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[Poll]
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Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion
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| No UGL Discussion |
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| No Names of UGL Allowed |
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| Do Not Change |
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| Wrongun i want to have your babies |
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Total Votes : 48
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(last vote on : May 10 2008 21:48:01)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 18:29:05
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Wrongun
Posts: 3763
Joined: Sep. 9 2001
From: United Kingdom
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As per the title of this thread as i get asked so many times and over the years the board has been accused so many times of ''censoring'' discussion on specific UG Labs.
So as to put the issue to rest:
Many boards (especially USA ones) have now banned all discussion on UG labs end of story the thread is deleted and the member banned especially since the DEA conducted Operation Raw Deal which saw over 150 UG labs busted.
MT took the stance many years ago not to have UG lab discussion but it proved impossible and you would not believe the accusations that went round about favoritism etc and we realised that it was a major part of the topic we discuss so relaxed the rule somewhat and believe it has allowed discussion to flow but has made the job of moderating the site harder.
So with that in mind here are the three main reasons why MT only allow discussion on use of the Med and limit / try to eliminate discussion on UG lab brand
1) and most important the rules - MuscleTalk is not a place to sell (or buy) illicit substances. Please refrain from such postings
2) UG labs are illegal no matter what Country you are in and MT is a legal board
3) UG labs are part of the sport we accept that but open discussion does neither the user or the lab any assistance. Have a look at this link:
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/programs/forensicsci/microgram/mg0408/mg0408.html
Look at photo 2 yes the great Stealth Sachet! not so stealth now but it does not take Sherlock or his assistance Holmes to google and read many boards giving chapter and verse on how clever this idea is from a UG lab
Now please can we ask that we ensure discussion is about the use of AAS in the sport as rightly or wrongly it is a major part and the debate on if it should be legal or not is one for the Government but at the time of this post it is illegal in many part of the world but what is for certain UG Labs are illegal everywhere no matter what Country you are in.
Out of interest i have made this thread a poll to see how many wish to ban it altogether i.e. names of labs or want to still discuss the use of certain brands. The results of the poll will not be acted upon as that is a decision for the board owners who constantly check the legality of what we discuss and is not something that is being reviewed to my knowledge but would like to know out of interest what the general feeling is as i have noted many boards have stopped it all.
Wrongun!
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 18:50:55
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Genics
Posts: 4955
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From: Edinburgh
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i voted i want your babys.
i kind of agree how ever i think it is essential people should be able to speak of UG labs when there is bad experiences involved. For instance the recent threads indicating Axio is going down the pan..this is important as if they are going to **** people need to know about it!
its more the fact there are to many sources on the board all with their own agenda and the second anyone bad mouths any product on their list they isntantly cry that you have some agenda against said lab becuase your selling it. when in reality it is them with the agenda.
end of the day tho there is way to much political bs on forums due to members being connected to labs sources bla bla and this includes mods all over the bodybuilding forums imo.
infact maybe should ban all UG chat except when someones health is perhaps at risk?
< Message edited by Genics -- May 9 2008 18:52:10 >
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 19:05:54
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stewedw
Posts: 326
Joined: Apr. 15 2006
From: back of beyond
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I'd leave it the way it is. We should in this country be able to discuss things as we please as long as we do not solict on this board or share details regarding prices and sources.
It might harm an UG lab if we keep talking about them? tough for them in my opinion. I get my gear from realiable sources, for a price I feel is fair, I have tried various brands and as long as they are clean sterile and do the job then I would like to advise other on this.
Labs will come and go, preventing discussion of labs would not benefit anyone -- unless of course MT finds that it hinders their marketting opportunities? In which case this is different. Why not have a private board that costs a one off fee to joi, this way we can talk about what we want?
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 19:23:09
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Wrongun
Posts: 3763
Joined: Sep. 9 2001
From: United Kingdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Genics
i voted i want your babys.
i kind of agree how ever i think it is essential people should be able to speak of UG labs when there is bad experiences involved. For instance the recent threads indicating Axio is going down the pan..this is important as if they are going to **** people need to know about it!
its more the fact there are to many sources on the board all with their own agenda and the second anyone bad mouths any product on their list they isntantly cry that you have some agenda against said lab becuase your selling it. when in reality it is them with the agenda.
end of the day tho there is way to much political bs on forums due to members being connected to labs sources bla bla and this includes mods all over the bodybuilding forums imo.
infact maybe should ban all UG chat except when someones health is perhaps at risk?
