Most of you will have read the threads I made:

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_2520005/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#2520005
when i started and didn't know a lot

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_2499293/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#2499293
feeding back on advice a PT gave me

so instead if going through old ground, i thought i'd list my progress so far since i started the programme with an la fitness trainer

on 27/4/08 (end of april to be easier) he recorded some measurements. this was updated about a month later (end of may) and i am due for another update tomorrow (end of june) ...see progress below in cm from end of april to end of may

arm circumfrance - 27.5 = 27.7

lateral spread - 85 = 86.2

quads - 37 = 41

calfs - 28 = 33

chest incline - 88 = 89

chest flat (furthest point) - 80 = 84

waist - 74 = 70.5

apparantly gaining 4cm on legs was quite good, though i don't know much about this. my programme was changed slightly after end of may, to account that my arms grew, but nowhere near as much as my legs- hence the need to work more on arms. this has been the programme i have been following for the last month, along with the heaviest weight i can do the exercises at- and where these were ones i done since end of april, i have noted the increase in weights used where possibe...

day 1
legs
leg extension machine - 3 x 10 - weight has increased from 30 to 35
leg press machine - 3 x 10 - weight increased from 60 to 70
superset above with rotary calf machine - 1 x 15 - weight increased from 40 to 45
dumbell lunges - 3 x 15 - weight increased from using 8 on each hand to 10 on each hand
ab crunches - 3 x 10
oblique twist - 3 x 10 - weight increased from 25 to 30
plank - basically position myself on a mat similar to doing a push-up and hold the position for 1 minute

day 2
shoulders and triceps
shoulder press machine - 1 x 10 - weight increased from 10 to 15
superset above with front raises with dumbells - 1 x 10 - weight increased from 6 on each hand to 7
shoulder press machine - 1 x 10 - weight increased from 10 to 15
superset above with front raises with dumbells - 1 x 10 - weight increased from 6 on each hand to 7
shoulder press machine - 1 x 10 - weight increased from 10 to 15
superset above with front raises with dumbells - 1 x 10 - weight increased from 6 on each hand to 7
lateral raises with dumbells - 3 x 10 - weight increased from 6 on each hand to 7
rear shoulder head machine - 3 x 10 - weight increased from 45 - 50
dips - 3 x 10 - weight increased from 40 to 70
kickback - 3 x 10 - weight increased from 7.5 to 12.5

day 3
back
lat pulldown machine - 3 x 10 - weight up from 25 to 30
vertical traction machine - 3 x 10 - weight up from 25 to 35
pulley machine - 3 x 10 - weight up from 20 to 25
upper back machine - 3 x 10 - weight up from 15 to 25
superset above with single arm row - 1 x 15 - dumbell of 6
deadlift - 3 x 10 - weight up from 50 to 60

day 4
chest, biceps and triceps
chest press with smith incline - 3 x 10 - dumbell 8 in each hand - dumbell 9 in each hand
superset with barbell incline thing for chest machine - 1 x 15 - weight up from 5 to 10
ez bar close grip arm curl machine - 3 x 10 - weight up from 20 to 25
ez bar tricep pushdown machine - 3 x 10 - weight up from 30 to 45
ez bar wide grip arm curl machine - 3 x 10 - weight up from 20 to 25
rope - 3 x 10 - weight up from 10 to 15

my weight i haven't really kept a diary of every 2 weeks etc at a set time to see any difference, it seems to fluctuate again from 50 to 55 kg.diet varies day to day but typically is...

meal 1 - 300ml skimmed milk with half scoop whey (20g protein) or 3 fried eggs

meal 2 - 75g dry roasted nuts

meal 3 - tuna, pasta salad or chicken salad

meal 4 - noodles or brown rice

meal 5 or pre work out - this is something i need to address as it tend to be the one just before i leave work (when i want to leave quickly- so i can head to the gym as soon as i get home)

GYM- tend to have simple carbs during workout for insulin spike, i burn it off so not too worried

meal 6 or post work out - 300ml skimmed mik with half scoop whey (20g protein) or the typically asian food i mentioned in earlier posts, or chicken, fish etc

your diet is still poor
your routine is also still poor mate

if your happy keep plugging away but you could make gains much faster

ill break it down to make it simple for you

Diet

I know you dont like eating alot so Eat 4 decent sized meals a day each with a

Carb(pasta, bread, potato,rice, noodle, cous cous oats) and a protein(any meat)+ a veg(for two of the meals)

