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Does the body store EFA's? - May 15 2008 13:58:03
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richsINS
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Omega 3 and 6?
I wondered as if not, that would imply to me that we must get EFA's daily... but if they body did store them, then we'd be able to eat fish say 3x a week to cover the rough 1.5g/day that seems to be advised by many.
Since theyre not used for energy, i wondered if theyre just excreted or converted to another form of energy - a bit like excess aminos.
Thanks.
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 15 2008 14:02:56
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drewsky
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Yes it does so no you don't
BUT
I would stress that I recommend you have them every day. Why? because you should get into the habit of having both the FATS and the FOODS that these are found in regularly and often.
I think there was a thread the other day when Nige disagreed with what I said about having them every day but the above is the justification. There's more to diet than is immediately obvious. If you're supplementing as well it just makes it more manageable - I think Nige raised that point.
EDIT: because I am still having trouble with my adjectives versus my contractions!
< Message edited by drewsky -- May 15 2008 14:07:18 >
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 15 2008 14:13:28
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richsINS
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Ok, i read up on essential fatty acids yesturday so can i quickly run a few things past you.
Omega 6 - Seems as said many times, we get these from a tonne of foods (chicken breast, rice, even sweet potato in small ammounts, and alot in olive oil and other oils etc). So would you ever recommend to anyone to actively look for these in foods?
From what i read it seems there is no need, due to the fact they're everywhere in most peoples diets.
Omega 9 - Do you ever recommend people supplement with this as i read its not actually an essential fat(can be manufactored from other unsaturates)? So seems an expensive waste almost. However i didnt find how good our bodys can produce this, so if conversion is poor i guess it may drain our body of other fats in its attempt to create these.
Omega 3 - I asked about this because my "ASDA mackeral" has 4g of omega 3 per tin so 3x tins = 12g so averages around 1.7g/day which is what people seem to be recommending based on EPA fish oil caps(5 of the 180/120 EPA/DHA caps daily). Acceptable intake was set by FDA 1.6g day which my mackeral intake would fit also.
Thanks for your time.
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 15 2008 14:57:49
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drewsky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: richsINS
Omega 6 - Seems as said many times, we get these from a tonne of foods (chicken breast, rice, even sweet potato in small ammounts, and alot in olive oil and other oils etc). So would you ever recommend to anyone to actively look for these in foods?
From what i read it seems there is no need, due to the fact they're everywhere in most peoples diets.
yes, we get a lot of O6, too much as a proportion of the balance but you still need to pay attention to getting good quality n6 Avoid sources that may be sources of damaged O6 fats.
quote:
ORIGINAL: richsINS
Omega 9 - Do you ever recommend people supplement with this as i read its not actually an essential fat(can be manufactored from other unsaturates)? So seems an expensive waste almost. However i didnt find how good our bodys can produce this, so if conversion is poor i guess it may drain our body of other fats in its attempt to create these.
Yes, I don't usually but I do suggest people eat a good variety of foods containing these fat often. Also I find the 'lower tech' your solution the better it works i.e. just get more O3 fats byt eating a portion of O3 containing foods every day.
quote:
ORIGINAL: richsINS
Omega 3 - I asked about this because my "ASDA mackeral" has 4g of omega 3 per tin so 3x tins = 12g so averages around 1.7g/day which is what people seem to be recommending based on EPA fish oil caps(5 of the 180/120 EPA/DHA caps daily). Acceptable intake was set by FDA 1.6g day which my mackeral intake would fit also.
I would recommend more than that, remember governmental recommendations are more socioeconomic than health driven however it depends upon a few things including your total calorie load, your dietary intake (levels and types of fats, protein and carbs) as well as your health.
< Message edited by drewsky -- May 15 2008 15:05:19 >
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 15 2008 15:19:21
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richsINS
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Thanks drew,
I was taking around 3-5fish oil caps a day(1-1.5g/day) then eating 3x makeral(4g each tin) (plus salmon maybe once a week) and thought this may be to much?
However diet contains alot of TVP, Chicken, white pollock fish, tuna, rice and i cook with olive oil. So omega 6 is prob high, therefore what ill do is continue to eat mackeral 3x a week and the salmon(1x) and maybe keep my fish oil intake static at ~3caps a day.
