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sgx.saint -> Beginner Help (May 5 2008 15:30:49)
Hey. I'm a beginner to the world of muscle building and fitness and I am really looking for some expert help over the coming months as I start my journey to getting a leaner, fitter and bulked up body. Here is a piccy of how I look currently... (I can supply more pictures if necessary). I thought I would include one so I could track my progress and you guys can see where I am at right now. [image]http://saint.sumogear.net/fitness/me_03.05.08.jpg[/image] I am 5ft 11, and I am unsure of my exact weight as I don't actually own a pair of scales lol. When I last checked which was around six months ago I weighed 11st 7lbs. My goal is to lose weight, and develop muscle, pretty much every guys goal. It has been years since I have worked out either cardio or weights so I am very new to all of this, and will need some close guidance to help me achieve my goal :) I need to sort my diet out, and I am ready to do this, but I do find it a little confusing. Working out all these ratios, calorie intakes and how much protein to eat per lb of bodyfat. Got a headache from reading all the threads, and other websites! :) Do I need to lose weight first (cutting), or should I go straight to bulking and then cut? What do you think of the below routine, as a starting routine for me? SATURDAY - Chest/Tri 5 Min warm-up Dumbell Flat Bench - 4 sets 6-8 reps Weighted Dips For Chest - 4 sets 6-8 reps (last set to failure) Incline Dumbell Fly- 4 sets 6-8 reps (last set to failure) (Lay so head is at the top of the bench) Skull Crushers - 3 sets 6-8 reps (or close grip bench press) overhead cable presses 3 sets 6-8 reps (last set to fail) (or close grip bench presses) SUNDAY - Back/Bi 5 min warm-up Deadlifts 4 sets 6-8 reps (last set to failure) Bent Over One Arm Dumbell Rows 4 sets 6-8 reps Chins or Lat pulldowns 3 sets 6-8 reps (last set to fail) (I would prefer you to do chins instead though if you are strong enough to lift your bodyweight) Barbell Bicep curl 3 sets 6-8 reps One arm Dumbell Hammer curls 3 sets 6-8 reps MONDAY REST & Cardio (30 mins swimming before brekkie approx 40 lengths) TUESDAY - Delts/traps 5 min warm-up Seated Dumbell military press (Sit on Bench while executing) - 3 sets 6-8 reps Lateral dumbell raises (side) 3 sets 6-8 reps (last to fail) Barbell Shrugs 5 sets 6-8 reps WEDNESDAY REST & Cardio (30 mins swimming b4 brekkie) THURSDAY - Legs & Abs 5 min warm-up Barbell Squats 4 sets 6-8 reps Stiff Legged Dead Lifts 3 sets 6-8 reps Calf Raises (link shows seated) 4 sets 8-10 reps (last set to fail) Weighted Swiss Ball crunches 4 sets 6-8 reps hanging leg raises 4 sets 6-8 reps Dumbell side bends 3 sets 6-8 reps FRIDAY REST & Cardio (30 mins swim b4 brekkie) I would replace the swim with running/jogging and I would also have to re-arrange the days. I'm a little lost as to some of the techniques listed above, but I am reading through a website which explains how to do them and what they are. Oh, before I forget, I have Whey protein ready to go too, strawberry flavour, yum! :P I could really use a hand with working out a day by day diet that I can stick too and also get my right intake of calories etc. I have joined my University Gym also, but I will be working out alone and they don't have gym instructors in the typical sense so I will need a lot of help and support. I really hope you guys will be here for me! :)

just jake -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 16:00:32)
quote: Got a headache from reading all the threads, and other websites! :) well you dont need to shop around. MT is your one stop shop for knowledge. Id say if you went for that routine you would be over training. Remember you are just startinng out so dont go for a routine that a more experianced person would go for. On your rest days you are doing cardio. cardio is still training so it would not be a rest day. rest days should be rest days. post up your diet for us to see. diet is half the battle. I would suggest this approach - tailor your diet and training to loose the body fat and re-evaluate it to gain lean muscle. have a look at the journal section, you can start alog of your training. welcome and weldone for posting up pictures. I know it takes balls to do it.

