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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 8:18:34
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Funkyfresh
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Best for building the back is to use a variety.
Deadlifts, Barbell Rows and Chins are probably the best staples to use though.
I ALWAYS include chins and barbell rows in my back routine, aswell as deadlifts (depending on where I'm at in my training..etc.). But I think there are other exercises such as cable rows, pulldowns, t-bar rows..etc. which are also very effective.
Sometimes you have to adapt if you train at a commercial gym since the equipment isn't always available at the time you want to use it, so I just use an aternative. But I always include chins and rows no matter what I do for back day.
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 11:10:34
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Incredible Bulk
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bent rows are also a exercise a fair few people cheat on.
you see them kind of shrug/push with the knees to build momentum behind the bar.
if its slow and purposeful then a great exercise
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 11:43:16
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JohnOvManchester
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
I didn't mention forearms but for the same reasons above they do most of the work. Biceps/Forearms are the first to give, that's the bottomline. Gotta say I don't think cable rows are useless, that's a bit of an overexaguration. But there definately one of the most inferior back exercises hence why I was amazed you made them your first choice
Yep, your deffo doing them wrong mate.
Your biceps shouldn't go, as Rhez said they are hardy reruited.
Think about it mechanically. Put it into parts... a motor thats the only powerd thing, nuts and bolts and a hole rather than a joint (like meccano).
So your shoulder is hinged to your upper arm, your upper arm is hinged to your lower and the motor winds in the upper arm.
As you can see there is no power/motor in at the lower arm joint at all, just a hinge... if you put power to the motor it would start to pull in the upper arm to the midline of the body. The lower are would bend at the hinge anyway as the force is puling back it will take the shortest path between that and whatever it's ancored on (the handle).
Diagram shows only the main power force... there are synegists etc but to keep it simple see below
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 11:48:07
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JohnOvManchester
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
However, nobody has really given any decent rebuttal as to why there a worthwhile exercise, just simply that there good and that its my opinion if I don't like them
I think I have mate.
Just look at the coopers gun page http://www.coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/lats/close-grip-seated-row/
It's mainly a lat exercise but a lot of other back muscles are involved.
It's a big compound exercise and staple in most BBing routines. plus as Cricket said, powerlifts also see the advantage.
It seem a lot of people disagree with you mate, yet you still say you want to get us to think about how effect their training is... I think you would benifit from looking closer to home mate.
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 17:43:14
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MuscleQuest
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cricket_fire
If you had an intense training schedule, which left your lower back too fried to hit barbell rows, and needed something to train your upper back, what would you do?
I don't think you could substitute cable rows for BB rows under any circumstances. An overall mass builder for upper back would have to be BB rows or some other BB row variation (expect DB rows)
< Message edited by MuscleQuest -- May 16 2008 17:50:33 >
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 17:47:50
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MuscleQuest
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
It's mainly a lat exercise but a lot of other back muscles are involved.
It's a big compound exercise and staple in most BBing routines. plus as Cricket said, powerlifts also see the advantage.
As I've already said almost every pull exericse recruits rhomboids and traps to some extent, that doesn't mean it does so effectively. You simply have no idea, your just going by what is says on exercise directory and what you've seen in videos on youtube
< Message edited by MuscleQuest -- May 16 2008 17:48:32 >
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 17:54:59
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Rhez
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
It's mainly a lat exercise but a lot of other back muscles are involved.
It's a big compound exercise and staple in most BBing routines. plus as Cricket said, powerlifts also see the advantage.
As I've already said almost every pull exericse recruits rhomboids and traps to some extent, that doesn't mean it does so effectively. You simply have no idea, your just going by what is says on exercise directory and what you've seen in videos on youtube
How can you say that, if John like myself do these cable rows and we can FEEL a particular group of muscles working (not a great deal of bicep and virtually no forearm) it simply means we agree with what we have read because we FEEL it in the real world too.
Seriously though if you feel that much bicep and forearm recruitment then you are doing them wrong.
< Message edited by Rhez -- May 16 2008 17:56:17 >
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 18:26:40
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cricket_fire
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
quote:
ORIGINAL: cricket_fire
If you had an intense training schedule, which left your lower back too fried to hit barbell rows, and needed something to train your upper back, what would you do?
I don't think you could substitute cable rows for BB rows under any circumstances. An overall mass builder for upper back would have to be BB rows or some other BB row variation (expect DB rows)
What would you do in that situation then? Just grind through it with bb rows, and risk injury/overtraining?
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 18:45:31
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JohnOvManchester
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
It's mainly a lat exercise but a lot of other back muscles are involved.
It's a big compound exercise and staple in most BBing routines. plus as Cricket said, powerlifts also see the advantage.
As I've already said almost every pull exericse recruits rhomboids and traps to some extent, that doesn't mean it does so effectively. You simply have no idea, your just going by what is says on exercise directory and what you've seen in videos on youtube
What?
My explanations are my own from years of training and education.
Not that it makes me anything but I have also trained with competative BBer's.
I've been a member on here for about 5 years, from that you could at least tell I've trained weights for 5 years, I have been involved in sport since I was a child.
I have completed an anatomy and physiology course specifically for exercise and I also was qualified in mechanical engineering.
I have also written articles for Muscletalk... the forum you are using... yet I have no idea???
All of what I have said can be and basically have been backed up by other members.
Again, if you are looking for someone with no idea you need to look closer to home.
I was trying to help you FFS - I even drawn a picture for you... talk about bite the hand that feeds you.
