Is there anything available over-the-counter that can be used as PCT for a sustanon cycle? cheers. I can't get hold of any nolvadex or clomid.

Good question personally i dont know im simply not experienced enough,

But I am intrested in seeing what responses you get.

dont go on cycle then

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Is there anything available over-the-counter that can be used as PCT for a sustanon cycle? cheers. I can't get hold of any nolvadex or clomid.

No. No SERM, no cycle.....simple really

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surprised if you got hold of sus you cant get a serm?

ORIGINAL: James21

surprised if you got hold of sus you cant get a serm?

Same here! Hard to belive actually.

fah_gedda_boudit: "At the end of the day I don't think it really matters what it tastes like. If the liquid stuff is what you can get, well ger'it down yer neck & cowboy up"

I know, everyone sells HcG as a serm.

I think one could argue that with the right gear at the right dosage and right length of time would cause limited suppression in which a PCT would not really be necessary.

ORIGINAL: wcrises

I think one could argue that with the right gear at the right dosage and right length of time would cause limited suppression in which a PCT would not really be necessary.

How would you go about arguing that then?

My OTC Steroids first cycle advice article

Courtsey of author L. Rea, in regard to Deca at a dosage of 200mg for 4 weeks.

'Novices that had normal LH/FSH levels prior to nandrolone administration showed an average decrease in LH/FSH of only about 33% at day 21 and 39% at day 28. Additionally at day 42 (2 weeks after discontinuance) LH/FSH level were only suppress an average of 21% thus showing a positive rebound effect. '

Thus he argues that PCT here is not necessary. You can decide for yourself whether you agree.

Have you got more of that study or a link to the full version mate? Interesting stuff.

My OTC Steroids first cycle advice article

He doesn't say a lot more about it really. I mean any drug will cause some suppression, but some less than others. The short of it, is that with a cycle of up to 4 weeks with the right drugs, pct may not be neccesary. Although possible advisable.

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/rea/030324.htm ---full question and answer is here

tbh at the end of the day

your body, your decision

I still don't see any advocation there for not running a pct. In fact, there was still a 21% suppression at the two week stage and that after a cycle lasting only 4 weeks. That as not a clinical trial of any sort, there are no references, quantity of participants etc etc

If, going back to your original suggestion, one could argue that with the right cycle of the right gear there would be no need for pct, I'm still wondering how you would argue that point, what cycles you'd suggest and what research backs the theory up?

Not flaming by the way, just feel its a very bold statement that deserves discussion.

My OTC Steroids first cycle advice article

I dont think it's bold at all; simple extrapolation applies here. if you took, i dont know, 50mg eow over 6 weeks then that's not going to be very harsh at all. It's gradation, no?

My SD cycle log

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_2788118/tm.htm

ORIGINAL: wcrises

I think one could argue that with the right gear at the right dosage and right length of time would cause limited suppression in which a PCT would not really be necessary.

ahahahahaha

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Lots of things supress hormones other than steroids. and people dont take hormone optimization drugs for that.

it all goes back to what you mean by 'need pct'....

there arent clear cut and definitive trials of most new designer steroids available on the web so from experience on forums etc, most people use serms to keep gains and to avoid gyno.. so its a matter of personal preference to be honest.

ORIGINAL: RichardHead

I know, everyone sells HcG as a serm.

What?
In what way is Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin a selective estrogen receptor modulator? HCG mimics LF/FSH to induce the testes to produce testosterone etc. It doesn't selectively block estrogen receptors.

fah_gedda_boudit: "At the end of the day I don't think it really matters what it tastes like. If the liquid stuff is what you can get, well ger'it down yer neck & cowboy up"

ORIGINAL: wcrises

I think one could argue that with the right gear at the right dosage and right length of time would cause limited suppression in which a PCT would not really be necessary.

And I would argue that if the gear isn't strong enough to shut you down to the point where you need PCT after it that it probably isn't strong enough to give you the kind of gains one would 'expect' from gear.

Back to the original post, if he's taking enough Sus to have decent gains; say 250-500mg/week for 8-12 weeks. He WILL be shut down, he will need a PCT, OR he may grow boobies.

Cue loads of posts about how Arnie never did PCT and he stayed on DBol almost permanently and took shedloads of Primo too. And then replies of, if Arnie had had PCT available to him he would have used it.

fah_gedda_boudit: "At the end of the day I don't think it really matters what it tastes like. If the liquid stuff is what you can get, well ger'it down yer neck & cowboy up"

At the end of the day steroids have different affects on different people so i would say to run a PCT just in case. Its not worth the risks IMO