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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 14 2008 23:25:23
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T0NY
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From: Bonny Scotland
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
quote:
ORIGINAL: T0NY
Never seemed to get anything out of BB rows, so little infact I dropped them.
Deadlifts and chins form the staple of my back work.
bad form
Nope form was bang on, just never did the trick for me.
Trebor whenever I've tried rowing on a bench I've found the support for the bench gets in the way.
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 14 2008 23:51:16
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JohnOvManchester
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Any exercises that:
- pull from below
- pull from in front
- pull from above
as long as you have 1 of each you can not go far wrong...
If I could only pick 1 exercise I'd do V handle low rows.
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 15 2008 2:55:07
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Mad Manic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
Any exercises that:
- pull from below
- pull from in front
- pull from above
as long as you have 1 of each you can not go far wrong...
If I could only pick 1 exercise I'd do V handle low rows.
So BO Row/Deadlift, Seated Row, Chins/Pulldown?
MM
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 15 2008 12:18:05
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iaink
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quote:
Sorry to nit pic mate but if the majority are doing other direct back work then you carn't really say deadlifting is responsible for there back development?
Nit pic away!
Many don't do any direct upper back work, whilst others will not do much ie some light pulldowns on occassion as a pre-hab lifts. This aint gona add slabs of muscle to your back. I personally could do no direct upper back work and I would not loose any mass there. If you want muscle from your traps down to your glutes deadlift!
However you are right in some respect as many lifters will add size to their back if they train their upper back hard enough (obviously).
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 15 2008 14:43:19
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JohnOvManchester
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From: Manchester, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mad Manic
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
Any exercises that:
- pull from below
- pull from in front
- pull from above
as long as you have 1 of each you can not go far wrong...
If I could only pick 1 exercise I'd do V handle low rows.
So BO Row/Deadlift, Seated Row, Chins/Pulldown?
MM
Yes mate, that's right.
As the seated rows are in there you would probably choose deadlifts over barbell rows, but either chins or pull downs would be fine.
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 15 2008 15:17:55
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MuscleQuest
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
Any exercises that:
- pull from below
- pull from in front
- pull from above
as long as you have 1 of each you can not go far wrong...
If I could only pick 1 exercise I'd do V handle low rows.
Out of interest mate can I ask why you would chose V handle cable rows above all else? I find them to be one of the most useless, overrated exercises. On a conventional cable rows machine that is, the ones in most gyms
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 15 2008 15:33:12
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s man
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I have a 54" lat spread and I put most of that down to seated row machines.
The trick for me with back is to not hold the bar/handle/attachment with a tight grip but to use straps and hold it with my finger tips meaning you are pulling all the weight with the back.
My exercises are Pulldowns, bent rows or t-bar and seated mid row machine/hammer strength high row.
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 15 2008 15:44:19
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MuscleQuest
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quote:
ORIGINAL: s man
I have a 54" lat spread and I put most of that down to seated row machines.
The trick for me with back is to not hold the bar/handle/attachment with a tight grip but to use straps and hold it with my finger tips meaning you are pulling all the weight with the back.
My exercises are Pulldowns, bent rows or t-bar and seated mid row machine/hammer strength high row.
That would explain it. I've never used straps but I might do so now and see how it goes. Will some cheap straps from Argos do the trick?
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 15 2008 16:42:39
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JohnOvManchester
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From: Manchester, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
Any exercises that:
- pull from below
- pull from in front
- pull from above
as long as you have 1 of each you can not go far wrong...
If I could only pick 1 exercise I'd do V handle low rows.
Out of interest mate can I ask why you would chose V handle cable rows above all else? I find them to be one of the most useless, overrated exercises. On a conventional cable rows machine that is, the ones in most gyms
Why, what don't they do?
They are a standerd back exercise primerily hitting lats but also work your erectors, traps and rhomboids... whats not to like.
Most find them a more ergonomic version of T-bar rows.
But they are useless? Please explian.
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 15 2008 17:17:02
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s man
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
quote:
ORIGINAL: s man
I have a 54" lat spread and I put most of that down to seated row machines.
The trick for me with back is to not hold the bar/handle/attachment with a tight grip but to use straps and hold it with my finger tips meaning you are pulling all the weight with the back.
My exercises are Pulldowns, bent rows or t-bar and seated mid row machine/hammer strength high row.