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 18:52:23
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MuscleQuest
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cricket_fire
quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
quote:
ORIGINAL: cricket_fire
If you had an intense training schedule, which left your lower back too fried to hit barbell rows, and needed something to train your upper back, what would you do?
I don't think you could substitute cable rows for BB rows under any circumstances. An overall mass builder for upper back would have to be BB rows or some other BB row variation (expect DB rows)
What would you do in that situation then? Just grind through it with bb rows, and risk injury/overtraining?
If you want thickness there's no alternative to BB rows. Your perogative
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 18:52:55
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MuscleQuest
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
It's mainly a lat exercise but a lot of other back muscles are involved.
It's a big compound exercise and staple in most BBing routines. plus as Cricket said, powerlifts also see the advantage.
As I've already said almost every pull exericse recruits rhomboids and traps to some extent, that doesn't mean it does so effectively. You simply have no idea, your just going by what is says on exercise directory and what you've seen in videos on youtube
What?
My explanations are my own from years of training and education.
Not that it makes me anything but I have also trained with competative BBer's.
I've been a member on here for about 5 years, from that you could at least tell I've trained weights for 5 years, I have been involved in sport since I was a child.
I have completed an anatomy and physiology course specifically for exercise and I also was qualified in mechanical engineering.
I have also written articles for Muscletalk... the forum you are using... yet I have no idea???
All of what I have said can be and basically have been backed up by other members.
Again, if you are looking for someone with no idea you need to look closer to home.
I was trying to help you FFS - I even drawn a picture for you... talk about bite the hand that feeds you.
What kind of serious body builder considers cable rows to be an upper back exercise. I find that astounding
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 19:06:51
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JohnOvManchester
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What are you talking about now!!!!
I have posted pictures, links, explanations and even listed the primery muscles used.
You are suggesting something that YOU have typed not anyone else and then saying you find it astounding!!!
This must be a wind up?
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 19:12:11
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cricket_fire
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From: Ontario, Canada
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
It's mainly a lat exercise but a lot of other back muscles are involved.
It's a big compound exercise and staple in most BBing routines. plus as Cricket said, powerlifts also see the advantage.
As I've already said almost every pull exericse recruits rhomboids and traps to some extent, that doesn't mean it does so effectively. You simply have no idea, your just going by what is says on exercise directory and what you've seen in videos on youtube
What?
My explanations are my own from years of training and education.
Not that it makes me anything but I have also trained with competative BBer's.
I've been a member on here for about 5 years, from that you could at least tell I've trained weights for 5 years, I have been involved in sport since I was a child.
I have completed an anatomy and physiology course specifically for exercise and I also was qualified in mechanical engineering.
I have also written articles for Muscletalk... the forum you are using... yet I have no idea???
All of what I have said can be and basically have been backed up by other members.
Again, if you are looking for someone with no idea you need to look closer to home.
I was trying to help you FFS - I even drawn a picture for you... talk about bite the hand that feeds you.
What kind of serious body builder considers cable rows to be an upper back exercise. I find that astounding
Jay Cutler
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 19:37:18
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MuscleQuest
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cricket_fire
quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
It's mainly a lat exercise but a lot of other back muscles are involved.
It's a big compound exercise and staple in most BBing routines. plus as Cricket said, powerlifts also see the advantage.
As I've already said almost every pull exericse recruits rhomboids and traps to some extent, that doesn't mean it does so effectively. You simply have no idea, your just going by what is says on exercise directory and what you've seen in videos on youtube
What?
My explanations are my own from years of training and education.
Not that it makes me anything but I have also trained with competative BBer's.
I've been a member on here for about 5 years, from that you could at least tell I've trained weights for 5 years, I have been involved in sport since I was a child.
I have completed an anatomy and physiology course specifically for exercise and I also was qualified in mechanical engineering.
I have also written articles for Muscletalk... the forum you are using... yet I have no idea???
All of what I have said can be and basically have been backed up by other members.
Again, if you are looking for someone with no idea you need to look closer to home.
I was trying to help you FFS - I even drawn a picture for you... talk about bite the hand that feeds you.
What kind of serious body builder considers cable rows to be an upper back exercise. I find that astounding
Jay Cutler
Where's he ever said that cricket_fire?
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 21:00:09
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JohnOvManchester
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Ahhh, Jay does them eh?
Who is he anyway. Small fry... whats he thinking, they are not effective and the most inferior back exercise.
I found another 2 little ones, no proper BBer would use rows.
A guy called Ronnie and another called Rhul both here doing those cable row things, what do they think they are doing, it's obvious they have no idea.
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 21:19:59
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MuscleQuest
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cricket_fire
http://youtube.com/watch?v=N_aGC9ibFuE
That's a video of him doing cable rows amongst other things. Where has he said cable rows are an upper back exercise?
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 21:28:06
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cricket_fire
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleQuest
quote:
ORIGINAL: cricket_fire
http://youtube.com/watch?v=N_aGC9ibFuE
That's a video of him doing cable rows amongst other things. Where has he said cable rows are an upper back exercise?
Are you kidding me? What is he doing it for, his calves? 
Look up Sebastian Burns. One of the best bench pressers ever. One of his top lat movements is cable rows.
Do you even know what the function of the upper back muscles are?
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RE: building up ur back whats best - May 16 2008 21:41:22
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T0NY
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John is the diagram above all your own work?
Think your banging your head on a brick wall here.
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