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RE: stopped gaining muscle - May 4 2008 16:28:53
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firest0rm
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Those products are basically carbs, and creatine, and expensive at that.
This is your first post here, so I know you haven't had your diet critiqued yet. It would be a good idea popping over to the diet section and having it fully critiqued. This will give you a good idea as to whether it's your diet stopping you gaining muscle, or whether you have indeed hit a plateau and need to look at other avenues.
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RE: stopped gaining muscle - May 4 2008 16:51:46
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bikemad786
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i do eat a hell of alot of food how ever im still 8 stone and im preety tall too aroun 5,10 id say what would be the way around this pleatue?
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RE: stopped gaining muscle - May 4 2008 17:18:50
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firest0rm
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Eating a lot of food doesn't mean you're eating the right food. You could stuff your face with big macs all day for all we know  Get your diet checked, then at least you will know for sure.
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The way of the firest0rm...
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RE: stopped gaining muscle - May 4 2008 17:26:05
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just jake
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I agree, diet is haf the battle. Post up your typical days diet and your program and see if we can make some suggestions
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RE: stopped gaining muscle - May 4 2008 17:31:54
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ThaiFighter
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From: Manchester
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quote:
ORIGINAL: firest0rm
Those products are basically carbs, and creatine, and expensive at that.
This is your first post here, so I know you haven't had your diet critiqued yet. It would be a good idea popping over to the diet section and having it fully critiqued. This will give you a good idea as to whether it's your diet stopping you gaining muscle, or whether you have indeed hit a plateau and need to look at other avenues.
Actually, both have very low carbs, and they don't use carbs as the primary uptake enhancer. Cellmass has only 7g of carbs per serving, and Pro-GF NOx around 19g.
They both contain a huge amount of different ingredients designed to improve traditional creatine update, and the NOx includes pump ingredients, as well as focus and energy products as well.
Whilst I agree he should get his diet sorted first, most people spend more than 26 quid on a round of drinks between mates at the weekend than a supplement that will last a month, and improve the quality of their workouts far more than basic mono. From personal experience, whilst I get sod all from basic creatine mono, I've had great results from Cellmass, as well as the original Pro-GF (not tried the NOx yet).
Creatine is not just creatine anymore - whilst a person may be a creatine mono non-responder, you may respond well (like I do) to Creatine Ethly Ester, Magnesium Creatine Chelate, Creatine Gluconate...or one of the other relatively new creatine's that have come on the market (both in singular products, and blends) over the past 2 yrs or so.
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RE: stopped gaining muscle - May 4 2008 18:31:20
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firest0rm
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You may be right in your more detailed descriptions of the products, however, do you really think that the products in action will help him add muscle? That was the question in his original post. Those products of course have uses, but I'm dubious as to whether they will actually give real world muscle gains. The first is after all a pump product, the second a creatine product. I personally would prefer a cheaper brand, such as all-in-1, however I would never take them expecting to actually gain muscle.
It may be his diet is perfect and he could do with some supplements, although at 15 with his sky high testosterone levels I doubt supplements, especially pump and creatine supplements, will make much of a difference. Testosterone > creatine.
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The way of the firest0rm...
My son has now been born :)
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RE: stopped gaining muscle - May 4 2008 19:39:26
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ThaiFighter
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quote:
ORIGINAL: firest0rm
You may be right in your more detailed descriptions of the products, however, do you really think that the products in action will help him add muscle? That was the question in his original post. Those products of course have uses, but I'm dubious as to whether they will actually give real world muscle gains. The first is after all a pump product, the second a creatine product. I personally would prefer a cheaper brand, such as all-in-1, however I would never take them expecting to actually gain muscle.
It may be his diet is perfect and he could do with some supplements, although at 15 with his sky high testosterone levels I doubt supplements, especially pump and creatine supplements, will make much of a difference. Testosterone > creatine.
I didn't realise he was 15 till you pointed it out - at his age, I would probably want to stick to very basic sups (whey, casein) if any at all, simply because he's more likely to focus then on learning how to work out properly, rather than look for answers outside of his own life style choices.
In terms of those specific products, I definitely think someone who already has a good training program, and a good diet, would be helped by those products (not all products...the two he linked however, are just in my opinion pretty good. Loads of people have tried Cellmass with good effect, and everyone know's CNP are top in terms of quality). The Pro-GF, whilst being a pump product, is kinda like Animal Pump in terms of it also having a daily dose of creatine in there. Both products have also been mixed by experts, trying to get the best proportions of ingredients that work best together. Whilst a cheaper bulk provider may provide some basic products cheaper (e.g. creatine mono), the disadvantages are that:
1) They're very rarely (actually..never to my knowledge) leading edge. If anyone believes otherwise, please point me to the UK bulk supplier who sells 6-Bromo and Creatine Gluconate.
2) They're not really as cheap as everyone thinks anymore.
This second point probably needs some explaining. Yes, when all the bulk suppliers launched, they were massively cheaper. They launched in part because they saw a gap in the market to sell basic supplements at basic costs - because hundreds of thousands of people couldn't afford, or didn't want to spend, 30 quid for a kg of whey powder every month.
Now however, I think times have changes. I'll have to give examples outside myself, cos I don't want to appear spammy...but I know of several retailers who'll sell you a month's supply of No-Xplode (a "premium" brand) for less than you'll get Pulse for with delivery. I also know of several places you can get 5kg of Nutrisport 90+, for less than 50 quid delivered. Even expensive protein blends like CNP's Pro-Pep are available in massive multi-deals of 3 or 5 bags for comparable prices to that delivered by bulk suppliers...when you take into account the exact same specification (i.e. the right blend and that it's flavoured - flavouring a product to taste nice costs money after all).