Agree its an essential part love it or hate it this day and age it is long gone are the days of fina pellets and ''magic solution''!
There will always be agenda's or conspiracy theories no matter what subject you discuss its a easy way out when someone does not like what another is saying but also it can be true. Thats hard to moderate or curtail without a total ban of the subject matter but if we do that then as you say if something is bad / dangerous who makes the decision if it can be discussed or not and then you get back into the agenda debate.
Hard one mate as you say
Wrongun!
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 19:30:01
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Jake
Posts: 2289
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MuscleTalk is not a place to sell (or buy) illicit substances. Please refrain from such postings
No No No this is nothing about sources
Wrongun!
< Message edited by Wrongun -- May 9 2008 19:32:24 >
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 19:30:53
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Wrongun
Posts: 3763
Joined: Sep. 9 2001
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stewedw
I'd leave it the way it is. We should in this country be able to discuss things as we please as long as we do not solict on this board or share details regarding prices and sources.
Agreed and how it is but remeber we are the WWW (world wide web) which means we also have members from the EU, USA Africa etc etc but agree freedom of speach
It might harm an UG lab if we keep talking about them? tough for them in my opinion. I get my gear from realiable sources, for a price I feel is fair, I have tried various brands and as long as they are clean sterile and do the job then I would like to advise other on this.
Labs will come and go, preventing discussion of labs would not benefit anyone -- unless of course MT finds that it hinders their marketting opportunities? In which case this is different. Why not have a private board that costs a one off fee to joi, this way we can talk about what we want?
Agreed its supply and demand but can not see how that will effect any marketing opportunities for MT as never have and never will allow banners / advertising of such labs. Yes i know many boards did do this (not so many now when the board owners were arrested) but even though i would imaging it was / is a nice revenue stream that is not MT strategy so if we discuss or not has not impact on MT the business
As for a private forum many boards have them where sources used to go etc but think when all were arrested they all realised that private or paid for it makes no difference if you are involved in illegal activities then your time will come and will effect all
Good comments though thanks
Wrongun!
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 19:33:49
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Puzzle
Posts: 3345
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It makes no sense to sensor discussion of some labs but not others, that's why MT gets abuse, or used to. The only exception should be if a lab is believed to be particularly untrustworthy, in which case the a mod should say... this lab is not to be trusted. I remember when MT would simply delete UKB threads or posts as if the product was faeces, yet allowed the discussion of BD as it was ambrosia. I don't know if things have changed but back then the quality of information on here was poor.
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 19:35:20
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Wrongun
Posts: 3763
Joined: Sep. 9 2001
From: United Kingdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theiopener
totally o/t but when will MT consider a list of fakers and scammers to prevent people getting ripped off (no genuine sources allowed though may i add)
Never
The golden rule
MuscleTalk is not a place to sell (or buy) illicit substances. Please refrain from such postings
Any list gets old quick anyway and also very subjective just look at the arguments and the crap that are on other boards that have these sections where one says scammer then 20 stick up for him then the source joins and has a battle - they can keep the drama IMHO
I hear what you are saying but just creates drama but understand we discuss AAS and they have to come from somewhere but MT is not a place to police these operations
Wrongun!
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 19:41:21
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Wrongun
Posts: 3763
Joined: Sep. 9 2001
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Puzzle
It makes no sense to sensor discussion of some labs but not others, that's why MT gets abuse, or used to. The only exception should be if a lab is believed to be particularly untrustworthy, in which case the a mod should say... this lab is not to be trusted. I remember when MT would simply delete UKB threads or posts as if the product was faeces, yet allowed the discussion of BD as it was ambrosia. I don't know if things have changed but back then the quality of information on here was poor.
Perfect example of why we should not allow any.
It really cracks me up when this accusation comes around. If we take the UKB discussion when you looked at the ''home board'' they had banners all over it advertising it and all was great. Any other brand was discussed it was deleted, member banned end of story.