Snack on some fruit and nuts during the day.

for training

day 1
legs

Leg press/squats 4x10
leg extension machine 3X10
Leg curl 3X10
Calf raise 3X20
Abs if you wish

day 2
shoulders and triceps
Dumbell shoulder press/military press 4x10
Lateral raises 3x10
Dips 3x10
finish with rope push dows to failure

day 3
back bicep

Dead lift 4x6
Row 3x10
chins/lat pull 3x10
Curls 3x10

day 4
chest

Incline dumbell press 4x10
flat dumbell press 2x10(both working sets)
abs

Keep it simple

If you do the above for intensely 10 weeks solid you will see good gains

I like to be fashionable, I usually wear my jeans pretty loose so people can see my deseigner boxers and my shirt small&tight so you can see my Armani belt buckle

[link=http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_260204

i'll bear it in mind and feedback tomorrow when i see my trainer. true that though my apitite has increased since gymming, it's nowhere as near as big as others on here. i think i can do 6 meals a day but they wouldn't be as big as some would recommend.

routine i know from this forum ppl have said parts are fine others they would change bits of it but like you said, it's working so i think i'll stick with it for time being, i guess it's all trial and error though, might be worth for one month changing it to see if there are significantly more gains. i will wait to see what trainer tells me tomorrow when i have seen if i have gained one month on.

with the diet im currently on, im taking in say 13-20g protein per meal. if you say to grow i need 1.5-2g per kg bw then i should aim for 50-55kg = (taking 55) 82.5 - 110g daily. 110g split over 6 meals is 18.3 so i could probably do with upping the protein content to average to closer to 18 than say 15 but then it's numbers i guess and others have said forget about numbers and just eat til i am full, but not so full that i cannot eat again in 2.5hours

ORIGINAL: girish
with the diet im currently on, im taking in say 13-20g protein per meal. if you say to grow i need 1.5-2g per kg bw then i should aim for 50-55kg = (taking 55) 82.5 - 110g daily. 110g split over 6 meals is 18.3 so i could probably do with upping the protein content to average to closer to 18 than say 15 but then it's numbers i guess and others have said forget about numbers and just eat til i am full, but not so full that i cannot eat again in 2.5hours

ORIGINAL: john_cappa
Keep it simple

I like to be fashionable, I usually wear my jeans pretty loose so people can see my deseigner boxers and my shirt small&tight so you can see my Armani belt buckle

[link=http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_260204

my form hasn't been right on some exercises so trainer showed me different ways. e.g. arm curl on ez bar, i wasn't balanced. suggested standing one foot in front of the other so help balance but better than this is lying down on my back, head on the mat and then doing the curls.

also on dips, strangely i find it easier on a lighter weight- which seems to defeat the purpose! trainer didn't know what to say but my form wasn't right, which he said could be a factor- esp when trying the higher weight which i struggled with. i couldn't get my arm to stay straight and no matter how hard i tried, kept beding my elbow. trainer has replaced this with one where the palms of my hands are on the bench and legs laid out and i sort of do a squatting motion which keeps the right form.

i explained that in some exercises, the weights have dropped since above, he said this was due to (after looking at programme,) the fact that i had already exhausted myself with the previous exercise which was good but i should look to use a lighter weight in the 1st set so i can complete 3 sets, rather than e.g. 10 / 10 / 7.

getting updated measurements on sunday when i will gauge gain progress and trainer said he was going to shake things up which he would tell me more about then, but he mentioned moving to 2 x 6 in some instances to really build my strength more.

also showed me cardio on the heart rate monitor. i don't like running but apparantly the treadmill is the best cardio workout so i can live with that if i know it's going to get me results quicker. 3 x a week aiming to hit 140 is the aim. he told me to try 2 mins on and 2 mins off 8.5 as 10.5 may be too fast for me as i haven't really done intensive cardio before.

ORIGINAL: girish

my form hasn't been right on some exercises so trainer showed me different ways. e.g. arm curl on ez bar, i wasn't balanced. suggested standing one foot in front of the other so help balance but better than this is lying down on my back, head on the mat and then doing the curls.

lying down bicep curls????