Brands were over-priced, and a few retailers had massive mark-ups and exploited a tiny market, now the market's bigger...and the internet has made it easy to set up and sell...so competition means that if you look around, there really, honestly isn't that much of a difference between like for like products. In my example of pulse vs. no-xplode for example, pulse is actually more expensive. Not what most people expect.
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RE: stopped gaining muscle - May 4 2008 21:18:22
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bikemad786
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right im taking around two protein shakes a day with whole milk so thats roughly aroung 80g a day give or take a few then i have a bannana or two then a tuna sandwhich or a jaket potato i know i do eat a decent amount
another question im lifting aroun 10kg arm curls and 8kg v curls (sitting down with legs open)
maybe i shud lower my weights and tone my arms up rather than making them bigger.Having said that my biceps are sort of pointy
sorry for the noobish questions
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RE: stopped gaining muscle - May 4 2008 21:38:28
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FatboyGinger
Posts: 953
Joined: Jan. 20 2008
From: Manchester!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bikemad786
right im taking around two protein shakes a day with whole milk so thats roughly aroung 80g a day give or take a few then i have a bannana or two then a tuna sandwhich or a jaket potato i know i do eat a decent amount
another question im lifting aroun 10kg arm curls and 8kg v curls (sitting down with legs open)
maybe i shud lower my weights and tone my arms up rather than making them bigger.Having said that my biceps are sort of pointy
sorry for the noobish questions
Sorry but "toning" does not really exist. Make them bigger, then lose the fat around them to make them "toned". I would advise heavy weights, low reps(about 8 ish). Don't lower the weights.
Diet- not enough protein at all. Also lacking in EFAs and Omega 3. Post your diet in the diet section and they will sort you out.
Then, post your routine and in the section and let people sort that out for you, then you're good to go.
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No Pain No Gain!
Whey protein, Raw egg white, Glutamine, Taurine, Amino 1500, BCAAs, Homemade powder oats, Creatine Mono, CEE, Trib, GABA, AAKG, Multi vits, Fish Oil,Vit B5, Vit C,Melatonin, Ephedrine, Nicotine Gum, Beta Alanine
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RE: stopped gaining muscle - May 4 2008 22:14:48
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firest0rm
Posts: 3937
Joined: May 18 2005
From: Stockport, Manchester
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FatboyGinger
quote:
ORIGINAL: bikemad786
right im taking around two protein shakes a day with whole milk so thats roughly aroung 80g a day give or take a few then i have a bannana or two then a tuna sandwhich or a jaket potato i know i do eat a decent amount
another question im lifting aroun 10kg arm curls and 8kg v curls (sitting down with legs open)
maybe i shud lower my weights and tone my arms up rather than making them bigger.Having said that my biceps are sort of pointy
sorry for the noobish questions
Sorry but "toning" does not really exist. Make them bigger, then lose the fat around them to make them "toned". I would advise heavy weights, low reps(about 8 ish). Don't lower the weights.
Diet- not enough protein at all. Also lacking in EFAs and Omega 3. Post your diet in the diet section and they will sort you out.
Then, post your routine and in the section and let people sort that out for you, then you're good to go.
Very good comment. I've also read that to activate fast twitch muscle fibres you need to do heavy weights. I never understood the light weight loads of reps for toning, it seemed contradictory to me.
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The way of the firest0rm...
My son has now been born :)
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RE: stopped gaining muscle - May 4 2008 22:26:29
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Lucky_jim
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i would save your money
dont buy any supplments and take a long hard look at your training and your diet. get those right and you will grow.
i would nt be messing around with supps at 15. learn the basics - you ve got years and years ahead of you.
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RE: stopped gaining muscle - May 4 2008 22:49:34
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FatboyGinger
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Joined: Jan. 20 2008
From: Manchester!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lucky_jim
i would save your money
dont buy any supplments and take a long hard look at your training and your diet. get those right and you will grow.
i would nt be messing around with supps at 15. learn the basics - you ve got years and years ahead of you.
bikemad you sound like you are in a very similar position to me a year ago. ^^ listen to Jim
If you must buy supplements, Whey is your best bet, and with that you can make your own "Weight Gainers". Optimum Whey is very good, but if you want it cheaper buy from Myprotein.co.uk
_____________________________
No Pain No Gain!
Whey protein, Raw egg white, Glutamine, Taurine, Amino 1500, BCAAs, Homemade powder oats, Creatine Mono, CEE, Trib, GABA, AAKG, Multi vits, Fish Oil,Vit B5, Vit C,Melatonin, Ephedrine, Nicotine Gum, Beta Alanine
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RE: stopped gaining muscle - May 4 2008 23:51:33
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just jake
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all good advise!
i would listen to these guys my friend. there is alot of knowledge in these forums and everybody is more than happy to help out. do not ever underestimate the basics. i would go ahead with whey and post up your diet and training program.
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RE: stopped gaining muscle - May 5 2008 17:20:56
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bikemad786
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rite ok whey it is lol i know best to stay away from most supps i been offered gear in the form of snake and arrow but i know its better to take that when my body is fully developed still its best to avoid that
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RE: stopped gaining muscle - May 5 2008 17:23:05
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ironeater
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bikemad786
rite ok whey it is lol i know best to stay away from most supps i been offered gear in the form of snake and arrow but i know its better to take that when my body is fully developed still its best to avoid that
I dont think you really wanna be fcuking with anadrol lad. That is a very harsh med. My advice, just eat lift and rest. Give it a few years and youll be a fair size if you get it right. Good luck and come back to ask anything before hand if you want a second opinion
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