That would explain it. I've never used straps but I might do so now and see how it goes. Will some cheap straps from Argos do the trick?
Try and get the longest ones you can as there easier to wrap on nice and secure. Your really feel the diffrence as they allow you to stretch out the lats a lot more as well.
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 15 2008 17:33:38
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Rhez
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Do any of you rate Hypers, i have been doing these lately and feel that they are helping me with lower back weakness.
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 15 2008 17:57:56
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MuscleQuest
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Cheers sman I'll shop around for some.
To explain specfically. I find its because biceps do the majority of the work no matter how good your mind to muscle connection is. To get a good workout on a cable machine I found you either have to A) use low weight so that you can get a decent amount of reps out before your biceps give out - which is useless way of training if hypertrophy is your goal B) lift enough weight to stimulate the muscles properly which allows minimal reps because of the over emphasis and excertion of the biceps. I find that cable rows exclusively are enough to totally exhaust biceps for the rest of the session, so I can't put them at the beginning of the workout for that reason. I also can't put them at the end of the session because by then I've already used biceps somewhat I would not be able to lift even close to what I would require to stimulate back sufficently on that exercise so its just pointless busy work.
Also worth noting that the majority of the stimulus is on the lower lats. Cable rows are pretty useless as a overall back exercise for that reason. You could say that if you slow down and use perfect from and retract your shoulders, you will be able to feel it in your rhomboids/traps but in reality you can do this with almost any pull exercise which will do a much better job at stimulting that area without overly stressing the biceps. The juice is just not worth the squeeze so to speak
< Message edited by MuscleQuest -- May 15 2008 17:59:40 >
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 15 2008 22:09:52
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Rhez
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
Will have to agree to disagree.
Your upper arm is pulled towards your body by your lats, are you sure you are doing them right, you shouldn't feel much in your biceps as the lower arm doesn't really flex like it does in a curl... maybe in the forearms.
http://www.coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/lats/close-grip-seated-row/
Have to agree here, if you get the technique right you will not be recruiting the biceps that much.
You have to squeeze your shoulder blades together and lean back slightly, do this and you will not use the Biceps half as much.
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 15 2008 22:24:13
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MuscleQuest
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I didn't mention forearms but for the same reasons above they do most of the work. Biceps/Forearms are the first to give, that's the bottomline. Gotta say I don't think cable rows are useless, that's a bit of an overexaguration. But there definately one of the most inferior back exercises hence why I was amazed you made them your first choice
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 15 2008 22:34:07
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cricket_fire
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quote:
But there definately one of the most inferior back exercises hence why I was amazed you made them your first choice
Maybe for you, but to blanket them as "deffinatly one of the most inferior back exercises" is a little neieve
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 15 2008 23:50:51
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MuscleQuest
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cricket_fire
quote:
But there definately one of the most inferior back exercises hence why I was amazed you made them your first choice
Maybe for you, but to blanket them as "deffinatly one of the most inferior back exercises" is a little neieve
'Nieve' mate. And not really no. I think people are pretty ignorant about what their actually training when they train. I simply take stock of where all my energys are going when I train so that I get maxium result for my effort. In the grand scheme of things cable rows are pretty dire in my opinion, so to get people to think about how effective their training is, is my only goal. I actually said in my last paragrah that saying 'cable rows are useless' was an overexaguration aswell, so please note that
However, nobody has really given any decent rebuttal as to why there a worthwhile exercise, just simply that there good and that its my opinion if I don't like them
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 1:14:47
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cricket_fire
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Fair enough, but seeing loads of top bodybuilders (Jay Cutler being one) and top powerlifters (Sebastian Burns for example; a bench press guru) use it, is proof enough for me.
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 1:17:22
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cricket_fire
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If you had an intense training schedule, which left your lower back too fried to hit barbell rows, and needed something to train your upper back, what would you do?
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 8:11:30
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T0NY
Posts: 6814
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From: Bonny Scotland
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quote:
Nieve' mate. And not really no. I think people are pretty ignorant about what their actually training when they train. I simply take stock of where all my energys are going when I train so that I get maxium result for my effort. In the grand scheme of things cable rows are pretty dire in my opinion, so to get people to think about how effective their training is, is my only goal. I actually said in my last paragrah that saying 'cable rows are useless' was an overexaguration aswell, so please note that
People can be fairy ignorant mate however your fairly arrogant to think you would know the best way for everyone to train.
There are no one size fits all rules.
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