The same people connected then used to flood this board having the same argument
Then its fogotton how other labs such as WC were allowed to post lab tests and discussion when the same boards that are so impartial banned them day 1.
But MT is the impartial one LOL
This is exactly why i would vote no UGL discussion whatsoever as this sort of accusation could not keep coming around
Not singling you out but the UKB debate really winds me up as you can search the database and find threads you can also see ones that are locked where the ''impartial ones'' who were behind the lab and owned boards that advertised it were offering their advice of how good it is.
Really do not want this thread to decline into one lab is better than another and really can not see how it has come up yet again
Wrongun!
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 19:46:03
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Wrongun
Posts: 3763
Joined: Sep. 9 2001
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theiopener
I agree with you Wrongun! that MT is not here to police operations but why is it then encourages that people email mods for source checks to avoid the aforementioned issue?
I think you will find that ''encouragement'' WAS general practice and a given as acceptable process on most boards which just carried over but has certainly NOT been encouraged by Mod's of MT for quite some time. Yes members often reply as that and we all get many mails which if you can help fine (i.e. from what i am told) if not and don't know then i can't but certainly not encouraged.
If you got to www.google.co.uk and search on source scammers you will find the lists nothing to do with mailing me as thats where i would send you
Wrongun!
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 19:50:05
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mad_cereal_lover
Posts: 7165
Joined: Apr. 13 2004
From: Southwest, United Kingdom
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Good post Wrongun!
quote:
ORIGINAL: Puzzle
It makes no sense to sensor discussion of some labs but not others, that's why MT gets abuse, or used to. The only exception should be if a lab is believed to be particularly untrustworthy, in which case the a mod should say... this lab is not to be trusted. I remember when MT would simply delete UKB threads or posts as if the product was faeces, yet allowed the discussion of BD as it was ambrosia. I don't know if things have changed but back then the quality of information on here was poor.
I would say in response to this people are very quick to make accusations of favouritism and hidden agendas for why threads are locked/deleted, but then they do not consider that maybe, just maybe the mods aren't backing a certain lab for alterior motives, but they know for a fact that certain people who post are connected with said lab and/or they know for a fact the lab set-up is poor, ie. kitchen job. Will not name names of UG labs, but there are several which it was quite obvious who was behind/working for these labs and the set-up was no more than a kitchen - and that is not something anyone in their right mind (unless connected with said lab) would want to encourage or promote, is it?!
You don't see what goes behind the scenes and more often than not several mods know from IPs and usernames people use on other boards as well as through well connected people that certain people are associated and connected with certain labs, and as we want to be fair and impartial and not get into that minefield of UG lab wars, the best option in threads like that is delete and/or lock. However on very few occasions are the offenders instantly banned, unlike other smaller boards who do clearly have an agenda LOL!
Sometimes it just needs to be considered that things are known that regular members don't know and no its not a conspiracy that threads are locked, although many people would like that to be the case as its much more interesting than the boring truth that actually MT doesn't have connections with any lab.
mcl
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 19:50:29
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James21
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From: Greater Manchester
Status: offline
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I am a simple man with simple needs.
So i voted 'Wrongun i want to have your babies'. 
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 19:53:15
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drsquat
Posts: 1735
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I noticed over on uk-muscle there has been a recent poll which is similar, however there poll is debating whether they should allow to bring back Lab discussion and it looks like it is to be brought back, seems almost impossible to be avoided now with so many UG labs and so many products produced by them.
I think at present MT is running well, there doesn't seem to have been much talk about UG labs recently,
I think that the subject can be moderated appropriately, some people do need genuine answers on certain products by labs or like to get opinions on these products, providing its a legit question then i think its ok, in saying this though the lab does not always have to be mentioned, unless its a specific product they may produce which other labs do not,
I dont think there is a need for questions regarding the whole ug lab such as 'is this lab any good?' after all the search engine will give you most of these answers from the past, the same along the line of 'has anyone tried this labs tren' questions or something along the lines anyway, if they have already read that the lab produces good test, deca etc etc then the likelihood is that there tren will also be good, really no need to ask.
