Bookmark this thread:     |
Login  | |
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 10 2008 19:34:36
| |
|
richsINS
Posts: 7895
Joined: Jun. 23 2004
From: London, United Kingdom
Status: offline
|
Appreciate you both discussing this guys! 
We can only further our knowledge!
So far, PWO shake wins? Any debates as to the contents or ratio of the shake? Carbs and pro? Just pro? etc. Ty
_____________________________
1st april: 17lbs to go | 7th april: 11.2lbs to go. | 14th april: 10.6lbs to to go | 21st april: 8.25lbs to go. | 29th april: 6.7lbs to go. |
8th May: 5.8lbs to go(i blame the cheat meal) | 14th May: 2.8lbs to go.....Still cutting....
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 10 2008 19:42:36
| |
|
theiopener
Posts: 18219
Joined: Jan. 6 2007
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: richsINS
So far, PWO shake wins? Any debates as to the contents or ratio of the shake? Carbs and pro? Just pro? etc. Ty
No it does not win nor does it lose. You will still have aminos entering the bloodstream with solid protein sources and powders like casein whole egg etc.
The whole basis from what i understand is that youre in a catabolic state and aminos in the blood are next to nothing, well that IMO is nonsense
Recovery/growth and whatever else comes into it is not limited by the so called PWO window of opportunity. As long as you have some food whether it be shake or whole food based around your workouts then you will grow/cut/recover just fine
As also stated previously you may continue burning fat after your WO till your next solid meal which may help you stay lean while packing on lean mass as you are not spiking your insulin and taking advantage of the bodies metabolic state
All in all the body is a very complex machine and no one method is guaranteed to give results universally, how do you understand this complex machine, you dont you keep it simple and thats the key IMO if you want to make progression
_____________________________
Journal
www.healthyaction.co.uk
www.undergroundmuscle.co.uk
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 10 2008 19:51:39
| |
|
richsINS
Posts: 7895
Joined: Jun. 23 2004
From: London, United Kingdom
Status: offline
|
Well the "Fat burning" post workout is meaningless isnt it? Assuming net calorie intake is the same, wheter we have a shake and stop it or dont the calories we've burnt and therefore the total fat loss over say ~1 week would be the same. We may burn fat, then store the digested calories of the meal later... than vice versa(Burn meal, spare fat till later).
The post workout meal vs shake to me seems superior in nutrients (from the whole food) and avoiding hunger panges/blood sugar chrashes(which i think i had one of yesturday 2hours post workout!) that a high GI shake may bring. However if the stomach has emptied along time ago, absorption starts soon as food hits the intestine right?
So if we eat 3hours before a workout, then a shake should hit the stomach and pass into the intestine being absorbed rapidly vs a meal that requires more digestion time.
So we'd perhaps avoid a catabolic muscle loss state... which would depend on our meal consumed previously and glycogen/energy stores right?
I guess the benifit would be rapid absorption which prevents a catabolic state, no other benifit though?
_____________________________
1st april: 17lbs to go | 7th april: 11.2lbs to go. | 14th april: 10.6lbs to to go | 21st april: 8.25lbs to go. | 29th april: 6.7lbs to go. |
8th May: 5.8lbs to go(i blame the cheat meal) | 14th May: 2.8lbs to go.....Still cutting....
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 10 2008 19:53:36
| |
|
theiopener
Posts: 18219
Joined: Jan. 6 2007
Status: online
|
you wont go catabolic mate. it takes weeks and months to build muscle do you honestly think youre gonna lose everything in a few hours 
this is a classic example of science blinding everyones progress, who cares what some techie in a white lab coat says is optimal/best. Basics win every time, if you wanna understand the science then study nutrition as a qualification, most over analysis like this only hinders trainers in the short and long term
Before shakes were around physiques were still built all the same
Our bodies are in catabolic and anabolic states within 24 hours of the day, you cant be in a purely catabolic or anabolic state for a whole day as that would disrupt homeostasis
< Message edited by theiopener -- May 10 2008 19:58:17 >
_____________________________
Journal
www.healthyaction.co.uk
www.undergroundmuscle.co.uk
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 10 2008 20:08:19
| |
|
dazc
Posts: 4611
Joined: Apr. 2 2003
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
|
i think that if you were in overall calorie deficit then the pwo protocol is going to make more difference that those in calorie surplus
in fact after readint this thread and thining about it, id go so far as to say were i cutting, i think i may well consider leaving the pwo shake and just having solid food half an hour to an hour after workout
_____________________________
treasurer of the ' NOT ALL MEN ARE BASTARDS' movement.