ORIGINAL: girish
also on dips, strangely i find it easier on a lighter weight- which seems to defeat the purpose! trainer didn't know what to say but my form wasn't right, which he said could be a factor- esp when trying the higher weight which i struggled with. i couldn't get my arm to stay straight and no matter how hard i tried, kept beding my elbow. trainer has replaced this with one where the palms of my hands are on the bench and legs laid out and i sort of do a squatting motion which keeps the right form.

No it does not defeat the purpose, no point lifting more than you are able, aim to increase weights slowly

ORIGINAL: girish
i explained that in some exercises, the weights have dropped since above, he said this was due to (after looking at programme,) the fact that i had already exhausted myself with the previous exercise which was good but i should look to use a lighter weight in the 1st set so i can complete 3 sets, rather than e.g. 10 / 10 / 7.

Hmm maybe maybe not

ORIGINAL: girish
getting updated measurements on sunday when i will gauge gain progress and trainer said he was going to shake things up which he would tell me more about then, but he mentioned moving to 2 x 6 in some instances to really build my strength more.

tell him muscletalk have advised droping some of the bull**** exercises such as kick backs and focusing on compound movements

I like to be fashionable, I usually wear my jeans pretty loose so people can see my deseigner boxers and my shirt small&tight so you can see my Armani belt buckle

[link=http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_260204

ORIGINAL: john_cappa

ORIGINAL: girish

my form hasn't been right on some exercises so trainer showed me different ways. e.g. arm curl on ez bar, i wasn't balanced. suggested standing one foot in front of the other so help balance but better than this is lying down on my back, head on the mat and then doing the curls.

lying down bicep curls????

bicep curls with the ez bar attached to the machine- you can do this wide grip and close grip. before my form wasn't great. i found i was leaning/arching back- probably because the weight was too much. then the trainer suggesed i stand with one foot ahead of the other to support myself.but he said one thing which would really help develop the bicep is lying down on a mat, on my back with my head on the mat. then doing the bicep curl in this position so i can get more of a full extention.

ORIGINAL: girish
also on dips, strangely i find it easier on a lighter weight- which seems to defeat the purpose! trainer didn't know what to say but my form wasn't right, which he said could be a factor- esp when trying the higher weight which i struggled with. i couldn't get my arm to stay straight and no matter how hard i tried, kept beding my elbow. trainer has replaced this with one where the palms of my hands are on the bench and legs laid out and i sort of do a squatting motion which keeps the right form.

No it does not defeat the purpose, no point lifting more than you are able, aim to increase weights slowly

ok unless i misheard my trainer, i was under the understanding that on dips, the more weight that is on the dips, the less you are lifting of your own bodyweight- hence why technically this is supposed to be easier. he found it strange as i found it easier when i was lifting a lighter weight on the machine, which technically was supposed to make me lift more of my bodyweight- again may have got this mixed up though. at the end of the day my form is horrible so the replacement will sort this out.

ORIGINAL: girish
i explained that in some exercises, the weights have dropped since above, he said this was due to (after looking at programme,) the fact that i had already exhausted myself with the previous exercise which was good but i should look to use a lighter weight in the 1st set so i can complete 3 sets, rather than e.g. 10 / 10 / 7.

Hmm maybe maybe not

worth a try maybe though. it's something i have thought about as technically if you are doing 3 x 10 with the 10th rep being to exhaustion, then it makes sense that you could possibly not complete the 3rd set of 10 reps as you are working yourself so hard. e.g. if i am doing 10 / 10 / 7 at 15kg should i continue this as i am only 2 reps away from completing the set, or drop the weight so i complete the set

ORIGINAL: girish
getting updated measurements on sunday when i will gauge gain progress and trainer said he was going to shake things up which he would tell me more about then, but he mentioned moving to 2 x 6 in some instances to really build my strength more.

tell him muscletalk have advised droping some of the bull**** exercises such as kick backs and focusing on compound movements

he knows about this anyway and when i showed the recommendations he said this is a strength training programme but i want you to have endurance also- i guess why he has more exercises in my programme and a few supersets. i found dumbell lunges and squats felt the same and was getting really boring so ditched the squats. i think i will stick with what he is giving me though, keen to see what happens after this 2 x 6 new programme. if im gaining and im feeling comfortable then im not going to alter anything. like i said maybe it's worth at some point doing 1 month of what was recommended on here but not right now.

i found dumbell lunges and squats felt the same and was getting really boring so ditched the squats.