That would give me around 12g + .9gx7 = 18.3g a week of omega 3 [2.6g/daily]
Easy that way.
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 15 2008 15:44:45
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R8V8KING
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So i have 2 makeral a day which contain 4g also, im on a cut so would this be a bad idea???
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 15 2008 19:01:26
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Nigeepoo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: richsINS
Omega 6 - Seems as said many times, we get these from a tonne of foods (chicken breast, rice, even sweet potato in small ammounts, and alot in olive oil and other oils etc). So would you ever recommend to anyone to actively look for these in foods? No, unless someone is on an ultra-low-fat diet.
From what i read it seems there is no need, due to the fact they're everywhere in most peoples diets.
Omega 9 - Do you ever recommend people supplement with this as i read its not actually an essential fat(can be manufactored from other unsaturates)? The body produces roughly equal amounts of sat & mono (omega-9) fats. However, eating undamaged mono fats is a harmless way to bump up Calories from fat. So seems an expensive waste almost. However i didnt find how good our bodys can produce this, so if conversion is poor i guess it may drain our body of other fats in its attempt to create these. Mono fat production in the body is not a problem.
Omega 3 - I asked about this because my "ASDA mackeral" has 4g of omega 3 per tin so 3x tins = 12g so averages around 1.7g/day which is what people seem to be recommending based on EPA fish oil caps(5 of the 180/120 EPA/DHA caps daily). Acceptable intake was set by FDA 1.6g day which my mackeral intake would fit also. Omega-3 is relatively rare, diet-wise. Vegetarians (who don't eat fish) are limited to lin/flaxseeds/oil & Vegan DHA as a decent source of omega-3 fats.
Thanks for your time.
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 16 2008 1:19:44
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richsINS
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Thanks nigee,
Just reading your Ebook again i sat at my desk and hadnt eaten for ~5hours (8pm to 1am) and thought "did i just burn all fat? if so, then starvation would be perfect... so i cant of". Opened your Ebook to see those handy RER graphs which reminded me i probably burnt ~60% perhaps, but maybe not....Perhaps i burnt a bit of muscle too....Meh, ill find out one day with one of those "train smart" tests!
Thanks for your time once again 
< Message edited by richsINS -- May 16 2008 1:20:17 >
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 16 2008 10:41:29
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Tony Barnes
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While inactive you will mainly burn fat. You won't call on protein stores unless activity levels increase and there are no glycogen stores available. Starvation won't kick in in 5 hours. If you were to eat nothing for days on end, whilst doing nothing, you would then also eat into muscle stores, especially if you have lots to hand. This will be because of lack of stimulation would make the body think the muscle isn't needed, and is now just good for energy.
As for original Q - yes, your body stores most types of fats. They don't however store all the direct effects of taking them - i.e. if you take reasonable amounts of LNA daily to stimulate fat burning, then switch to taking a job lot once a day, the daily intake would work better for the fat burn.
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 16 2008 12:10:26
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richsINS
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Ah thanks for summarising tony, so really worrying about muscle loss when you miss a meal is absolutely no concern at all?
What i do wonder then is, when most people cut... they seem to lose some muscle even when they're very carefull to fuel activitys etc, when do you think this most likly occurs?
During sleep seems unlikly, were least active?
Anyway to tell is glycogen stores are full? I assume we just know if they're depleted as we'll feel really fatigued and light headed?
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 16 2008 13:14:07
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Tony Barnes
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You're not going to start burning away lbs of muscle if you miss the odd meal, no, however keeping nitrogen balance positive constantly will increase the chances of you keeping hold of as much muscle as possible when you are in a calorie deficit.
Most people think that they are losing lots of muscle when they cut because they see themselves getting smaller.... unsurprisingly, fat takes up a lot of space. Also if you do lots of cardio timed/tempoed badly, you will happily burn through protein stores rather than fat.
Sleep is when you repair and grow - hence importance of decent protein source in evening, so no, that's probably least likely time.
