i'm 6 foot, 14 stone, not sure what my bodyfat is but can't imagine it's high as i'm quite toned (although i'm bulking now so not at my leanest). i train 4/5 times a week very hard.

i'm on a test e cycle and was wondering how many calories i should be consuming a day and what ratio of macronutrients?

i know i should know all this before i went on cycle but i always just tried to aim for 3,500 - 4,000 cals. i thought this would be enough but recently i've started to doubt this as i have read a few posts of people consuming up to 7000 cals.

Current stats:
6 foot; 14 stone

Bench press: 8 x 115kg
Squat: 8 x 120kg
DB shoulder press: 8 x 36kg

if you bulking eat as much as you can imo lol, i wish i could get in 7000cal i struggle to get 5000cal

SIZE = FOOD

* steroids are an addition to a good diet and training routine not a miracle drug!

age: 24
height: 6ft2
start weight ..... feb 2004: 136ib
current weight 21/mar/08: 212ib
current stats: bulking

Why eat as much as you can Stone? There is only so much muscle to gain, after that it will be fat. Aim for around 2lbs muscle a week on cycle and adjust your diet if you aren't gaining. 7000 calories would be too much for your size and is most likely from a big chap.
It seems bulking for some is an excuse to eat a lot of crap!

Add another 500cals to your diet and adjust from there depending on weight gain goals etc.

Add another 500cals to your diet and

That won't even cover the calorie expenditure of working out, let alone building mucle. IMO

It seems bulking for some is an excuse to eat a lot of crap

some are dirty bulkers but stone's signiture says it best SIZE=FOOD,

7000 calories would be too much for your size and is most likely from a big chap

It would be more than enough. Point is it's easier to strip fat (for most) than build muscle. Fat is easy to drop, so why not eat a lot of food to maximise gains?

if you bulking eat as much as you can imo lol

I agree this is a good rule of thumb. keeping the cals as clean as you can. But if the choice is an extra bit of junk food like a mars bar, or nothing at all- have the mars bar.

if you've stuck with that routine for so long and not gained anything on your arms its a sign it aint working.

Your masterful grip on the blatently obvious continues to amaze me[/block

cheers fellas. so are you guys saying i should aim for around 4500 cals daily?

stone i remember you told me you eat 5 x 1000 cal meals a day. i'm thinking this is pretty clever and am gonna start doing this also.

can you post up some examples of 1000cal meals pal? also are you a hard gainer? i ask because your starting weight was 136lb's and now, judging from your avi you're a ****ing unit mate. you've done well boy....

Current stats:
6 foot; 14 stone

Bench press: 8 x 115kg
Squat: 8 x 120kg
DB shoulder press: 8 x 36kg

I agree some people think to bulk is to eat and eat and eat This just leads to piling on the fat.
Lets be honest here you can only put very little muscle on in a month even less in a week.
Yes after training hard for a week you need cals to replace and repair your muscles but you have to be realistic here you only need about 300 - 500 cals above your maintenence levels to build muscle.

So in other words if you usually consume 3000 cals a day then consume 3500 cals and that will be enough to build on.

To get about 500 cals a day extra you only need to drink a couple of protein shakes mixed with skimmed milk and you will build muscle.

If you normally eat 3000 cals a day then suddenly increase to 7000 cals a day then quess what all your going to build is fat.

Some people get it all wrong when they eat eat and eat.

hard gainers need alot of food, some times more than they can actually get down, i struggle to get in 5000cals per day, and while off aas i dont gain any size, fat, weight. im 14st10 at the min so i would need to eat more than i am to gain. so some ppl like me can need alot more than others. this is why i said i wish i could eat 7000cals per day

SIZE = FOOD

* steroids are an addition to a good diet and training routine not a miracle drug!

age: 24
height: 6ft2
start weight ..... feb 2004: 136ib
current weight 21/mar/08: 212ib
current stats: bulking

I agree some people think to bulk is to eat and eat and eat This just leads to piling on the fat.

Seems to be the fashion with a lot of people, especially with those of us who train recreationally (e.g: who don't compete in bodybuiling shows). I rarely see a big guy who is actually in condition. I see many who carry a lot of mass and size, look strong as f*ck, but TBH its seems quite rare to see guys who have size, shape & conditioning.

