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Timing in a BB cycle of a DS cycle... - May 14 2008 9:42:17
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JingPuerh
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So, here's one for you experienced users. When is the best time in your BB cycle to start a DS cycle?
So by BB cycle I mean, if you've had a week off and dropped your poundages back 10% or so, you'll generally take 4 weeks getting back to your previous Best weights and hope to progress beyond that weight after that.
So for something like Halo or Epi, I'd imagine you may as well start the DS cycle at the same time as your BB cycle, cos you'll be going for 5+ weeks.
But, with something like SDrol or Phera where cycles are much shorter, do you wait until you're back at your previous BB cycles Bests (or perhaps the week before you hit them - to allow for the kick-in time) or do you just start BB cycle and DS cycle together?
Cheers,
Jing
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fah_gedda_boudit: "At the end of the day I don't think it really matters what it tastes like. If the liquid stuff is what you can get, well ger'it down yer neck & cowboy up"
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RE: Timing in a BB cycle of a DS cycle... - May 14 2008 10:23:37
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Daari
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quote:
But, with something like SDrol or Phera where cycles are much shorter, do you wait until you're back at your previous BB cycles Bests (or perhaps the week before you hit them - to allow for the kick-in time) or do you just start BB cycle and DS cycle together?
If using SD or phera for bulking, then the best time to use them would be after a cut to utilise the rebound effect. Dan duchaine pioneered this, and although nobody knows the exact reasons behind it, anaecdotal feedback leads us to believe he was indeed correct.
Many people take a week off from the gym every 12-20 weeks. And start the cycle when they come back from their week's rest
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RE: Timing in a BB cycle of a DS cycle... - May 14 2008 10:26:28
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firest0rm
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This is a difficult question to answer, and I don't think I could. Basically your BB routine is for strength, whereas most DS's are for size. Granted, they do give increases in strength but they're not like say anadrol which IS a strength steroid.
I think you would want to time the point when the DS kicks in (around day 10) with the start of your week where you go as heavy as possible. Even then I would say this only applies to compounds such as Superdrol and Pheraplex. Halodrol's gains really kick in after something like 4 weeks, so you're talking a lot of planning ahead with that. Even with Epistane I'm still noting gains to strength in my 5th week!
I'm just thinking out load here, and could be talking bollocks, but it may be worth running a mild compound such as halodrol or epistane, and using something as a pre-workout boost during your stronger periods, such as methoxy-trn or the other boosters out there, mdht is a good one.
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RE: Timing in a BB cycle of a DS cycle... - May 14 2008 11:21:53
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JingPuerh
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quote:
ORIGINAL: firest0rm
I think you would want to time the point when the DS kicks in (around day 10) with the start of your week where you go as heavy as possible. Even then I would say this only applies to compounds such as Superdrol and Pheraplex. Halodrol's gains really kick in after something like 4 weeks, so you're talking a lot of planning ahead with that. Even with Epistane I'm still noting gains to strength in my 5th week!
Does that mean with Halodrol you don't see size gains before week 4? Or is it that you see size gains but not much in the way of strength until then?
I'm still trying to figure out when I can fit my Halo cycle around my holidays/work etc. I could do a 5 weeker fairly soon but I'm thinking perhaps I'd be better off to hold fire until autumn and go for the full six weeks.
Ideally my plan would be to do the 5 weeks on Halo sooner rather than later. This will give me at least a feel for how it all works. Then first thing in the New Year (about 6 weeks on top of my time on + pct = time off) I can do a 6-8 week Epithin cycle to kick off '09. All being well, mid-'09 I'll try a more strength-based cycle of Phera or Superdrol. Then I will have cycled all the things I'm interested in, have a few PCTs under my belt, and can see where I am in relation to my strength (primary) and size (secondary) goals - over all my goals is a desire to get a little leaner though which is why starting with Halodrol is my plan.
Any thoughts?