championing the cause of decent guys everywhere
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 10 2008 20:10:10
| |
|
theiopener
Posts: 18219
Joined: Jan. 6 2007
Status: online
|
Daz in my humble uninformed opinion i think nutrient timing plays a far more important role than overall calories across the board
this is going by what i have learned by my own body and have seen in others. Like i say the modern day supps of today werent around back in the 80's and before that yet we still saw awesome physiques all the same
_____________________________
Journal
www.healthyaction.co.uk
www.undergroundmuscle.co.uk
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 10 2008 20:29:41
| |
|
richsINS
Posts: 7895
Joined: Jun. 23 2004
From: London, United Kingdom
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: theiopener
you wont go catabolic mate. it takes weeks and months to build muscle do you honestly think youre gonna lose everything in a few hours
this is a classic example of science blinding everyones progress, who cares what some techie in a white lab coat says is optimal/best. Basics win every time, if you wanna understand the science then study nutrition as a qualification, most over analysis like this only hinders trainers in the short and long term
Lol, i dont think anyone thinks we'll lose all our muscle due to one protein shake or lack of
Science is interesting, i dont think learning it is a problem at all and one can have an interest without doing a degree. Providing you dont try to apply the finding of every study you read to your own life and create some complex system thats impossible to follow then its fine.
Infact, im sure youve read numerous diet forums and books yourself, your not at uni though are you? 
Small things like deciding between using PWO shakes or real food meals are important for a few reasons:
1 - When cutting PWO shakes take away calories which could be hungry preventing big meals, so removing them in this sense can help me cut.
2 - PWO whey and/or dext/malt/other carbs cost extra money... no need to blow cash pointlessly.
3 - The difference in the real world is either cooking some rice and chicken or drinking a drink, so no hassle at all.
Basics are fine, i consider drinking a shake or not to be very basic though.
_____________________________
1st april: 17lbs to go | 7th april: 11.2lbs to go. | 14th april: 10.6lbs to to go | 21st april: 8.25lbs to go. | 29th april: 6.7lbs to go. |
8th May: 5.8lbs to go(i blame the cheat meal) | 14th May: 2.8lbs to go.....Still cutting....
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 10 2008 23:32:21
| |
|
FatboyGinger
Posts: 619
Joined: Jan. 20 2008
From: Manchester!
Status: online
|
Dave dave dave, where are you....
_____________________________
No Pain No Gain!
Whey protein, Raw egg white, Glutamine, Taurine, Amino 1500, BCAAs, Homemade powder oats, Creatine Mono, CEE, Trib, GABA, AAKG, Multi vits, Fish Oil,Vit B5, Vit C,Melatonin, Ephedrine, Nicotine Gum
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 11 2008 2:55:36
| |
|
dazc
Posts: 4611
Joined: Apr. 2 2003
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: FatboyGinger
Dave dave dave, where are you....
not a chance he will post in this thread again, even if we bump it everytime hes online! conveniently forgotten that he started a debate and hasnt been back to substanciate his claims of fact
_____________________________
treasurer of the ' NOT ALL MEN ARE BASTARDS' movement.
championing the cause of decent guys everywhere
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 11 2008 4:11:47
| |
|
loz_86
Posts: 425
Joined: Jun. 14 2007
Status: offline
|
i always feel absolutely f*ucked after a workout, even with a good meal beforehand, and cant wait for my 50g whey / 50g glucose :)
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 11 2008 10:27:13
| |
|
strikalite
Posts: 541
Joined: Sep. 16 2007
Status: offline
|
Could we therefore say that PWO nutrition is all about the gap between your last meal prior to your workout and the intake after your workout? To keep it simple, if I had a meal 1-1.5 hrs prior to workout....worked out for 45mins...then had another meal an hour later(carbs,protein,fats)would the 50g protein shake I currently have straight after my workout be THAT benificial?
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 11 2008 11:22:08
| |
|
theiopener
Posts: 18219
Joined: Jan. 6 2007
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: strikalite
Could we therefore say that PWO nutrition is all about the gap between your last meal prior to your workout and the intake after your workout? To keep it simple, if I had a meal 1-1.5 hrs prior to workout....worked out for 45mins...then had another meal an hour later(carbs,protein,fats)would the 50g protein shake I currently have straight after my workout be THAT benificial?