Mortimer -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 16:08:32)
Hello mate welcome to MT. You'll get plenty of good advice here mate and people here will do all they can to point you in the right direction. Ok i'll go straight to whether you should cut first then bulk..or just start bulking straight away...this may soudn cliched but only you can answer that one. If your happy to start bulking now and can accept a little fat gain along the way then go for it and bulk. Its not like you'll add an instant 10 lbs of fat to you frame over night and by monitoring yourself closely and tweaking your diet you should be able to gain muscle while adding minimal fat staying pretty close to your current condition....and then cut once you've added some mass or maybe even go on a slight cut to shift some excess before forging on with your bulk. Its not always neccesary to go on a complete total cut to get down to a low BF% before bulking again and you could just as easily cut till your happy to bulk again and do it that way..if that makes sense? Or alternatively if your unhappy to add any more fat that you currently have then just cut first. But like i've said only you can answer that one. Even if im a little chubby i'll still bulk. With regards to Nutrition post up your current diet in time form in the diet and nutrition section and have it looked at there. Training wise the routine you've put up i believe is one of Cashmans...if i remember correctly. Its a good routine and you could do a lot worse. That said i'd have gone with something a lot more basic to start with..perhaps: Workout A 3x5 Squat 3x5 Bench Press 1x5 Deadlift Workout B 3x5 Squat 3x5 Standing military press 3x5 Power cleans You train on 3 nonconsecutive days per week. So week 1 might look like: Monday - Workout A Wednesday - Workout B Friday - Workout A Week 2: Monday - Workout B Wednesday - Workout A Friday - Workout B If you choose Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday or Sunday/Tuesday/Thursday as your workout days, the planets won't get knocked out of alignment, so don't sweat this one, as long as you get in 3 workouts on 3 non-consecutive days each week. (copied and pasted) Or go here to see that exact routine along with EXCELLENT advice for a beginner: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224 and also here at these links too: http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-beginners-first-stop.aspx http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-beginners-guide.aspx All great reads and will fit you out with the basic base info to get started.

strikalite -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 19:48:54)
I certainly wouldn't look to try and lose bodyfat at this early stage..you're new to training so muscle gains COULD come quite fast, read the articles above mate in detail....and I agree with Mortimer, keep to compound heavy moves and make sure you eat enough and get lots of rest too..

sgx.saint -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 20:47:16)
Hey. Thanks for the replies guys, I really appreciate the support. I've just bought a cheap pair of scales from Tesco, and according to them I weigh 15 stone 1!! [&:] I honestly do not think I weigh that much, so im tempted to try weighing myself somewhere else. For tea tonight I had a chicken breast which was cooked in the oven, with some salad and a small portion of baked beans. I'm hoping that is a good start! The two main things I need to get sorted are my diet and a routine. I think I will go with bulking, with some cardio thrown in to start and then cut later. How long should I be bulking for? How much cardio should I throw in with say a three day non-consecutive routine? I'll come up with a daily diet and post it up as a couple of you have suggested. On the note of Whey Protein, I know it is advised post work out, but does that include a cardio work out? Also, how soon after a work out should the shake be taken? I've probably got hundreds of more questions, so I'll post them up as I go :)

sgx.saint -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 20:56:57)
quote: Workout A 3x5 Squat 3x5 Bench Press 1x5 Deadlift Workout B 3x5 Squat 3x5 Standing military press 3x5 Power cleans So, to start off, is it really as simple as just doing three different type of exercises, three days a week? So Could I add cardio into the mix so I end up with something like this ...... Wednesday 3x5 Squat 3x5 Bench Press 1x5 Deadlift Thursday Cardio (30 - 45 Mins) Friday 3x5 Squat 3x5 Standing military press 3x5 Power cleans Saturday Rest Sunday 3x5 Squat 3x5 Bench Press 1x5 Deadlift Monday Cardio (30 - 45 Mins) Tuesday Rest How does that look?

just jake -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 21:04:27)
Yeah that looks ok work out wise. Diet is the thing to look into. There is plently of good books available that show what foods good and bad. Buy a mens health or a muscle and fitness mag. (loads of foody ideas in there) 1 tip with the scales though. Keep them in one place all the time. If you move scales from lino to carpet they will not give the same reading. Have to be in the same place. Only weigh yourself once a week, do not get really hung up and jumping on them every mins. Just weigh yourself once and prereferably in the morning.

sgx.saint -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 21:20:16)
So that routine I posted looks good? Any suggested changes? Just re-weighed myself on the scales and it says 14 stone bang on, which is slightly more believable that 15 stone. I will double check though tomorrow at a local Boots Store. How long should I use that beginner routine for?

fun meter -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 21:25:51)
You can get very good advice by reading the beginner articles, and having a look at the diet atricles in the nutrition section, and also http://www.mealplansite.com/ . Stick with a simple routine like above, have a read of the articles on this site, and then start a topic in the nutrition section to help with diet. Hope this helps [:)]

sgx.saint -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 21:40:31)
Yeah, I have had a good read of the articles and they are very helpful. I have posted up my first try at a daily diet on the Nutrition board here.