No idea on glycogen stores in that sense - if you are ready for a competition and re-carbing, you can tell from your fullness turning to spill over. Light headed is low blood sugar - not necessarily low glycogen stores. Eat 1lb of sugar and you will fill your glycogen stores up, but then feel light headed later on as blood sugar plummets (whilst filling your stores! lol).
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 16 2008 15:41:43
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richsINS
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AH true,
Yeah as im now around 10%BF mark i only ever do fueled cardio (eat breakfast, then try to wait an hour or so to digest some of it(hopefully)) then jump on bike for 45minutes.
However now im adding HIIT, which ill probably do later in the day after a few meals are in my system to avoid muscle loss(treat it like a workout), and probably have whey after it also.
Hmm, so kind of tough to pin point where we lose muscle on a cut then?
My lifestyle is sedetry, sat at a PC playing poker or studying and then i do cardio and weights. So wondered where the likly time is i'd lose muscle... cant really think of one...yet no doubt i have dropped some muscle, most people do i believe? Perhaps thats incorrect though? 
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 16 2008 15:46:15
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R3261
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quote:
yet no doubt i have dropped some muscle, most people do i believe? Perhaps thats incorrect though?
trial and error mate
my first cut i dropped kcals far too low far too soon plus i was doing far too much cardio
lesson learnt tho
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 16 2008 15:49:48
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richsINS
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Hmm yeah, i think i may of dropped mine to low although illness meant i went 14days without training my chest, next session = strength loss.
16-1800kcals, then again ive not got much muscle and seen other guys need to go even lower.
However at the same time, lyle mentioned lb of fat supplying ~30kcals a day, ive prob got 15lbs of fat maybe so 450kcals... 2400maintenance, no lower than 2000to cut really, plus the 45minutes cardio or weights EVERY day....maybe im on a road to muscle loss.
Guess ill find out soon when the calipers come out.
Cheers
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 16 2008 16:00:52
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Tony Barnes
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Yep - you lose muscle through starvation, silly CV, and lack of correct training (no message to grow, then body will get rid).
You lose lots of size when the fat goes away
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 16 2008 16:44:29
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Nigeepoo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: richsINS
However at the same time, lyle mentioned lb of fat supplying ~30kcals a day, ive prob got 15lbs of fat maybe so 450kcals... 2400maintenance, no lower than 2000to cut really, plus the 45minutes cardio or weights EVERY day....maybe im on a road to muscle loss. Cheers 1lb of fat actually supplies 3,500kcals. What Lyle was talking about was the maximum daily deficit that you should have, which is 30kcals/lb bodyfat. If you have a higher deficit than that, hormones (e.g. cortisol) start to catabolise muscle.
As BF% decreases, this means that your daily kcal deficit has to decrease to preserve muscle, so rate of weight loss also has to decrease.
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 16 2008 16:50:47
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richsINS
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Yeah thats what i meant mate(not the calorie density of the fatty tissue).
I think my metabolic rate is around the 2200-2400 mark, but im cutting on 1600kcals + Cardio (Prob 300 a day burnt through exercise) and ive maybe 20lbs on me of fat (160lbs, around ~12%BF) so potentially on the road to muscle loss i assume?
Atleast that metabolic rate is after a period of dieting down... so perhaps higher when i eat "normally".
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 16 2008 16:56:33
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Nigeepoo
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As you are carrying ~20lbs of body-fat, your max deficit should be ~600kcals/day, which limits your average rate of weight loss to ~1lb a week.
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 16 2008 17:37:01
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richsINS
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Yeah and i dropped ~3lbs last week,
I wonder, does exercise effect this at all? I.e. calories lost to exercise as opposed to NOT consuming them. Still created a deficit, just by a different route. I guess it owuldnt make much of a difference to the body? Lack of energy is lack of energy right?
I still aim for ~2lbs a week
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RE: Does the body store EFA's? - May 16 2008 17:50:59
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R3261
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deficit is key
where it comes from matters little
your deficit is too large
2 lbs at your size is overkill
maintenance at relatively sedantary:
maintenance at 2400 ( 160 x 15 )
max deficit at (600)
not including the extra cardio/ RE
you should be eating around 1800-1900 kcals
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