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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 12:51:12
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AlasTTTair
Posts: 1794
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Scott32
Thanks mate. It's been working a charm! 
lilbigman
I sort of see what you're saying. I have seen some youtube videos in which the guys seem to be obviously churning out the canned material. The thing is, it's not really the material which is important, it's more about understanding the underlying principles.
For example, you should approach a woman indirectly. IE you should not offer to buy her a drink or tell her she's beautiful right away as this would indicate too much interest on your part and she would be naturally turned off. Beautiful women are approached my multiple guys every night and have therefore developed a "bitch shield" in order to shut down any "loser" as quickly as possible. Therefore, if you come in under the radar and ask for their opinion on a neutral issue, then you are not approaching them as a sleazy guy who wants sex, but merely a friendly, sociable guy who needed an opinion on something and her group just happened to be the first people he saw.
I could go on for hours about this, but there is little point explaining all of the teachings I have learned to a bunch of bodybuilders who have not read the right material or applied these techniques and seem hell bent on criticizing the methods as much as possible due to the bizarre belief that it is somewhat manipulative. If you sit down and study this stuff, understand the principles and go out and apply it, your life will improve so much you wouldn't believe.
I do not rely on canned material as I am a naturally chatty and (I like to think) interesting person. However, I do have my opener planned and the first minute or two of my conversation is usually a planned routine, as it is here where you need to demonstrate that you are interesting to people. Also, knowing how you are going to open a set saves lots of "OK OK, what should I say?" time.
If your success with women is outstanding and you are naturally competent, then fine. I however am not and find that this stuff has turned me from a shy person who hadn't had a girlfriend for 5 years, to a guy who goes out and has amazing deep conversations with people (not just women) and is genuinely confident and happy about himself now.
Just to prove that I'm getting results, I went out on Friday with three "wings" and approached probably 25-30 women (a high number, but it takes a while to get "warmed up" and in the sociable mood. Also, many of these were in the street, so some of the interactions were very brief. Anyway, I made a lot of new acquaintances, left with three (genuine) numbers from beautiful women, took two women with me from one club to another (referred to as a "bounce" in the community) and introduced them to my friend. Later on, after talking to the women for a few hours, we took them back to my friends apartment where we DIDN'T have sex (and I personally had no intention to. Google "buyer's remorse"), but I did escalate with the girl I was interested in and we kissed on the sofa. I'm seeing her next week as it happens.
Without the knowledge I have learned and confidence I have developed this would have never been possible. Criticize all you like, but I am having the time of my life, and will look back on my love life in a positive way when I'm grey and old. There will be no regret from me in this area.
I'm personally not looking for a long term relationship at the moment mate; I'm simply practising my skills and having a really good time. However, I am in a casual relationship with a slightly older woman, whom I have been seeing for around a month and a half, and the girl I mentioned above was very good company so I am going to see where this develops as well. I have only been doing this for around a month, so have not had any long relationships yet.
Wheels
It's about taking the material and concepts and individualising it to develop your own style. A small number of people may end up mirroring Mystery or Style, but for the majority they will take the concepts and naturally develop their own patterns and personality.
The_robmeister
Many of the authors have become very money hungry, but that still does not take away from the amazing information contained within. When I think of what I have already achieved, the products have definitely proven that they are worth the money.
If you wanted to get into this, buy (or download for free  ) the Venusian Arts Handbook (by Mystery), The Annihilation Method DVDs (by Neil Strauss, AKA Style) and probably buy The Game, which was also written by Neil Strauss.
CheekyChappie
Everyone needs to earn a living. With the information these guys are providing and judging by the amount your life will improve, I think it is worth the money. Also I didn't pay for mine . The content in most of the ebooks written by credible PUAs is completely accurate, field tested and what's more, it works!
There are two types of guys: ones who are naturally good with women and ones who aren't. That's just the way it is right? Wrong! There is a third guy. A guy who can actually LEARN this stuff. The books were written by these guys and they are written for these guys. Anything that can be learned by one human being can be learned by another. Or something like that. You are absolutely right that all women care about is status and confidence though. That is absolutely true!
Finally, for all you guys who would like to see a real "PUA" in action, watch this episode of "Keys to the VIP" and prepare to be amazed by Cajun. Watch all three parts and then tell me that this stuff doesn't work.
Part one
Part two
Part three
I'd also recommend watching "The Pickup Artist" which is on youtube in I think and try reading The Game by Neil Strauss. You will be amazed, but if not, fine. Be happy to criticize the methods when you have no real understanding of them. It can be compared to bodybuilding in this respect. Many people think it (bodybuilding) is "wrong", we are unhealthy, disgusting, obsessed, vein etc. Only if you are a bodybuilder or truly understand bodybuilding can you truly form a valid and informed opinion.
