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Whey vs. Soya - May 1 2008 8:48:21
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Varg
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Is there any real difference between whey protein and soya protein?
I have only been using it since January and I bought the Body Fortress whey protein from Holland and Barrett for £13 on offer.
When I went to get some last weekend it had gone up to £25, but there was some soya protein for £11 (I think) which I bought and tried.
It has a bit more protein per 100g, less carbs, more fat - a few minor differences basically.
It tastes better to me, mixes better and is easier to clean off the glass.
Is there any reason why I shouldn't be using whey protein?
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RE: Whey vs. Soya - May 1 2008 9:31:26
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daveo
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Whey protein is more bio-available, faster-acting and probably tastes nicer (Although the H&B stuff is notoriously foul)
Soya protein is lactose free.
I'd say the best bet is a mix of proteins.
Don't buy the H&B stuff, get it from the bulk suppliers advertised on this site.
< Message edited by daveo -- May 1 2008 9:33:30 >
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RE: Whey vs. Soya - May 1 2008 10:39:53
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iaink
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quote:
Whey protein is more bio-available, faster-acting
Not really true. Both are quality protein sources and are both absorbed fast for a protein, with little difference between the two. The question is whether soy will effect test/est ratios etc?
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RE: Whey vs. Soya - May 1 2008 10:41:38
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paulom
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forget H&b
you will fart like hell
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RE: Whey vs. Soya - May 1 2008 11:12:31
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daveo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iaink
quote:
Whey protein is more bio-available, faster-acting
Not really true. Both are quality protein sources and are both absorbed fast for a protein, with little difference between the two. The question is whether soy will effect test/est ratios etc?
I'm not saying it's not a quality source.
And yes there are differences between bioavailability. Soy protein isolate is about 86% bioavailable, whereas whey is close to 100.
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1193647
The oestrogen thing about soy is still up in the air, but from my research most people agree that plant oestrogens can't convert to human ones, and in 15 years of heavy soya use i can say from personal experience that it's not true.
< Message edited by daveo -- May 1 2008 11:16:48 >
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RE: Whey vs. Soya - May 1 2008 11:47:21
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iaink
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quote:
The oestrogen thing about soy is still up in the air, but from my research most people agree that plant oestrogens can't convert to human ones, and in 15 years of heavy soya use i can say from personal experience that it's not true
I'd agree with the above. At the very least large quantaties of soy protein would have to be consumed to be possibly problomatic.
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RE: Whey vs. Soya - May 1 2008 17:04:25
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David Barr
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Iaink I respectfully disagree. For improving muscle growth, the data on whey protein are like nothing we've ever seen before. There's just no comparison. This would apply to muscle recovery as well.
Do you have data on absorption of soy? I've done some lit. analysis on whey absorption rates, but haven't looked at soy and am sincerely curious (I love that sort of thing).
I agree about the potential estrogenic effect. There are plenty of data, all seemingly equivocal. Hell, I even asked a soy researcher about this -the question was dodged. 
edit: spelling
quote:
ORIGINAL: iaink
Both are quality protein sources and are both absorbed fast for a protein, with little difference between the two. The question is whether soy will effect test/est ratios etc?
< Message edited by David Barr -- May 1 2008 17:05:23 >
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RE: Whey vs. Soya - May 1 2008 18:03:38
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drewsky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: David Barr
I agree about the potential estrogenic effect. There are plenty of data, all seemingly equivocal. Hell, I even asked a soy researcher about this -the question was dodged.
Agreed, and it's not hard to see why when you start looking at the chemistry, processing (in the gut etc) and food tech involved. There's lots of interesting data off the back of estrogen dependent breast cancers etc and both in vivo and in vitro but not a huge amount pertaining specifically to men. Have you got any names/teams I should have a look for here David?
EDIT: to make it make sense!
< Message edited by drewsky -- May 1 2008 20:33:53 >
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RE: Whey vs. Soya - May 1 2008 21:54:30
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orange86
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i have soy protein isolate.
i cant have whey (dairy) items as i have IBS.
soy is quality, complete AA profile afaik. just doesnt mix as well as whey.
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RE: Whey vs. Soya - May 1 2008 23:02:09
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FatboyGinger
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There's loads of conflicting evidence regarding soy. Personally, I use Lactose free whey, because the talks of phyto oestrogens and various other things makes me think that it would just be easier to use a protein I trust.
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RE: Whey vs. Soya - May 2 2008 9:09:20
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drewsky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: orange86
i cant have whey (dairy) items as i have IBS.
You may consider using a little whey isolate just to retest yourself, whey is generally less of a trigger of symptoms than other dairy, hydrolyzed whey of course should be tolerated even better. IBS is a nebulus collection of symptoms and the triggers can vary due to health (gut health, stress levels etc) and lifestyle.
quote:
ORIGINAL: orange86
soy is quality, complete AA profile afaik. just doesnt mix as well as whey.
It's quite deficient in some amino acids, check to see if your product is fortified.
< Message edited by drewsky -- May 2 2008 9:10:56 >
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RE: Whey vs. Soya - May 2 2008 10:04:30
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orange86
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drew,
i buy SPI from my protein.
i've tried whey isolate and i have the same issue, i cant handle it.
i cant have diary or wheat items. otherwise my IBS goes into overdrive
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RE: Whey vs. Soya - May 2 2008 11:20:51
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drewsky
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I didn;t really explain what I mean, the triggers can actually change a little in some. After not having had it for many months or years depending upon the extent of the symptoms and how important you feel it is then you might want to retry.
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RE: Whey vs. Soya - May 4 2008 17:13:36
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iaink
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quote:
For improving muscle growth, the data on whey protein are like nothing we've ever seen before.
Barring fasted studies what real evidence is there that whey protein is the 'number one' in terms of muscle growth? I am playing devils advocate here (I belive whey to be superior to soy in this regard) but I am generally interested on your views.
Even if we include fasted studies, dose not the greater increase in protein balance seen with casein ingestion support this milk protein as having a greater effect on muscle mass. This is despite whey's larger spike in protein synthesis.
I have only a cursory knwoledge in this area but it seems that although whey is a quality and very good protein source for those wishing to increase muscle mass etc, it dose seem to have been put on an unfeesably big pedistal.
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RE: Whey vs. Soya - May 5 2008 3:36:49
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David Barr
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iaink
Barring fasted studies what real evidence is there that whey protein is the 'number one' in terms of muscle growth?
Absolutely. I even wrote a couple of books about it. 
quote:
Even if we include fasted studies, dose not the greater increase in protein balance seen with casein ingestion support this milk protein as having a greater effect on muscle mass. This is despite whey's larger spike in protein synthesis.
You're right about this, but it's all because of the way in which our lab measured the protein synthesis data. Without going into too much detail, casein is a very low maintenance protein -we can just take it and forget about it for 8 hours.
Whey on the other hand is far more high maintenance in that there's a specific way in which it is used in order to optimize anabolism.
quote:
I have only a cursory knwoledge in this area...
Ah you're just being modest. The above quotes alone show that you have a good grasp of the current info.
Aside: it's good to have discussions like this once again.
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RE: Whey vs. Soya - May 6 2008 12:35:49
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Varg
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quote:
ORIGINAL: paulom
forget H&b
you will fart like hell
I haven't found that to be the case, lol!
quote:
soy is quality, complete AA profile afaik. just doesnt mix as well as whey.
I found that the soya mixes better!
A lot better.
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