sgx.saint -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 22:24:10)
Also, in relation to the suggested routine, it says "squat" ... but when I search the exercise database, there are lots of different types. Which one is it? /slaps forehead

just jake -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 22:55:20)
just squat, the classic bar behind the head and squat down

sgx.saint -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 23:05:54)
Thanks! Sorry to be a nuisance, a lot of the terminology and exercises are brand new to me, so I am on a sharp learning curve. With the posted workout above, will I really see big gains from doing only three exercises per day? Plus this is my first attempt at a diet: 07.00 Wake Up --------------- 500ML Water. Whey Protein - 1 scoop w/ water. 08.00 Breakfast --------------- ReadyBrek 2x Slices of Wholemeal Bread Toast w/ sunflower oil spread. Glass of Fruit Juice i.e. fresh orange juice. 11.00 Brunch --------------- 2x Salmon Sandwiches (Two slices of wholemeal bread halved) Bananna 13.00 Lunch --------------- Chicken Breast Fillet Portion of Beans Salad Low Fat Yoghurt 15.00 Afternoon ---------------- 6 Oatcakes 1x Orange 18.00 Tea ---------------- Chicken Breast Fillet Wholemeal Rice/Basmati Rice or Jacket Potatoe Salad/Veg 21.00 Evening ---------------- ReadyBrek 23:00 Bed ---------------- Whey Protein - 1 scoop w/ semi skimmed milk.

just jake -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 23:09:01)
yes you will. all the exercises choosen above are compound moves. Compound moves use many differant muscle groups and are good at mass gaining. When you have done this for a few weeks you can start to add more exercises etc.

sgx.saint -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 23:16:04)
Thanks JJ. As I say, sorry for all the daft questions. One more question, what sort of weight should I be looking at lifting on each exercise? ... Is their a rule of thumb that I can apply here.

just jake -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 23:28:15)
quote: As I say, sorry for all the daft questions. Dont be daft yourself. Thats what this forum is for. Glad to help. There isnt a rule of on what to lift. You would choose differant amounts of reps and set depending on what you want to get out of it. Typicaly if you did low reps around 5 - 8 you would see a strength increase and small muscle gain. If you did 10 - 12 reps per set you would see a small strength gain and a bigger gain in muscle mass. It is all to do with the muscle tissue and when certain tissues are called for use. i.e when you use a rep range of around 5 - 8 reps you use only 1 type of the muscle tissue/fibre you have. I would suggest going for between 8 - 10 reps.Remeber not to go killing yourself, go nice a light and ease into it. Make sure you form is correct!

sgx.saint -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 23:35:43)
Thanks again! :) At this stage, I'd prefer to see a visible gain in muscle mass over having a gain of strength. So, based on what you have said, would my routine change to: Wednesday 3x8 Squat 3x8 Bench Press 1x8 Deadlift Thursday Cardio (30 - 45 Mins) Friday 3x8 Squat 3x8 Standing military press 3x8 Power cleans Saturday Rest Sunday 3x8 Squat 3x8 Bench Press 1x8 Deadlift Monday Cardio (30 - 45 Mins) Tuesday Rest I'm hoping on my University Gym Induction, they will show me how to complete the free weight exercises properly!

DissoluteMan -> RE: Beginner Help (May 5 2008 23:54:00)
Sorry to but in guys, but i found this article very helpful. http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-eating-clean.aspx Hope it helps.

just jake -> RE: Beginner Help (May 6 2008 13:14:44)
quote: Wednesday 3x8 Squat 3x8 Bench Press 1x8 Deadlift Thursday Cardio (30 - 45 Mins) Friday 3x8 Squat 3x10 Standing military press 3x10 Power cleans Saturday Rest Sunday 3x8 Squat 3x10 Bench Press 1x8 Deadlift Monday Cardio (30 - 45 Mins) Tuesday Rest I would do it like that. Personaly I do not like doing any more than 8 reps on Squats or Deadlifts. I think 8 is a good range considering how demanding the exercise is.

sgx.saint -> RE: Beginner Help (May 7 2008 0:52:11)
Thanks JJ. I'll take the workout along to the gym later today and ask the instructor to give me a demonstration of how to perform the exercises. I did a 30 minute cardio session today, using an exercise bike at home. I did sweat buckets, but didn't seem to lose my breath too much. Do you think this enough cardio to shift fat, or should I be looking at doing a different form of cardio? Also, based on the routine above, how long should an average gym session last? Edit: Weighed myself at boots today and got the following results - Weight: 13st 7lb Height: 5ft 10 BMI: 27.1 Body Fat: 23.3% Not sure what to make of the results to be honest lol.

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