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RE: Full body, 3 day split ideas? - May 3 2008 21:03:10
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darkershade
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Ps... Splits contain hamsting exercises, calfs, tris, bis
Do you really think compounds cover them alone and if so why the need for isolations in splits seeing as rep ranges and sets will usually be the same!?
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RE: Full body, 3 day split ideas? - May 3 2008 21:28:08
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drewsky
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I'll keep this short because I'm off out:
with the full body as above there are squats, deads and power cleans. All these are leg movements (for some reason in the UK the deadlift is seen as a 'back' movement, by most) that can be used well at different set rep schemes and stimulate a lot of muscle in a short time.
PLUS you are doing them all fresh when yo do them in a full body type routine and this is a very important thing. When you do legs on a legs day how depleted are you after your 1st movement trained? How meaningful is that second compound movement trained as opposed to doing it fresh?
As for 'where's the hams bis etc'...
Hams - deads and power cleans (especially good for the athlete where HSC's actually may be a deleterious thing to do)
Tris- every heavy push exercise
Bis - pull-ups etc. In fact close grip chins (a exercise you would sub in after a few weeks) are one of the best stimulator's of bicep growth.
Calves - powercleans are great and squats are good. Yes this is where you might consider isolations first but again, the above full body schedule is very effective.
In short you can develop your tris etc well enough doing heavy pressing etc
Of course you can add in isolation exercises of course they aren't mutually exclusive in full body routines, you can even have one more compound movement as well just as long as you get to volume right but the point is if you get the intensity right and volume and frequency correct you might not need them.
As with everything it depends upon context and goals, if I have an athlete training in another sport, someone short of time, a trainee concerned with strength or someone who hasn't been training that long then I would consider a program similar to the one above. If you have more time to train are an 'advanced trainee' (and I do mean advanced) on a higher volume phase (there are arguments for experienced trainees to get rid of isolations and concentrate ion compounds due to higher CNS efficiency) then you can thing about adding in more isolation exercises.
< Message edited by drewsky -- May 3 2008 21:33:36 >
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RE: Full body, 3 day split ideas? - May 3 2008 21:30:37
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T0NY
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Lots of sense being talked in this thread.
I agree with all of the above.
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RE: Full body, 3 day split ideas? - May 3 2008 21:32:47
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drewsky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: darkershade
seeing as rep ranges and sets will usually be the same!?
Actually usualy they won't be.
Split usually revolve around a very tight range of reps/sets (first exercise heavy say 3x8 last exercise light 2x15) whereas full body protocols often use very different ones from session to session e.g. Mon: 3x8, Tues 8x3, Thurs 2x18 Fri 5x5, with movements selected for each day for their suitability for the rep range.
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RE: Full body, 3 day split ideas? - May 3 2008 22:03:13
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jack5r
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I like the first routine posted the most. I was never a big fan of full body routines but as I'm slowly switching from BBing to Strength/power training I am liking the idea more and more.
Full body routines are aimed more at strength training than for over all asthetics though I feel so bare this in mind Darkshade. I still don't like the idea of no isolation exercises as I feel my shoulders and arms would fall behind slightly without them. Iank suggested a little isolation work with that routine though so it looks good to me. I might try 6 weeks on one over the summer.
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RE: Full body, 3 day split ideas? - May 3 2008 22:15:53
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PAGAN
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I'm intrigued (sp) and a little embarrased not to have a theory of my own on this topic after all my years of training. Assuming growth/ repair of a muscle has been stimulated how quickly can this occur ? we are assuming 48 hrs in the example of these routines no ? I'm not saying this is wrong but I'd just like some views on this point.
Edit - I'd also like some input on why switching exercises that stimulate the same muscles is important , ie. why change the 'push' exercise between the workouts as opposed to benching three times per week ?
< Message edited by PAGAN -- May 3 2008 22:17:56 >
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RE: Full body, 3 day split ideas? - May 3 2008 22:28:55
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jack5r
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^ I have a similar question and I might make a seperate thread for it as it may need some detailed answers.
How exactly does the rate at which the muscles repair work?
I'm not sure if the example below will work or not as I'm sure it is all alot more complicated but as I don't exactly know much about how the muscle fibres are torn and how they are repaired I can't express it in any other way.
