Hi all. I have been researching the use of Epidrol for a few months now, and am getting to the point now where I am close to being ready to 'take the plunge'.

I have been cutting now for about 9 weeks, with the aid of Clen/ECA. I predict that I have maybe another 4-6 weeks to go until I will be where I want to be with regards bodyfat, and I've been thinking about using Epidrol for afterwards to start my bulk. But I got to thinking, is it possible to lose fat while gaining muscle on Epi? (I never thought I would here myself asking this question, after believing this impossible for years, but I am new to the world of designer steriods, and the possibilities with their use).

This would, obviously, mean I could start the cycle sooner, but i expect this to be too good to be true in honesty.

My planned PCT would be Nolva.

As I am new to this my main concern is hairloss. I understand that chances are minimal, but this really is my main concern. Anyone had any such sides with epi? If hairloss was to occur would it grow back after cycle? (lol, prob a stupid question).

Also, if I were to do just one cycle, would I be likely to keep much of the gains in strength and size withouth the use of steroids?

I feel I am close to taking a big step after thinking for years that I would never consider the use of steroids, so any feedback/advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Ideally you want to add muslce and lose fat, what epi did for me and others is to put on size fairly slowly not a big gainlike SD. If you diet is right you can lose fat adn gain muslce on Epi but dont expext huge drops. I got aboput 2% drop in BF i could see more viens in the chest area. Its a good med as long as your not to young and have diet and exercise nailed 30mg a day 6-8 weeks done and done

Current Body weight 20 stone:
Cutting -
BP: 137.5 KG
SQ: 125 KG
CR: 550 KG (YESSS)
DL: 184 KG
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Ideally you want to add muslce and lose fat, what epi did for me and others is to put on size fairly slowly not a big gainlike SD. If you diet is right you can lose fat adn gain muslce on Epi but dont expext huge drops. I got aboput 2% drop in BF i could see more viens in the chest area. Its a good med as long as your not to young and have diet and exercise nailed 30mg a day 6-8 weeks done and done

Thanks for that mate. So would size still come even in a calorie defecit while following cutting protocol of fasted SSCV 4 times a week, using carbs mainly around training etc? Or would I be best to wait until I reach desired bf naturally before using epi to lean bulk?

For info, I am 26 years old and my planned cycle would be 6 weeks at 30mg followed by standard Nolva PCT with standard dose of X Lean. I know that many people take liver support with epi. Is this actually required for epi? Just wondering, as money may be an issue for me, but I will not sacrifice my health for the sake of saving cash, just wondering really.

And also, if i were to do just the one cycle and then train naturally for a long period of time, would strength/size gains remain, with diet and training being in check, or would I over time, return to pre-cycle strength/size?

I do apologise for the amount of questions I am throwing in, if its better to start indivudual threads for these questions I will be glad to do so.

Cheers.

liver support is the cheapest thing out of the lot. Shop from extremesupplements and you get it free.

EPIVOL, the first journal!!!!  *click me*

liver support is the cheapest thing out of the lot. Shop from extremesupplements and you get it free.

Wow, i must have missed that then! extremesupplements is the place I intended to buy from, but was unaware of this. Have bought from ihawk before (cissus drol) and have been extremely happy with the service. Cheers.

If you're concerned about hair loss then I'd personally try h-drol (also from extremesupplements) - which is also known for it's recomping effect, similar to epi

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If you're concerned about hair loss then I'd personally try h-drol (also from extremesupplements) - which is also known for it's recomping effect, similar to epi

Thanks Daari, I will spend some time now researching H-drol. One of big attractions of Epidrol to me is it's 'mildness' and low risk of sides, particularly gyno. How does H-Drol compare to epi with regard the minimal risk of gyno. If it has a similarly low risk with the added benefit of less hair-loss risk, then this may well be a better option for me.

Would my planned PCT (Nolva+X=lean) be suitable?

H-drol and epi are both pretty much side effect free. Some people get lower back pumps from epi, some from h-drol (seems to be less common with h-drol though).

H-drol is less androgenic than epi though so does not carry the associated risk of aggravating one's MPB

I have not come accross one chap yet who has gotten gyno from using h-drol as a standalone cycle.

Nolva + x-lean would be a good PCT yes. I would choose the same PCT, but prefer clomid over nolva

A good cycle would be something along the lines of 75mg (3 caps) for 45 days. Which is conveniently exactly 2 bottles worth.

Try spreading out your dosages throughout the day, preferably with a meal containing fats (increases absorption). Something like a cap with breakfast, a cap mid-day and a cap with your last meal of the day (usually before bed)

Good luck with your cycle......enjoy

"Every soul shall have a taste of death. In the end to Us shall you be brought back. (Quran 29:57)"

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Your advice is vey much appreciated, Daari. Having just spent a very short while reading about H-Drol I just cant help but be more attracted to Epidrol. I think perhaps its because I would prefer the slower - more gradual gains (if I am understanding correctly so far).

I know that your recommendation of H-Drol is based on my fear of hair-loss, and the following question made me wonder:

I have not come accross one chap yet who has gotten gyno from using h-drol as a standalone cycle.

on the other side- have you (or anyone for that matter) come across anybody who has sufferd hair-loss from using Epidrol as a stand-alone cycle?

Im on an epi cycle at the mo mate, and I did alot of research on many forums, and one side I never heard anyone complain of was mpb. (on epi)

EPIVOL, the first journal!!!!  *click me*

I think perhaps its because I would prefer the slower - more gradual gains (if I am understanding correctly so far).