_____________________________
Bringing back the high-fat diet
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 12:52:22
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rightyho
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quote:
ORIGINAL: swift
Have you read any of there work?
Just spent a good hour going through a load of various videos on YT regarding flirting, IOI's and body language.
Some of it is very interesting and logical, however im not so sure i could remeber it all and or use it effectively.
It works. 
_____________________________
MT all-round Member of the Year 2006 and 2007
Dishing out useless information since summer 2006
Expect the same rubbish in 2008
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 21:17:09
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Mad Manic
Posts: 219
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whatcanisayimste
'if your bodybuilding just to attract women jack it in'
even a girl whos the most furthest from shallow you can ever get
which is she gonna prefer
the fat less muscley you.
or the fitter more muscley you?
its natural selection
survival of the fittest
you cant denie bodybuilding helps in terms of the ladys
Getting a great body has helped some guys pull better, but on the other hand it has also made zero difference for some guys. I would rate things like height, ethnicity, social class, looks, style, social proof etc. ahead of muscles. There are loads of guys with gorgeous girlfriends who are stick thin or even a bit chubby, I would say muscles are one of the least important/efficient ways of getting girls. There are lots of short, ugly and foreign guys in gyms pumping away and it doesn't make any difference tbh, it's just pretty futile.
If you go out in the streets every day and look at couples, you will see patterns in what traits are preferred by women. I don't want to go into details because I know forums are sensitive to various things, but you will see it for yourself. Look at the guys that are with the attractive women, spot the commonalities and see if you can emulate that. Often you can't though.
MM
< Message edited by Mad Manic -- May 11 2008 21:18:32 >
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 21:30:09
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AlasTTTair
Posts: 1794
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From: Liverpool
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mad Manic
quote:
ORIGINAL: whatcanisayimste
'if your bodybuilding just to attract women jack it in'
even a girl whos the most furthest from shallow you can ever get
which is she gonna prefer
the fat less muscley you.
or the fitter more muscley you?
its natural selection
survival of the fittest
you cant denie bodybuilding helps in terms of the ladys
Getting a great body has helped some guys pull better, but on the other hand it has also made zero difference for some guys. I would rate things like height, ethnicity, social class, looks, style, social proof etc. ahead of muscles. There are loads of guys with gorgeous girlfriends who are stick thin or even a bit chubby, I would say muscles are one of the least important/efficient ways of getting girls. There are lots of short, ugly and foreign guys in gyms pumping away and it doesn't make any difference tbh, it's just pretty futile.
If you go out in the streets every day and look at couples, you will see patterns in what traits are preferred by women. I don't want to go into details because I know forums are sensitive to various things, but you will see it for yourself. Look at the guys that are with the attractive women, spot the commonalities and see if you can emulate that. Often you can't though.
MM
Or just read one of the ebooks I've recommended  . Would rather do that than try and pick up women based on how couples I spy on in the steet treat each other. Especially seeing as "it might not work".
Why over complicate things? Read the information, make notes, go out and practise the techniques, get success. Much more simple (and dignified) than becoming a voyeur.
_____________________________
Bringing back the high-fat diet
Taking carb-heads down a peg or two
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 21:36:04
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drab4
Posts: 27728
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CheekyChappie
I have read quite a lot of this kind of material
Me too. This scene borders on things I am interested in, such as sex research, social interaction, and bodylanguage. However unlike you CC, I have never noticed much useful info in the PUA scene. What info they do have, they tend to apply wrongly
Perhaps older members will remember some of the discussions we had about this stuff back in 2002, 2003, when the PUA scene was less politically correct than it is today, and more based around the manipulation of women, with the real gurus claiming to be able to actually hypnotise women into having sex with them. Back then I of course took an opposed stance to this nonsense
The whole scene has it's roots in geeky American weirdos making cunning plans to get women to sleep with them, and this still comes across when you observe some of their disciples in action
However, I suppose it does work for some people, as a lot of the teachings are based on making people feel better about themselves. They say it's normal to be an average frustrated chump. You don't have to feel bad about being a loser and having no social skills. Here, we'll teach you how to be a player, one of the top 10% of guys who can actually interact easily with women
Of course, in the real world it's more like about 80% of guys who can interact easily with women. None of my mates are frustrated chumps. But those 80% are not the target audience
quote:
ORIGINAL: Big D
i know a few people that have read thse books, all of whom were shy introvert types around women, some still are others not so.
the one's that have had success from them are extremly defensive of them, after all without them they wouldnt have half as much confidence not just around women but in everyday situations too.
doesnt work for everyone. imo.