Say I have 10 fibres in my muscle and I work them hard so that 8 of the fibres are torn. (1) Will my body repair one fibre fully, then move onto the next fibre untill all 8 are repaired? Or (2) will it begin to repair all 8 at once untill they are all repaired?
Once a fibre is torn/damaged can it be damage even more? So say if I was to do another set and would the 8 muscle fibres be torn again, even deeper or would the remaining two be tawn?
(1) - If the muscle repairs itself this way in this way and I was do lift again before all the muscle fibres had be repaired would I be weaker? Is it actualy necessary for good growth for the muscle to repair itself fully before reworking it?
(2) - Same as the question above for (1).
I have loads more in my head to ask but my mum is moaning at me so I can't get it down right now. I will come back when I can think straight!
Thanks.
< Message edited by jack5r -- May 3 2008 23:38:10 >
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Age - 18
BW - 62kg
Bench - 90kg
Deadlift - 110kgx5
Squat - 90kgx4
quote:
ORIGINAL: pigeonwarrior
But then again I feel like a brute force warrior.
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RE: Full body, 3 day split ideas? - May 3 2008 22:31:57
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jack5r
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PAGAN
I'm intrigued (sp) and a little embarrased not to have a theory of my own on this topic after all my years of training. Assuming growth/ repair of a muscle has been stimulated how quickly can this occur ? we are assuming 48 hrs in the example of these routines no ? I'm not saying this is wrong but I'd just like some views on this point.
Edit - I'd also like some input on why switching exercises that stimulate the same muscles is important , ie. why change the 'push' exercise between the workouts as opposed to benching three times per week ?
Well the switch from Bench to Miliraty Press is more obvious as the shoulders do needed to be targeted and Military press is the best compound for doing this. As for dips, I don't see why it would be necessary to choose dips over bench press as they are pretty much the same in the muscles they recruit, with very little variation. Personal preferance I guess.
< Message edited by jack5r -- May 3 2008 22:32:54 >
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JOURNAL
Age - 18
BW - 62kg
Bench - 90kg
Deadlift - 110kgx5
Squat - 90kgx4
quote:
ORIGINAL: pigeonwarrior
But then again I feel like a brute force warrior.
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RE: Full body, 3 day split ideas? - May 3 2008 22:59:21
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fun meter
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Cant help with the indepth stuff about repair. But volume and intensity will affect this a fair bit. All different types of training though.
Changing the different push exercises allows for a variation (different emphasis of muscles, building more strength in the whole area opposed to just one exercise etc...).
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RE: Full body, 3 day split ideas? - May 4 2008 2:40:40
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Jazz
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I've started a new full body in the last week or so and I'm enjoying it. In fact I've been on full body routines for a while. I'd like to go back to splits (just to see what I used to do) but I only manage to train twice a week so FB's are the best option for me.
Day 01
Bench 5x5
Row 5x5
Military Press 3x5
Curl Variation 3x8
Bulgarian Squats 3x8
Day 02
Dips 5x5
Pull-Ups 5x5
Deadlifts 3x5 / 5x3 / 4x4
Dumbell Press 3x5
Curl Variation 3x8
I've cut down on leg stuff for a bit to concentrate on upper body. I've also found that doing your lower body movements first in a FB can really hinder your upper body work but NOT the other way round.
Anyone else find that ?
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RE: Full body, 3 day split ideas? - May 4 2008 7:49:20
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T0NY
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Here what I'm currently doing
Session 1
Deads
Behind neck jerks
Fronties
Inc Dbells
Session 2
Powercleans
Squats
Benchpress
Military Press
Session 3
Clean Pulls
Jerks from rack
Front Squats
Incline barbell
Session 4
P.Clean and jerk
Flat Dbell bench
Chins
I do 2 of those sessions a week but you could do 3.
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RE: Full body, 3 day split ideas? - May 4 2008 13:23:03
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iaink
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quote:
I saw megadeth in Brixton academy a couple of months ago and it was amazing.
Sure rust in peace and countdown were the better albums but they are still pushing it out compared to some of my other favourite bands, mentioning no 'talica' names
I will Metallica are a better band than Megadeth  . Much better overall material. Even Load and Re-load are better than Megadeths latter output. Still RIP is one of the best Thrash albums of all time, up there with my other 2 favourites Reign In Blood and Master of Puppets.
....Anyway no one can put down an individual specific time that your body recovers from training. To many variables. Your' ll end up finding out for yourself what your body can recover from.
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