Why on earth would you ditch this...it's one of the main compound exercises!! Loose the lunges if it's one or the other, IMO

What are your main goals?? From what I've read it looks to me as if your faffing about in the gym. As someone has already told you, you could be making far better gains with suggestions on here, than from your trainer. I'm not saying your routine is poor, but it could be a whole lot better if you dropped the isolation exercises for a bit and concentrate on your main compounds - bench, squats, deadlifts...

Just my opinion, good luck and keep us updated

My first ever log!!!
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_2731554/tm.htm

goals haven't changed, upper body strength/muscle and lost the fat on my stomach. ive got the cardio set-up to do 15mins 3 x a week hitting my heart rate thing at 140.

the movement of squats and lunges felt the same to me so i got really really bored so he said we can lose the squats but i want to keep the lunges in. deadlift i am doing. im using the incline bench but for a superuset at the moment.

i want to see what changes he intends to make to this new programme he will give me on sunday. i think when i said you guys suggested i get compund movements most, he said we have these in...i guess your argument is that these are all i need so i should ditch the rest?

ORIGINAL: girish

goals haven't changed, upper body strength/muscle and lost the fat on my stomach. ive got the cardio set-up to do 15mins 3 x a week hitting my heart rate thing at 140.

the movement of squats and lunges felt the same to me so i got really really bored so he said we can lose the squats but i want to keep the lunges in. deadlift i am doing. im using the incline bench but for a superuset at the moment.

i want to see what changes he intends to make to this new programme he will give me on sunday. i think when i said you guys suggested i get compund movements most, he said we have these in...i guess your argument is that these are all i need so i should ditch the rest?

Hi mate,
Sorry I must have missed reading your goals in your initial post...
Which cardio approach are your taking each session? I'd recommend HIIT, if you're only doing 15min sessions??
Unless you have poor form on the squats, they'd be far more beneficial than lunges (correct me if I'm wrong anyone?) especially for building strength in the lower body.

Personally from all the help I've had from guys on here, most will recommend sticking to the major push/pull compiund movements, but you dont have to ditch all the isolation exercises...perhaps only use a couple per session for added variety. IMO isolation movements have never made me stronger, well not like compound exercises but are good to do once your happy with strength and leaned up a bit so you can see definition

stronglifts.com have some good beginners routines, maybe check that out for ideas of your own

My first ever log!!!
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_2731554/tm.htm

your trainer wants you to do biceps curls lying down and says its ok to drop squats


lol

Im out! I cant compete with that

Best of luck with it!

I like to be fashionable, I usually wear my jeans pretty loose so people can see my deseigner boxers and my shirt small&tight so you can see my Armani belt buckle

[link=http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_260204

im not surprised you missed my goals in my initial posts as the first threads i posted, which i linked to, would take years to read lol

in terms of my cardio goal, it's to lose fat from my stomach. i'm naturally slim but for some reason that's where the fat seems to go so i'd like to lose it and then tone the stomach up.there's not a lot to lose maybe 2 inches or so but i haven't really done cardio properly yet. i've been given all sorts of cardio advice.

some on this forum suggested i do 40 mins at a pace where i can do this, but do it hard. my trainer suggested that wasn't great as i would lose muscle. it's more important i work at my heart rate thing which we worked out to be 140. he said i would not really burn the calories i needed if i worked below 140. 15mins 3 x a week is ideal for me as i have a 4 day split and could do this on the day's i don't work my legs (3x a week) and after training so my heart rate would be up anyway, so it's less effort to reach 140.

they have the cross trainer, steps machine, treadmill, cycling machine and rower in my gym. at the end of the day as much as i hate the treadmill, its worth it and motivation enough if i know it will be the best cardio work out and will get me results quicker. tried it with the trainer sunday and hit 8.5 and 10.5 speed. he said as i hadn't really worked cardio b4, good to aim no more than 8.5 speed but could try higher if i wanted to. aim for 2 mins on 2 mins off. i found during last sunday that when i was in a comfortable zone my pace slowed down so he upped the speed so i worked to get back up to 140 again.

I have to agree with John and Rocky. You need to seriously address your diet and your training. Also is this PT in any good shape whatsoever. Doing bicep curls for someone that is starting is useless. Stick with the main compound exercises, build muscle and forget about cardio apart from conditioning.

You only weight 55kg, that is what 121lb (8st 9lb)? How tall are you because that is alarmingly little.