Rabidly defensive. It's silly
Like when they quote little snippets of bodylanguage knowledge and so on. If you want to learn about bodylanguage, go read about it. You don't need a whole load of "sarging" to go along with it do you? Unless you really need to be in this little boys club to actually meet women
I'm less against the whole thing than I used to be, because it's now less creepy and manipulative. Still, it's really only of use for frustrated chumps. Something that they are quite honest about I suppose
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 21:43:39
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JohnKerr2
Posts: 7686
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: London United Kingdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AlasTTTair
I could go on for hours about this, but there is little point explaining all of the teachings I have learned to a bunch of bodybuilders
You're quite right. Collectively our IQ barely hits double figures.
quote:
Later on, after talking to the women for a few hours, we took them back to my friends apartment where we DIDN'T have sex (and I personally had no intention to. Google "buyer's remorse"), but I did escalate with the girl I was interested in and we kissed on the sofa.
Congratulations on escalating with a girl.
"Hey Lady, let's escalate".
_____________________________
 Reported for insulting the Monarchy. 
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 21:44:39
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Mad Manic
Posts: 219
Joined: Apr. 1 2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AlasTTTair
Or just read one of the ebooks I've recommended . Would rather do that than try and pick up women based on how couples I spy on in the steet treat each other. Especially seeing as "it might not work".
Why over complicate things? Read the information, make notes, go out and practise the techniques, get success. Much more simple (and dignified) than becoming a voyeur.
I would rather check out the real world and make my own conclusions based on real evidence, rather than reading biased books aimed at screwing money out of desperate guys. I have learned a hell of a lot of things from looking at the types of men women date, the types of guys that seem popular in general and not just with girls, psychology about how people percieve others and how we place values on certain things, etc.
Like Drab said, if you want to learn about psychology, social conditioning, body language and other stuff then read it seperately along with looking at the real world and your own experiences.
I have discovered LOTS of things that although many people know, nobody told me and they were very important things. Along with lots of things people are oblivious to but do subconsciously and later deny. Most of the stuff I discovered are pretty bad things and I would be better off not knowing, but I prefer that to being fooled by gurus.
MM
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 21:51:26
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Faux Real
Posts: 5632
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I'm an average frustrated chump.
I've read the Game and a few D'angelo ebooks but have never used any of it.
Still havent got the bottle to talk to a girl in the outside world!
_____________________________
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Bench: 70kg | Deads: 140kg | Squats 100kg
Journal: Jan 2008 - May 2008 :: Typical Diet
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 22:19:01
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emma6687
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I think it's great if these type of books give people the confidence to approach someone when they otherwise wouldn't be able to - but on a personal note I can say that when I'm approached by a man the things that attract me most are confidence, honesty and most importantly being genuine.
Not every woman will want to sleep with you but hey if she thinks you are a genuine, nice guy she may set you up with her superhot friend! :)
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 22:22:03
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Mad Manic
Posts: 219
Joined: Apr. 1 2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: emma6687
I think it's great if these type of books give people the confidence to approach someone when they otherwise wouldn't be able to - but on a personal note I can say that when I'm approached by a man the things that attract me most are confidence, honesty and most importantly being genuine.
Not every woman will want to sleep with you but hey if she thinks you are a genuine, nice guy she may set you up with her superhot friend! :)
I'm glad you are open minded about it, because many women just go on auto-pilot and say men shouldn't be learning this stuff and many think they could never be charmed by a guy who learnt it anyway. Your last point was a valid one, there is good in being social and making connections because you can always be hooked up that way as well.
MM
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 22:47:49
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AlasTTTair
Posts: 1794
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From: Liverpool
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mad Manic
quote:
ORIGINAL: AlasTTTair
Or just read one of the ebooks I've recommended . Would rather do that than try and pick up women based on how couples I spy on in the steet treat each other. Especially seeing as "it might not work".
Why over complicate things? Read the information, make notes, go out and practise the techniques, get success. Much more simple (and dignified) than becoming a voyeur.
I would rather check out the real world and make my own conclusions based on real evidence, rather than reading biased books aimed at screwing money out of desperate guys. I have learned a hell of a lot of things from looking at the types of men women date, the types of guys that seem popular in general and not just with girls, psychology about how people percieve others and how we place values on certain things, etc.
Like Drab said, if you want to learn about psychology, social conditioning, body language and other stuff then read it seperately along with looking at the real world and your own experiences.