_____________________________
fah_gedda_boudit: "At the end of the day I don't think it really matters what it tastes like. If the liquid stuff is what you can get, well ger'it down yer neck & cowboy up"
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RE: Timing in a BB cycle of a DS cycle... - May 14 2008 11:39:45
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Daari
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Are you following a reduced calories diet and increased cardio plan? If so, how long have you been on it?
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RE: Timing in a BB cycle of a DS cycle... - May 14 2008 11:50:19
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firest0rm
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With regards to the halo, I believe it's both which begin to become more pronounced after week 4ish.
I think your idea about running Halo sooner rather than later is a good one, for your specific circumstances. You obviously want to be running other compounds in the future, and halo is by far the best introduction to DS's. I think that you'll be doing the right thing having a generous break between cycles, because as you've pointed out your primarily goal is strength, so by leaving a good sized break between cycles you're giving your body chance to recover and regain any strength lost during pct. I found that after I finished my 12 week epistane cycle in January my strength fell a fair bit, perhaps due to changing diet to a cutting one, but also because of stopping the epistane. After a month or so I was managing to lift almost the same, minus the few PB's I did while "on".
I think your desire to become leaner will ultimately be down to your diet and cardio routine. Speaking from experience it does take a lot of tweaking to get it right. There are the common ideas on what you should be getting; the amount of protein to carbs to fat ratio. But for me at least this doesn't work, I am particularly sensitive to carbs so after 3 weeks I lowered them, and instantly saw results in the form of a .8% reduction of bodyfat in 1 week. It really is a matter of getting to know your own body, and making your own decisions.
For me, low carbs with higher fats works best. And for cardio I would highly recommend you look into sscv. Stopping running, and starting walking, has changed my body in 2 positive ways; firstly my strength doesn't take a dip after running for 20 minutes allowing me not only to continue lifting what I was while bulking, but even begin setting new PB's. Secondly I've noticed a more pronounced decrease in bodyfat, despite the lowered intensity.
< Message edited by firest0rm -- May 14 2008 11:52:13 >
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RE: Timing in a BB cycle of a DS cycle... - May 14 2008 11:51:57
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firest0rm
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From: Stockport, Manchester
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quote:
ORIGINAL: firest0rm
With regards to the halo, I believe it's both which begin to become more pronounced after week 4ish.
I think your idea about running Halo sooner rather than later is a good one, for your specific circumstances. You obviously want to be running other compounds in the future, and halo is by far the best introduction to DS's. I think that you'll be doing the right thing having a generous break between cycles, because as you've pointed out your primarily goal is strength, so by leaving a good sized break between cycles you're giving your body chance to recover and regain any strength lost during pct. I found that after I finished my 12 week epistane cycle in January my strength fell a fair bit, perhaps due to changing diet to a cutting one, but also because of stopping the epistane. After a month or so I was managing to lift almost the same, minus the few PB's I did while "on".
I think your desire to become leaner will ultimately be down to your diet and cardio routine. Speaking from experience it does take a lot of tweaking to get it right. There are the common ideas on what you should be getting; the amount of protein to carbs to fat ratio. But for me at least this doesn't work as I am particularly sensitive to carbs so after 3 weeks I lowered them, and instantly see results in the form of a .8% reduction of bodyfat in 1 week. It really is a matter of getting to know your own body, and making your own decisions.
For me, low carbs with higher fats works best. And for cardio I would highly recommend you look into sscv. Stopping running, and starting walking, has changed my body in 2 positive ways; firstly my strength doesn't take a dip after running for 20 minutes allowing me not only to continue lifting what I was while bulking, but even begin setting new PB's. Secondly I've noticed a more pronounced decrease in bodyfat, despite the lowered intensity.
_____________________________
www.extremesupplements.co.uk
The way of the firest0rm...
My son has now been born :)
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RE: Timing in a BB cycle of a DS cycle... - May 14 2008 14:30:50
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JingPuerh
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Adil
Are you following a reduced calories diet and increased cardio plan? If so, how long have you been on it?
