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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 9:28:04
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brittas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danchubbz
well with him saying that having your PWO immidiately is a bad thing I guess in his eyes your PPWO shake would be your PWO shake...does that make sense?!?!?
Yeah, but then I'm guessing he recomends taking another shake as your next meal? But that would mean no real food for ages?
It would suit me down to ground with work, but it sounds a bit odd.
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 9:33:53
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danchubbz
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brittas
quote:
ORIGINAL: danchubbz
well with him saying that having your PWO immidiately is a bad thing I guess in his eyes your PPWO shake would be your PWO shake...does that make sense?!?!?
Yeah, but then I'm guessing he recomends taking another shake as your next meal? But that would mean no real food for ages?
It would suit me down to ground with work, but it sounds a bit odd.
Maybe u could try and get the best of both worlds and have a protein shake with some "real" food blended in, like oats, weetabix, banana, milk, etc.
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 10:56:02
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iaink
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quote:
For non-athletes, PWO carbs and glycogen are grossly overrated compared to other supplements/nutrition (like protein).
Definatly! Unless you going to engage in other bouts of exercise later on in the day the ingestion of simple carbs after training is not necessary. Even if your training has depleted your glycogen store's your normal diet will have replenished them by the next time your train i.e 24 hours. So how many of us train several times a day? More like several times a week! 
As for pre-post work out nutrition I would not worry unduly. As long as you have had a good meal an hour or 2 before training and an hour of so after then it'll all be good.
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 11:30:20
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PAGAN
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Having read the article I'm still a little confused.A pre workout meal is apparently good for increasing blood flow etc but ingesting protein imediately post workout is said to decrease protein synthesis by 30% against having your pwo meal an hour later. Surely the pre workout meal will still be being digested , wont this effect the increase in protein synthesis alledged to be caused by waiting an hour ? 
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 11:49:30
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danchubbz
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PAGAN
Having read the article I'm still a little confused.A pre workout meal is apparently good for increasing blood flow etc but ingesting protein imediately post workout is said to decrease protein synthesis by 30% against having your pwo meal an hour later. Surely the pre workout meal will still be being digested , wont this effect the increase in protein synthesis alledged to be caused by waiting an hour ?
that's why I was thinking
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 14:23:43
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danchubbz
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danchubbz
Personally I do push myself hard when I do weights and even though I do not have any scientific backing I listen to my bosy I think a quich dex/whey shake is beneficial to me immidiately after my session.
When he mentions the pre-workout meal to enhance protein synthesis during your session could someone help him break that down a bit more clearly as what falls under pre-WO. For example I eat a complex carb and protein meal (Usually something like a sweet potato, chicken and brocolli) about 60-90 minutes before I train would this "qualify" or is there too long a gab?
Does he mean a type of carb and whey drink being drunk as your arriving at the gym for best results?
can I get a BUMP on this?!
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 14:53:46
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danchubbz
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Nigeepoo
Are you expecting a reply from David or me? Your original reply was to me but it referred to something David typed.
sorry it was out there to whoever was kind enough to give the advice!!!
wouldn't go far wrong by having your thoughts on it though Nige!
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 14:56:33
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iaink
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quote:
about 60-90 minutes before I train would this "qualify" or is there too long a gab?
I would say that def qualifyes. You'd still be digesting that meal when you enter the gym, and beyond.
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 14:59:17
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danchubbz
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iaink
quote:
about 60-90 minutes before I train would this "qualify" or is there too long a gab?
I would say that def qualifyes. You'd still be digesting that meal when you enter the gym, and beyond.
that's the impression I was under, might start adding some BCAA's just before I train, if nothing else hopefully I will help with my recovery.
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 15:02:09
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iaink
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quote:
BCAA's just before I train, if nothing else hopefully I will help with my recovery.
I honestly don't think it will. If you have had a decent quaility protein source in that meal you would already have a good dose of BCAA. I have no idea whether an extra mega dose prior to training would have any further effect on protein balance post training. My guess would be no.
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 16:51:10
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R3261
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quote:
For more information check out Myth #1 in The Top 10 Post-Workout Myths
i love it how it takes research out of context mate
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 17:18:40
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danchubbz
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quote:
ORIGINAL: R3261
quote:
For more information check out Myth #1 in The Top 10 Post-Workout Myths
i love it how it takes research out of context mate
how do u mean?
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 18:06:37
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David Barr
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There's a lot to cover here, so I'll try to be brief.
-I would never tell anyone to abstain from consuming a protein shake immediately PWO, it's just not optimal.
-we should never be in a protein fasted state, so waiting for 15-20 minutes PWO to drink shouldn't be a problem.
-ideally we want to use fast carbs and hydrolysate pre-workout so there's no digestion involved. That way they are not affected by the transient protein resistance we experience immediately PWO.
I think that's got it!
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 18:10:11
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theiopener
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Dave
1. What is optimal, please quantify it in terms of real world results and differences
2. you will never be in a fasted protein state unless your intake is seriously low to begin with and your output is very high
3. why would you want to use fast carbs and protein pre-wo, this will cause a crash in the majority of trainers and make them sluggish and performance in the gym willsuffer
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 18:11:22
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David Barr
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I try to be respectful but at this point I have little tolerance for hit and run jabs like this. I strongly encourage questioning and debate, but that post is tantamount to throwing a stone and then running away with your tail between your legs before it lands. It contributes nothing.
Of course this could simply be a misunderstanding, in which case disregard the above. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: R3261
i love it how it takes research out of context mate
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 18:16:24
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richsINS
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So far i've read pre workout meal is awesome, Post workout should be two protein shakes for double whammy, oh but whey in protein shakes suck so use umm hydrolysate or ammino acids.
Woooosh, all these body building "myths" getting their ass kicked lately, lets keep the discussion going. This could be good stuff!
TIo, apparently not...but maybe  :
quote:
FAQ: Doesn’t consuming carbs before a workout cause a blood sugar crash during the workout?
A: Usually no, our catecholamine response seems to keep out blood sugar elevated without problems. But if you’re just starting to try this, consume carbs during the workout or have them ready just in case.
Source: http://www.raisethebarr.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65&Itemid=88&limitstart=11
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8th May: 5.8lbs to go(i blame the cheat meal) | 14th May: 2.8lbs to go.....Still cutting....
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 18:32:20
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R3261
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quote:
I try to be respectful but at this point I have little tolerance for hit and run jabs like this. I strongly encourage questioning and debate, but that post is tantamount to throwing a stone and then running away with your tail between your legs before it lands. It contributes nothing.
Of course this could simply be a misunderstanding, in which case disregard the above.
mate i don't have time atm
bunch of things to do. not to forget the running, tail between my legs and what not
when i do i shall raise my concerns with your article
then debate if you want
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 8 2008 18:34:08
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David Barr
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We're starting to tread on the information I cover in the books so I'd like to avoid any kind of detail here. Your questions are valid, it's just that I spent so damn long writing them. lol
As for the pre-workout problems, they're easily avoided. I've never had anyone follow my instructions and have issues with blood sugar, nausea, or sluggishness.
For example: Start off with a half drink the first time, and do not train legs on this day.
Edit: spelling
quote:
ORIGINAL: theiopener
1. What is optimal, please quantify it in terms of real world results and differences
2. you will never be in a fasted protein state unless your intake is seriously low to begin with and your output is very high
3. why would you want to use fast carbs and protein pre-wo, this will cause a crash in the majority of trainers and make them sluggish and performance in the gym willsuffer
< Message edited by David Barr -- May 8 2008 18:36:28 >
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