I have discovered LOTS of things that although many people know, nobody told me and they were very important things. Along with lots of things people are oblivious to but do subconsciously and later deny. Most of the stuff I discovered are pretty bad things and I would be better off not knowing, but I prefer that to being fooled by gurus.
MM
The only way you can be 'fooled by a guru' is if you pay for something which doesn't work. I haven't paid for the information, but if I had I still wouldn't have been fooled as it DOES work!
How does watching couples who are already very comfortable with one another teach you how to build attraction with a complete stranger? Also, what do you look for? "He wears a pink shirt and his girlfriend is hot. Therefore..."
quote:
Congratulations on escalating with a girl.
"Hey Lady, let's escalate".
Nice one John. Another quality post! 
drab
You're referring to NLP (neuro-linguistic programming). I too find this very manipulative, but I think this is dieing out now. I personally have never used it as I think it's quite unfair and sleazy. The stuff I have read is very specific and structured, but at the essence of it, it is mainly about embodying the right attitude, saying the right things, being fun, not showing interest in her until she shows interest in you etc etc. Probably at the very core of it is being confident, though it is very vague to say to a shy guy "Be confident". Instead, this teaches you techniques, lines, fun things to do with her etc, so that as a result of your success you naturally develop confidence.
Emma
I'm glad that you can see that this is perfectly harmless and is merely helping to improve the lives of men who, ordinarily would have very unsuccessful love lives.
Also, with all due respect, women don't know exactly what they are attracted to. If a guy was confident and genuine and came straight up to you and said "You're hot, can I have your number?" I doubt you'd be attracted to him. Why would you give your number to a complete stranger? You would need to be attracted to him first. If an experienced pickup artist came up to you and displayed non-neediness, a high value, confidence, that he was fun to be around, that other women find him attractive etc, odds are you would become attracted to him, whether or not he was initially genuine. You can not control who you are attracted to. It is very important to remember that.
I personally feel that, even if your opener is made up, within a few minutes you will run out of canned material, so the woman will very quickly get to see the real you. You just need to get her to a stage when she actually wants to find out about the real you. That's where all the techniques come in.
Faux Real
If you live in London, go on puatraining.co.uk and have a look at their courses. I went on the approaching course (6hrs) and it worked a treat.
_____________________________
Bringing back the high-fat diet
Taking carb-heads down a peg or two
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 22:49:32
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swift
Posts: 4671
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I think its important to pick and choose certain techniques because if you use too many on any one interaction you end up laying it on a bit thick.
I think somewhere halfway wins, recognise the techniques and apply them sparingly, but stay genuine rather than base a relationship on manipulation.
_____________________________
ABC
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 22:51:28
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AlasTTTair
Posts: 1794
Joined: Mar. 1 2007
From: Liverpool
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quote:
ORIGINAL: swift
I think its important to pick and choose certain techniques because if you use too many on any one interaction you end up laying it on a bit thick.
I think somewhere halfway wins, recognise the techniques and apply them sparingly, but stay genuine rather than base a relationship on manipulation.
Of course. What I have noticed is that most of the American guys used purely canned material, whereas most of the English guys use purely natural game. I think a combination of both is preferable, and is what I use.
_____________________________
Bringing back the high-fat diet
Taking carb-heads down a peg or two
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 23:11:21
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Mad Manic
Posts: 219
Joined: Apr. 1 2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AlasTTTair
The only way you can be 'fooled by a guru' is if you pay for something which doesn't work. I haven't paid for the information, but if I had I still wouldn't have been fooled as it DOES work!
How does watching couples who are already very comfortable with one another teach you how to build attraction with a complete stranger? Also, what do you look for? "He wears a pink shirt and his girlfriend is hot. Therefore..."
Like I said earlier, height, ethnicity, social class, social proof, looks, body, charm etc. are typically the factors that decide success with women. So when I observe the world I'll look for these things and patterns. For example tall men seem to date attractive women moreso than short men. White men date attractive women moreso than non-white men. Slim men date attractive women moreso than chubby men. Middle class men date attractive women moreso than working class men. These are just the broadstrokes and then with experience you get into the nitty gritty of it. A lot of the PUA material ignores important things and fools people into thinking it's mainly about game, when that's not true.
MM
< Message edited by Mad Manic -- May 11 2008 23:12:18 >
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 23:15:50
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ginasmg
Posts: 14146
Joined: Jun. 24 2006
From: yorkshire
Status: offline
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no mate i havent read this yet, i dont need books i just smile and they crowd to love me
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 23:20:03
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JohnKerr2
Posts: 7686
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: London United Kingdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mad Manic
White men date attractive women moreso than non-white men.
Really?