Epi and h-drol are both very similar in this regard - both are "slow and steady"

on the other side- have you (or anyone for that matter) come across anybody who has sufferd hair-loss from using Epidrol as a stand-alone cycle?

Yes, I have. It is obviously dose dependant though. I have known people (who are prone to MPB) to lose hair thickness on 30mg of epi.

"Every soul shall have a taste of death. In the end to Us shall you be brought back. (Quran 29:57)"

www.fitnessuncovered.co.uk 

[link=http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/Daaris-3AD-log-m3020603.asp

Daari and Saffaboy, thanks for the replies. I guess I have a decision to make. I've read so many good things about Epidrol, and then my first 10 mins of research of H-Drol gave me a number of anecdotes of forming pea-sized lumps/soreness of nipples.

In all the reading I've done on Epi, I dont think I've found anyone mentioning hair-loss with Epi, but then Daari knowing of people with hair thinning at 30mg is enough to put the frighteners on me lol.

Is any hair thinning on such cycles permanent? Or does it return to normal post cycle?

Would be interesting, also, to hear from anyone's experience with Epidrol who may be prone to male pattern baldness.

here are two interesting reads mate:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/93956-hair-lost.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/95493-poll-what-side.html

EPIVOL, the first journal!!!!  *click me*

EPISTANE is the same as epidrol, in case you didnt know.

With any steroid, you run the risk of losing a bit of hair, if MPB prone. I still think that h-drol is the 'safest' out of all OTC roids

first 10 mins of research of H-Drol gave me a number of anecdotes of forming pea-sized lumps/soreness of nipples.

Any links? I have known nobody to attain gyno from h-drol and I have researched much longer than 10 minutes

"Every soul shall have a taste of death. In the end to Us shall you be brought back. (Quran 29:57)"

www.fitnessuncovered.co.uk 

[link=http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/Daaris-3AD-log-m3020603.asp

EPISTANE is the same as epidrol, in case you didnt know.

Yeah, thanks for the links mate. Interesting reading. Many people reporting little to no sides with both DS's, with a small number of people reporting hairloss with both. It's obviously very person-specific, which means it comes down to making an 'educated gamble' regarding the hairloss thing.

And yeah, thanks, I'm aware of Epidrol/Epethin e being the same compound as Epistane, just referring to Epidrol as it's this particular one I was going to go for. Cheers

With any steroid, you run the risk of losing a bit of hair, if MPB prone. I still think that h-drol is the 'safest' out of all OTC roids

quote:

first 10 mins of research of H-Drol gave me a number of anecdotes of forming pea-sized lumps/soreness of nipples.



Any links? I have known nobody to attain gyno from h-drol and I have researched much longer than 10 minutes

I've just been retracing my steps trying to find what I had seen. I think this thread was one of them...
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_2666369/mpage_1/key_h%252Ddrol%252Clump/tm.htm#2666491

I just realised though that this was when being run at 100mg, much higher than your recommendation of 75mg.

Your view of h-drol being the 'safest' of all OTC is starting to persuade me to go for h-drol. Your recommendation of 75mg for 45 days, would this be the minimum dosage or would it be possible to run at say 50mg and still get gains (for my first time)?

Anything else needed to run alongside, other than Liv-52?

I realise how much help has been given to me in this thread, and I am extremely greatful.

EDIT: Just read this: Do not exceed more than 2 capsules in a 24 hour period. Do not use for more than 30 days without at least a 90 day break in between. So standard dose is 50mg? The 30 days, is this just the usual safety stuff as seen on food supplements etc- no problems with 45 days?

good advice already, either cycle would be fine for your needs but as stated h-drol maybe better hair wise, loss on cycle is however temporary and goes back to normal post cycle, obviously this is only if you are already prone to mpb.

h-drol and liv 52 is all you need, you can of course add to that but those 2 are the core.

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ORIGINAL: ReRaise

ORIGINAL: Ironmansub10BMI

Ideally you want to add muslce and lose fat, what epi did for me and others is to put on size fairly slowly not a big gainlike SD. If you diet is right you can lose fat adn gain muslce on Epi but dont expext huge drops. I got aboput 2% drop in BF i could see more viens in the chest area. Its a good med as long as your not to young and have diet and exercise nailed 30mg a day 6-8 weeks done and done

Thanks for that mate. So would size still come even in a calorie defecit while following cutting protocol of fasted SSCV 4 times a week, using carbs mainly around training etc? Or would I be best to wait until I reach desired bf naturally before using epi to lean bulk?

For info, I am 26 years old and my planned cycle would be 6 weeks at 30mg followed by standard Nolva PCT with standard dose of X Lean. I know that many people take liver support with epi. Is this actually required for epi? Just wondering, as money may be an issue for me, but I will not sacrifice my health for the sake of saving cash, just wondering really.

And also, if i were to do just the one cycle and then train naturally for a long period of time, would strength/size gains remain, with diet and training being in check, or would I over time, return to pre-cycle strength/size?

I do apologise for the amount of questions I am throwing in, if its better to start indivudual threads for these questions I will be glad to do so.

Cheers.

< Message edited by ReRaise -- Jun. 20 2008 19:40:23 >

could someone please answer this part of the question for my benefit? cheers

the gains from 1 cycle or a number of cycles can be kept indeffinantly as long as you natural hormone leves are sufficient to support that amount of muscle mass (plus diet training etc is sorted) the bigger you get the harder the size is to keep off cycle. but note that a very good size can still be achieved before you notably shrink off cycle.

www.extremesupplements.co.uk
www.extremepowerlifting.co.uk
bacteriostatic-water.co.uk