
MP :)
I'm not saying you don't do a great product - I think you're a good company, and started the generic supplement market in the UK as it is today.
However, there are still middle men in your business model. You don't raise and farm the cattle who produce your milk for whey. You don't own the trucks that transport your powder. You don't own the dairy's that process your whey. You buy an end product, and sell it on, much like if Reflex sold their own products through their website - that would be a similar business model, if they were to aggressively do it.
In terms of value - gross volume doesn't equal value, length of cycle and results = value. My analysis was for 1 months supply of two competiting creatine products, which in my mind makes it a valid analysis.
As I said before, I think you produce great products and give good service - however I don't think there's that much difference in cost, especially now that the internet retailers have greatly reduced the cost of "branded" supplements.
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BodybuildingWarehouse.co.uk
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RE: Internet bulk suppliers or brands - Apr. 30 2008 13:23:16
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Mobster
Posts: 8246
Joined: Apr. 20 2002
From: Gloucester United Kingdom
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ThaiFighter
quote:
ORIGINAL: myprotein.co.uk
Hi,
This is an interesting question. We don't feel its as simple as "brand" vs "bulk". We feel we are both! We are an "online brand"... For anyone not sure on who we are please take a look at the link below:
http://www.myprotein.co.uk/?page=about-us
The reason we can offer better prices is the fact we produce all of our orders "in-house" and then sell to you "direct" cutting out the middlemen, which of course is in affect selling trade prices to the end users, rather than selling via retail (who have to make a profit as well)!
Of course we do all the above under strict ISO9001 (UKAS) guidelines which is the highest level of accredation for ANY company in the sector (retail or online), which assures our quality.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ThaiFighter
Here's an example of how little price difference is often in very similar products - bulk to "branded":
MP Pulse - 1kg / 1month with flavouring and in a plastic tub - plus UK shipping = 30.06
BSN No-Xplode - 820g / 1 month Grape Flavour - plus UK shipping = 29.97
BSN Cellmass - 640g / 1 month Orange Flavour - plus UK shipping = 29.97
Doesn't this show you get 18% more with Pulse, which is of course a great saving? Also if you bought in "bulk" (2kg+) then the saving would be greater as P&P isn't included in the product price. Of course if you spend over £100 P&P is "free".
That is of course one product. Compare our price for Creatine Monohydrate and a "retail" version for example.
With regards to whey we sell 5lb's of flavoured whey for £21.99 which comes in at 78% (as-is) protein, you can't buy that high quality, great tasting whey from any "retail" or "high street" (unless a special offer maybe?) and we have recently reduced our "MP Max - Whey Protein" product which gets rave reviews to £24.99 per 5lb tub.
http://www.myprotein.co.uk/mp-max/whey-protein/whey-protein-(5lb)/
Any questions please feel free to ask.
MP :)
I'm not saying you don't do a great product - I think you're a good company, and started the generic supplement market in the UK as it is today.
However, there are still middle men in your business model. You don't raise and farm the cattle who produce your milk for whey. You don't own the trucks that transport your powder. You don't own the dairy's that process your whey. You buy an end product, and sell it on, much like if Reflex sold their own products through their website - that would be a similar business model, if they were to aggressively do it.
In terms of value - gross volume doesn't equal value, length of cycle and results = value. My analysis was for 1 months supply of two competiting creatine products, which in my mind makes it a valid analysis.
As I said before, I think you produce great products and give good service - however I don't think there's that much difference in cost, especially now that the internet retailers have greatly reduced the cost of "branded" supplements.
I take issue only with that line in bold. A brief history of the 'bulk' brands needs to include Vydex's 10lb catering packs, Nutrisports 5-kilo tubs, the now defunct www.tmof.co.uk and Aviform never mind ourselves. I think as a brand we precede Myprotein by at least a year if not 2. The others precede Myprotein by three or so and maybe more. There are others which came along shortly after (the now defunct wpc80.co.uk, Bulkwhey, all in one, Bulkpowders, Proteindirect.co.uk and others). The specifics of each business model show unique aspects to all of them and so it is hard to do a direct comparison. Myproteins truly unique model, certainly in the UK, is their custom formulation service. Even that aspect of their business, it could be argued, was preceded by True Protein and the now no longer in that form Protein Customizer - both based as I said in the US.
Like I say, it's not as clear cut as it might seem because we all have differences but if it's bulk whey being sold in decent amounts for low prices Vydex gets the heads up as first.
_____________________________
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Two times British Grip Champ (2006 and 2008)
To buy my Gripper Book from MT click here
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