I don't do increasing cardio it's a constant for me. I run 2-3x30m/week and do 2x2hr sessions of Kung Fu.
I do manipulate calories though and completed a long slow fat loss that ran from Jan08 to April08 and am now around 73Kg with a bf level I'm happy with - You can't see my abs but I don't have 'love handles' anymore. Fat pinch at my belly button is around 1/2".
I'm at just sub-maintenance calories at the moment as I'm trying to get to 70Kg in the next 5-6 weeks (I don't know why, it's just a nice round number) before my Summer Holidays. When I get back from that I could do the 5 week Halo cycle + PCT before I have to go away with work for a week (no chance of getting to a gym while I'm away unfortunately - and diet goes all to crap when away with work). For that cycle I'd probably be aiming to eat almost dead-on maintenance or a smidge above.
Why?
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fah_gedda_boudit: "At the end of the day I don't think it really matters what it tastes like. If the liquid stuff is what you can get, well ger'it down yer neck & cowboy up"
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RE: Timing in a BB cycle of a DS cycle... - May 14 2008 14:45:46
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Daari
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If you were in the middle of a 'cutting' regime, then I would personally start the h-drol. It has a whole host of benefits while dieting (similar to most steroids), such as decreased cortisol
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RE: Timing in a BB cycle of a DS cycle... - May 14 2008 14:55:43
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JingPuerh
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Adil
If you were in the middle of a 'cutting' regime, then I would personally start the h-drol. It has a whole host of benefits while dieting (similar to most steroids), such as decreased cortisol
I should have said, during my recent long cut I was dosing (3xED) X-Lean. I'm amazed because I lost very little lbm, practically all my losses were fat (3 point caliper measurements % drop tallyed well with the loss of weight) - although the gentleness of my weight loss may have also contributed to that.
So, post my holiday if I start on the Halo at the same time as going back into the gym (I'll be initially dropping the weights about 10% from the end of this BB cycle). Do you think that's a good strategy? I'll be on for 5 weeks - w1 at 50mg then w2-5 on 75mg/ED followed by standard clomid 21-day PCT & X-Lean (3xED). Running Liv-52 (when iHawk gets it back in stock!) alongside the HDrol.
Sound okay to you?
Jing
< Message edited by JingPuerh -- May 14 2008 14:57:41 >
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fah_gedda_boudit: "At the end of the day I don't think it really matters what it tastes like. If the liquid stuff is what you can get, well ger'it down yer neck & cowboy up"
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RE: Timing in a BB cycle of a DS cycle... - May 14 2008 15:06:20
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Daari
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sounds fine 
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RE: Timing in a BB cycle of a DS cycle... - May 14 2008 15:10:34
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JingPuerh
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Adil
sounds fine
Thanks man.
(I don't think you're a robot..  )
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fah_gedda_boudit: "At the end of the day I don't think it really matters what it tastes like. If the liquid stuff is what you can get, well ger'it down yer neck & cowboy up"
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RE: Timing in a BB cycle of a DS cycle... - May 14 2008 15:29:09
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Daari
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quote:
(I don't think you're a robot.. )
Never quite understood that TBH.... 
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"Every soul shall have a taste of death. In the end to Us shall you be brought back. (Quran 29:57)"
www.fitnessuncovered.co.uk
Mass-fx Maximum Strength log; http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_2575714/tm.htm
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RE: Timing in a BB cycle of a DS cycle... - May 14 2008 16:19:04
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JingPuerh
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Adil
quote:
(I don't think you're a robot.. )
Never quite understood that TBH....
No, it didn't make a lot of sense to me either.
Our minds must be too highly tuned for such low humour!
_____________________________
fah_gedda_boudit: "At the end of the day I don't think it really matters what it tastes like. If the liquid stuff is what you can get, well ger'it down yer neck & cowboy up"
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