Add protein and good carbs to your meals to add slabs of meat to your bones. Do squats, deadlifts, military presses, bench presses, barbell rows, chins (narrow and wide), dips and foregoe any isolation mambo jambo. If you had the size already and wanted to cut for competition then by all means use isolations, but you in your frame and size dont need any of it.

The only other advice I give to you is to take advantage of the wealth information at your disposal on this website. You have hundreds of people here who know their stuff, competitive bbers, powerlifters and martial artists, nutrition specialists and professionals and many that have been there and did all the mistakes already and are letting you on the secrets so you dont waste your time in the gym as well.

Anyway, either way, good luck with it all!

My Journal - 6 Pack Quest

lying bicep curls??? wth, once you lift it more than an inch all the weight is off the bicep just about.

sack the stupid pt, if indeed he actually exists, to be honest it sounds like your coming up with this stuff yourself, if he really does exist he is totally f'ing useless.

get a nice simple routine off here, form should only take a couple of goes to get right, unless you have something wrong with you.

get a nice simple diet off here

you will make far more progress than you will with things how they stand at the moment.

rotor cuffs are a nightmare society founding member

thanks for the tips, like i said this journal is a way to keep myself tracked with my progress and to take into consideration additional opinions.

im 5 ft 5 and have always been slim all my life. i am not really too fussed with weight just want to get a bit stronger in my upper body and lose about 2 inches of fat from my stomach and tone this up.

the guy i am seeing is one of the trainers at la fitness, he isn't a PT so im not paying. he's 20, polish, well built and weighs 95kg. everyone at la fitness, even the massive bodybuilders say he is the best guy to see for strength training & he seems to be very popular at the gym with everyone.

like somone said above, in him i have found something which is making me gains and i feel comfortable with the programme so am going to stick with it. i might make gains faster by changing things but im happy with what i am doing and don't find it as stressful now as i did when i first started researching everything on diet ands routines, so if it means i make gains slower than i could be, then im not bothered as im happy with what im doing at the moment.

like i said, im open to suggestions and will bring the above post to his attention to possibly try this suggested muscletalk routine of just compound lifts for 1 month and see if i make more gains etc.

some on this forum suggested i do 40 mins at a pace where i can do this, but do it hard. my trainer suggested that wasn't great as i would lose muscle.

I think quite a few will disagree with your trainers comments, but what ever you are comfortable with fella.

You're contradicting yourself now...

will get me results quicker

so if it means i make gains slower than i could be, then im not bothered as im happy with what im doing at the moment.

Everyone on here is suggesting ways of getting results in the best possible way, which will more than likely work quicker than anything you've told us so far.

I dont mean to sound harsh, I was in a similar situation when I started (although I didnt have a PT telling me stuff!!).

My first ever log!!!
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_2731554/tm.htm

the cardio workout which will be more effective is the treadmill, thats what i meant to say. at the end of the day i haven't really done cardio regularly to see if it what trainer has suggested will work, only this week i have started but i haven't got the heart hate monitor yet so difficult to gauge if i am hitting 140.

you're not being rude but like i said, i was really stressed out when i first got all sorts of advice on here, esp on the diet but also on training. in my trainer, as good or bad as he might be, i am seeing gains. they might not be as quick as you say i could make them but i'm happy and comfortable with what i am doing, which to me is the main thing.

when i stop seeing gains then i will say ok we need to change this. i really want to go with this new programme he wants to set me, where he is incorporaitng 2 x 6 etc in and see if it makes any difference.

i will point out again the compound vs isolation debate raised on here.

Seeing trainer tomorrow evening now.

Read through comments and I know I'm not eating as much as I shoud be so thought I should address this re advice etc.

I think the problem here is more mental than physical. You see, growing up I only ever ate 3 meals a day- breakast, lunch and dinner. It was all I knew. As such, even when I was hungry, I didn't ask for a meal as I thought it wasn't the norm.

Then in my teen years when I was hungry and needed to eat something inbetween my 1st & 2nd or 2nd & 3rd meal, I went for the easy option and snacked on chocolate, crisps and alike. But again, not much of this at all, just something to tide me over.

Because I'm not used to eating more than 3 meals a day, let alone the large portion sizes some on here are saying I have to for each meal, I do find myself getting stressed out because what might seem easy for some is very difficult for me. In terms of what my eating pattern was like before, I have tried and I guess have improved on it, but because I haven't been used to it for years, it's getting into a new habit which I am finding a little stressful but also rather daunting.