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 23:22:43
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JohnKerr2
Posts: 7686
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: London United Kingdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AlasTTTair
If you live in London, go on puatraining.co.uk and have a look at their courses. I went on the approaching course (6hrs) and it worked a treat.
The tragedy of this website has to be seen to be believed.
_____________________________
Reported for insulting the Monarchy.
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 23:27:52
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drab4
Posts: 27728
Joined: Feb. 26 2002
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AlasTTTair
drab
You're referring to NLP (neuro-linguistic programming). I too find this very manipulative, but I think this is dieing out now. I personally have never used it as I think it's quite unfair and sleazy. The stuff I have read is very specific and structured, but at the essence of it, it is mainly about embodying the right attitude, saying the right things, being fun, not showing interest in her until she shows interest in you etc etc. Probably at the very core of it is being confident, though it is very vague to say to a shy guy "Be confident". Instead, this teaches you techniques, lines, fun things to do with her etc, so that as a result of your success you naturally develop confidence.
Cool mate
Well I'm glad it's been helpful for you, and it's good to hear that you stay away from the creepier side of things
It's not for me, but then again no two people are the same eh! Variety is the spice of life and all that
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 23:31:29
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AlasTTTair
Posts: 1794
Joined: Mar. 1 2007
From: Liverpool
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mad Manic
quote:
ORIGINAL: AlasTTTair
The only way you can be 'fooled by a guru' is if you pay for something which doesn't work. I haven't paid for the information, but if I had I still wouldn't have been fooled as it DOES work!
How does watching couples who are already very comfortable with one another teach you how to build attraction with a complete stranger? Also, what do you look for? "He wears a pink shirt and his girlfriend is hot. Therefore..."
Like I said earlier, height, ethnicity, social class, social proof, looks, body, charm etc. are typically the factors that decide success with women. So when I observe the world I'll look for these things and patterns. For example tall men seem to date attractive women moreso than short men. White men date attractive women moreso than non-white men. Slim men date attractive women moreso than chubby men. Middle class men date attractive women moreso than working class men. These are just the broadstrokes and then with experience you get into the nitty gritty of it. A lot of the PUA material ignores important things and fools people into thinking it's mainly about game, when that's not true.
MM
OK, one word: RIDICULOUS!
What on Earth are you basing this on? Trust me, it has nothing to do with looks. Regarding physical appearance, all women care about is that a man is well groomed. Please explain to me why some of the best PUAs in the world are SHORT and not classically good looking. Trust me, all women care about is power, confidence and status. Nice theory though.
Also, you're basing it purely on couples you've seen in a particular area/ country. Attraction is Universal. Think you'll see more attractive women with white men in Saudi Arabia?
quote:
The tragedy of this website has to be seen to be believed.
Another informed opinion I see. Tell me John, why is this company a tragedy? It has improved my life beyond belief!
_____________________________
Bringing back the high-fat diet
Taking carb-heads down a peg or two
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RE: David Deangelo, how to attract the opposite sex and... - May 11 2008 23:32:05
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emma6687
Posts: 18
Joined: Apr. 21 2008
Status: offline
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Emma
I'm glad that you can see that this is perfectly harmless and is merely helping to improve the lives of men who, ordinarily would have very unsuccessful love lives.
Also, with all due respect, women don't know exactly what they are attracted to. If a guy was confident and genuine and came straight up to you and said "You're hot, can I have your number?" I doubt you'd be attracted to him. Why would you give your number to a complete stranger? You would need to be attracted to him first. If an experienced pickup artist came up to you and displayed non-neediness, a high value, confidence, that he was fun to be around, that other women find him attractive etc, odds are you would become attracted to him, whether or not he was initially genuine. You can not control who you are attracted to. It is very important to remember that.
I personally feel that, even if your opener is made up, within a few minutes you will run out of canned material, so the woman will very quickly get to see the real you. You just need to get her to a stage when she actually wants to find out about the real you. That's where all the techniques come in.
[/quote]
TTT glad u know what attracts me to men - otherwise I'd be clueless! :P
As I said I think these 'tricks' can be useful to some men who lack confidence, but I think maybe we have different views on what being genuine means. Many woman can spot an 'experienced pickup artist' miles off and I can guarantee that this is not the type of man I'm attracted to.
I think where my difference of opinion comes in is that terms like 'game' and 'pickup artist' and 'opener' - for me being genuine means meeting woman and chatting to her as a person and seeing if there's any chemistry.
To a certain extent you are right in that in some ways you cannot control who you are attracted to, but you appear to be under the impression that these techniques are like some kind of magic trance for picking up woman - when in my opinion the reason many (if not all) of these techniques work is because it gives the approacher more confidence than usual.
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