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 19:59:27
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erekose
Posts: 4869
Joined: Mar. 2 2004
From: Kent, United Kingdom
Status: online
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I voted 'do not change' - I think banning all UGL talk is unworkable (and for that matter un-modable!)
I also don't think that we should become too influenced by what happens in the US - they (obviously) have far different rules than we do, and I'm not convinced that it's a good idea to attempt to draw comparisons, or become influenced by what happens there.
lol at Ecooils 'steroid ****tail' in your usdoj link. Apparently it wasn't actually sustanon! On a serious note Ecooils have been around for a good few years now, so it's very very slow of US customs to only just have found out about them, despite as you say they being mentioned all over the web.
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 20:04:12
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rightyho
Posts: 10357
Joined: May 6 2006
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The only thing I would say is that UGL people promote their brands from web pages.
Whether they are discussed on a public board or not, is it not obvious that interested parties (particularly US enforcement) will become aware of the brand through the UGL promotion any way?
If UGLs were secret, they wouldn't be in business.
Surely?
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 20:04:25
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Genics
Posts: 4955
Joined: Feb. 24 2004
From: Edinburgh
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mad_cereal_lover
Good post Wrongun!
quote:
ORIGINAL: Puzzle
It makes no sense to sensor discussion of some labs but not others, that's why MT gets abuse, or used to. The only exception should be if a lab is believed to be particularly untrustworthy, in which case the a mod should say... this lab is not to be trusted. I remember when MT would simply delete UKB threads or posts as if the product was faeces, yet allowed the discussion of BD as it was ambrosia. I don't know if things have changed but back then the quality of information on here was poor.
I would say in response to this people are very quick to make accusations of favouritism and hidden agendas for why threads are locked/deleted, but then they do not consider that maybe, just maybe the mods aren't backing a certain lab for alterior motives, but they know for a fact that certain people who post are connected with said lab and/or they know for a fact the lab set-up is poor, ie. kitchen job. Will not name names of UG labs, but there are several which it was quite obvious who was behind/working for these labs and the set-up was no more than a kitchen - and that is not something anyone in their right mind (unless connected with said lab) would want to encourage or promote, is it?!
You don't see what goes behind the scenes and more often than not several mods know from IPs and usernames people use on other boards as well as through well connected people that certain people are associated and connected with certain labs, and as we want to be fair and impartial and not get into that minefield of UG lab wars, the best option in threads like that is delete and/or lock. However on very few occasions are the offenders instantly banned, unlike other smaller boards who do clearly have an agenda LOL!
Sometimes it just needs to be considered that things are known that regular members don't know and no its not a conspiracy that threads are locked, although many people would like that to be the case as its much more interesting than the boring truth that actually MT doesn't have connections with any lab.
mcl
most of the kitchen lab setups have their own little forums to sell their crappy gear anyway and tend to stay away from MT because they cant moderate the comments about their products..along with there devoted members aka resellers.
i would name such places but we cant..such a shame 
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 20:11:07
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dazc
Posts: 5956
Joined: Apr. 2 2003
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
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Ive never thought there was any favouratism on MT, i think its done everything to be very accomodating to discussion, as long as it didnt lead to sourcing etc.
I think it has the balance right at the moment.
i can see the boards owners thought on banning ugl discussion, but the problem is if you ban all ug talk, how will we know which labs are good to use and which arent? this would leave people (including myself) in a position of believing their source on what is good, and put peoples health at risk.
if anything was to change, it would just be heavier moderation of discussion of ug labs, to exclude anyone known to have an interest in any of them, though i realise this is undoable to a certain extent
i like the aas section just how it is, so voted no change
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RE: Why MT is Against Specific UG Lab Discussion - May 9 2008 20:14:02
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Wrongun
Posts: 3763
Joined: Sep. 9 2001
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rightyho
The only thing I would say is that UGL people promote their brands from web pages.
Whether they are discussed on a public board or not, is it not obvious that interested parties (particularly US enforcement) will become aware of the brand through the UGL promotion any way?
If UGLs were secret, they wouldn't be in business.
Surely?
Very true mate and good point
Wrongun!
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