LOL nope
all this nonsense about going catabolic is overhyped BS, you have adequate calories and nutrition in your before you workout and pretty much during as its still digesting by the time you hit the weights and perhaps even after so the notion of PWO shakes becoming "optimal" is untrue. I have waited 5 hours sometimes between my pre and post workout meal, its about totals and nutrient timing.
_____________________________
Journal
www.healthyaction.co.uk
www.undergroundmuscle.co.uk
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 11 2008 17:25:08
| |
|
R3261
Posts: 2399
Joined: Jul. 27 2007
Status: offline
|
unless at the elite level, where every fraction of a per cent matters,
as long as your getting a decent hit of quality pro/ sufficient carbs ~ the w/o it doesn't really matter where they come from
food or shake. either is fine
_____________________________
Journal
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 11 2008 17:46:55
| |
|
iaink
Posts: 2171
Joined: Jan. 3 2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
this is a classic example of science blinding everyones progress, who cares what some techie in a white lab coat says is optimal/best. Basics win every time, if you wanna understand the science then study nutrition as a qualification, most over analysis like this only hinders trainers in the short and long term
Before shakes were around physiques were still built all the same
Our bodies are in catabolic and anabolic states within 24 hours of the day, you cant be in a purely catabolic or anabolic state for a whole day as that would disrupt homeostasis
Good stuff! I am one of those 'whit lab coat' guys and I agree
_____________________________
"Now the time is near, for Iron Man to spread his fear"
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 11 2008 21:16:25
| |
|
T0NY
Posts: 5640
Joined: Feb. 8 2005
From: Bonny Scotland
Status: online
|
I've never had a post workout shake with or without glucose.
Does that prove anything?
**** knows.
_____________________________
My Journal @Sugden Barbell
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 11 2008 22:11:40
| |
|
Riocat
Posts: 941
Joined: Jan. 14 2008
From: Northwest
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: T0NY
I've never had a post workout shake with or without glucose.
Does that prove anything?
**** knows.
Can i just ask Tony, Why? And dont get me wrong, judging by your pics in general the other week it aint done you any harm so why did you choose to ignor the hype (so to speak) and not have PWO? What your protocol following a weights session? Thanks mate, just interested thats all
_____________________________
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 12 2008 10:52:36
| |
|
T0NY
Posts: 5640
Joined: Feb. 8 2005
From: Bonny Scotland
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Riocat
quote:
ORIGINAL: T0NY
I've never had a post workout shake with or without glucose.
Does that prove anything?
**** knows.
Can i just ask Tony, Why? And dont get me wrong, judging by your pics in general the other week it aint done you any harm so why did you choose to ignor the hype (so to speak) and not have PWO? What your protocol following a weights session? Thanks mate, just interested thats all
Just never bothered mate. I usually plan to eat my tea after I've trained but sometimes when I'm on call I may go straight to work after the gym so don't get anything for a couple of hours.
People get far too anal about it all, imo unless professional all you need is a very basic understanding of nutrition.
_____________________________
My Journal @Sugden Barbell
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 12 2008 10:59:16
| |
|
iaink
Posts: 2171
Joined: Jan. 3 2006
Status: offline
|
Good stuff Tony.
PS I've posted a good pic of you and Jonny on Boar's log here 
_____________________________
"Now the time is near, for Iron Man to spread his fear"
| |
|
|
RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 12 2008 11:33:59
| |
|
Riocat
Posts: 941
Joined: Jan. 14 2008
From: Northwest
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: T0NY
quote:
ORIGINAL: Riocat
quote:
ORIGINAL: T0NY
I've never had a post workout shake with or without glucose.
Does that prove anything?
**** knows.
Can i just ask Tony, Why? And dont get me wrong, judging by your pics in general the other week it aint done you any harm so why did you choose to ignor the hype (so to speak) and not have PWO? What your protocol following a weights session? Thanks mate, just interested thats all
Just never bothered mate. I usually plan to eat my tea after I've trained but sometimes when I'm on call I may go straight to work after the gym so don't get anything for a couple of hours.
People get far too anal about it all, imo unless professional all you need is a very basic understanding of nutrition.
Interesting, thanks tony
_____________________________
| |
|
|
Printable Version
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread