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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 14 2008 14:27:14
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drewsky
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From: Healthy Action Nutriton Consultancy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iaink
Good post Drew but this has drifted into athletic perofmance rather than increasing protein balance and therefor chronic changes in muscle mass through a shake, which was my assumption the discssuion was about?
A lot of the above factors will translate into changes in muscle mass. Performace in the setting of good diet and recovery is what hypertrophy is based upon. Increasing protein balance obviously depends upon physiological and biochemical factors and properties but what that translates into and what leads to these 'biochemical/physiological states' is actually much more important for the trainee. As I said, the science is very interesting (it's something I'd like to take further myself) but the results are really what we're interested in.
quote:
ORIGINAL: iaink
From an atheltic persepective some nutrition to help fuel training, particulary longer training bouts, I am sure is in some way benficial, dependent on many factors you have mentioned.
And for repetitive weight training bouts as well, the importance being based upon type of training protocols, goals, frequency etc
quote:
ORIGINAL: iaink
quote:
It allows people to perform at a higher intensity for longer, and concentrate at the same time. Dependent on modality of training Yep!
It is the right intake procedure with regards to reflux, wet burps and other GI distress (this is a good example where CHO type is really important).
It has positive implications for hydration (again CHO type important)
It allows people to recover more quickly - based not only how they feel but how they perform. From repeated bouts of training of course, but this is practice I'm talking about
It allows people a more successful and higher total training volume. Again depenent on modality of exercise Of course, many may not want or need this
It allows people more CHO intake and great total cal load before significant fat mass and weight changes are seen (important for both physique and sport including of course weight class sports) Why would intake at other times non peri (ie imediatly prior and post) not allow this To certain extent they would but this is a specifically very useful time with regards to upregulated glycogen resynthesis etc
It seems to help people on the health side reducing the frequency of illness and injury. What mechnaism exhist to claim this beyond what you feel may happen? With injury decreased fatigue would be the clearest one I would point to which would translate into better movement patters, people not going 'off skill', and better concentration. In terms of illness where is a few things I could guess at but the immune system is so complex with so many components that it would be pure speculation with a large dose of educated guess added. Obviously the endocrine facets of the picture are clear but there's also a lot else going on.
While you make sensible recomendations I feel you are over egging the importance of highly specific peri nutrition, and here I feel 'never the twain shall meet'!  (at least at the monent!)
This has been a good thread!
Over egg, moi?!
Of course mate, it's all shades of grey. I'm open to using anything that will help, and of course it high situation specific I'm just taking a general view and saying what I have found to be useful in most cases.
< Message edited by drewsky -- May 14 2008 14:43:23 >
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 14 2008 14:53:11
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danchubbz
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Joined: Jan. 12 2007
From: Cardiff
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Drew, with u saying it's better to get a lot of your carbs all around your training to get in your cal intake without increasing the chance of fat storage u aren't sold with the whole it's cals in vs cals out being the only factor of body compisition if u have adequate protein and EFA's?
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 14 2008 15:01:09
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drewsky
Posts: 2777
Joined: Nov. 2 2005
From: Healthy Action Nutriton Consultancy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danchubbz
u aren't sold with the whole it's cals in vs cals out being the only factor of body compisition if u have adequate protein and EFA's?
No, I'm not, certainly not in people who are exercising to a significant degree.
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Registered Nutritionist & Certified Strength and Conditioning Coach with:
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 14 2008 15:04:36
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danchubbz
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From: Cardiff
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drewsky
quote:
ORIGINAL: danchubbz
u aren't sold with the whole it's cals in vs cals out being the only factor of body compisition if u have adequate protein and EFA's?
No, I'm not, certainly not in people who are exercising to a significant degree.
It seems to be the new "in thing" on this forum as of late with numerous threads saying timings of meals being over-rated, cutting out the PWO protocal, etc
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 14 2008 15:08:42
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R3261
Posts: 2558
Joined: Jul. 27 2007
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quote:
R3261 I've spent far too much time tolerating your sarcasm, blatant insults, and disrespect in the hope of great conversation. In spite of your level of knowledge you have just shown that you are no longer worth dealing with
i find this incredibly insulting (from your article)
The Top Ten Things Wrong With Our Post Workout Information," let’s get to the myths that have developed, and the current reality
you now admit your suggestions are nothing more than your opinion.
it is not good enough to defend your approach by saying " Hello I'm David Barr. I can extrapolate all I want and it's all fine and dandy because I'm David Barr"
stepping out of the debate without answering your criticisms is weak. you are here to sell a product, and you must be accept criticism in all it's forms.
i find it hard to believe you are stepping out of the discussion because of a few harsh words from somebody you do not know, a million miles away
i do believe my behaviour is out of line of line. the product is a pile of pants. this is my opinion. it is a rip-off, and i will be as blunt about this as i can
< Message edited by R3261 -- May 14 2008 15:09:58 >
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 14 2008 15:20:28
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drewsky
Posts: 2777
Joined: Nov. 2 2005
From: Healthy Action Nutriton Consultancy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danchubbz
quote:
ORIGINAL: drewsky
quote:
ORIGINAL: danchubbz
u aren't sold with the whole it's cals in vs cals out being the only factor of body compisition if u have adequate protein and EFA's?
No, I'm not, certainly not in people who are exercising to a significant degree.
It seems to be the new "in thing" on this forum as of late with numerous threads saying timings of meals being over-rated, cutting out the PWO protocal, etc
It's a pendulum mate, it swings one way and then the other. It is important, but how important versus how doable it is day to day is an issue of course.
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Drew Price BSc MASc
Registered Nutritionist & Certified Strength and Conditioning Coach with:
My Blog
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RE: Dextrose in PWO Shake? - May 14 2008 15:29:36
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James
Posts: 25251
Joined: Nov. 10 2000
From: healthyaction.co.uk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: R3261
quote:
R3261 I've spent far too much time tolerating your sarcasm, blatant insults, and disrespect in the hope of great conversation. In spite of your level of knowledge you have just shown that you are no longer worth dealing with
i find this incredibly insulting (from your article)
The Top Ten Things Wrong With Our Post Workout Information," let’s get to the myths that have developed, and the current reality
you now admit your suggestions are nothing more than your opinion.
it is not good enough to defend your approach by saying " Hello I'm David Barr. I can extrapolate all I want and it's all fine and dandy because I'm David Barr"
stepping out of the debate without answering your criticisms is weak. you are here to sell a product, and you must be accept criticism in all it's forms.
i find it hard to believe you are stepping out of the discussion because of a few harsh words from somebody you do not know, a million miles away
i do believe my behaviour is out of line of line. the product is a pile of pants. this is my opinion. it is a rip-off, and i will be as blunt about this as i can
R - suggestions are always opinion in this game
David did not say that. He is here to sell a product AND to contribute to the Iron Game
I don't find it hard to believe, because, as a professional I have sat where he has sat many times, and some people find it hard to drop, in a science which has no conclusion
Interesting that you believe you behaviour out of line.
David - R3261 - is a good member though and usually helps alot of newbies out with good info.
Anyway, I agree with Iain, this had been a good thread, but both Drew and I feel it's time to go to bed now. I feel that the opinion of 2 mods is sufficient - if anyone doesn't let me know and I'll ask others
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