Of course if you're trying to build muscle, then you need to eat and you will gain some bodyfat. But I think a lot of guys do use it as an excuse to eat anything and everything. You need to eat a lot yes, but that doesn't mean binging on loads of junk.
I did this to begin with and gained a lot of bodyfat and just looked bloated.

Not that there is anything particularly wrong with that if that's the way you wanna do it, but personally I don't see the point in gaining an extra 15-20lbs of bodyfat which I'm only going to have to work my ass off to get rid of later down the road when I could just be sensible and not actually have to get that out of shape and be able to get myself in pretty good condition within like 8 weeks.

I agree, you probably only need like 300-500calories extra above your maintainance level to gain. But maybe you could get away with more on cycle since your body is more efficient at synthesising the proteins due to increased nitrogen retention..etc. So in other words, the calories you consume will be used up more effectively for muscle building/repair.

ORIGINAL: Funkyfresh

I don't see the point in gaining an extra 15-20lbs of bodyfat

not everyone gains this much fa/weightt from eating large amounts of food tho, what makes 1 guy fat can have no effect in weight on the next guy.

some guys gain off 3500cals some 5000 some 8000, everyone is dif

SIZE = FOOD

* steroids are an addition to a good diet and training routine not a miracle drug!

age: 24
height: 6ft2
start weight ..... feb 2004: 136ib
current weight 21/mar/08: 212ib
current stats: bulking

stone see my post above.

Current stats:
6 foot; 14 stone

Bench press: 8 x 115kg
Squat: 8 x 120kg
DB shoulder press: 8 x 36kg

ORIGINAL: big140

1) cheers fellas. so are you guys saying i should aim for around 4500 cals daily?

2) stone i remember you told me you eat 5 x 1000 cal meals a day. i'm thinking this is pretty clever and am gonna start doing this also.

3) can you post up some examples of 1000cal meals pal? also are you a hard gainer? i ask because your starting weight was 136lb's and now, judging from your avi you're a ****ing unit mate. you've done well boy....

1)imo this would be a good starting point at your weight imo

2) i was having:
a)
full english breakfast = 3 sausage, 150g bacon, 2 eggs, tin beans (all grilled or non stick pan so excess fat was drained off)
2 slice toast
500ml fresh orange juice
total cals 1000-1300

b
jjs smoothie
total cals 800-900

c (train)
carb drink 100g carbs
pwo shake
total cals 900-1000

d
some sort of meal, ie spag boll, mince potato, etc etc
total cals 1000

e
jjs smoothie
total cals 800-900

and try and get snacks from ie oats
and can replace last jjs with whole food if i can manage it.

i would say i am a hard gainer, most of my weight gained has been aas assisted. i find it extremly hard to gain natty, i can eat all day and still stay same size, i also do no aerobic exersises to try and save my cals for muscle building. so i am unfit.

SIZE = FOOD

* steroids are an addition to a good diet and training routine not a miracle drug!

age: 24
height: 6ft2
start weight ..... feb 2004: 136ib
current weight 21/mar/08: 212ib
current stats: bulking

I think a lot of people claim to be hard gainers because they don't appreicate how much food they may need to eat. If you aren't gaining naturally then your diet isn't correct surely?
For a 1000calorie meal, you could have the above, but I am assuimg you are a bodybuilder. How about 150g of oats, a bananna (greener the better), some peanut butter, skimmed milk, protein powder.

I agree entirely withb Angel and Funky here.

ORIGINAL: CJW

I think a lot of people claim to be hard gainers because they don't appreicate how much food they may need to eat. If you aren't gaining naturally then your diet isn't correct surely?

i agree with this, well i may not be a hard gainer if i could eat enough to grow, i thin for some ppl eating enough can be harder than the training, if your full and cant get anymore in without making your self sick, what do you do?

it is harder when your at work any you eat till your full and then need to graft when realy you just wana lie down cause you some stuffed and feeling sluggish lol.

its ok saying some ppl who claim to be hard gainers just done appreciate how much they need to eat, but you cant keep eating and eating, you can only fit so much in, if your body doesnt process the food fast enough to make room for more you cant eat no more

SIZE = FOOD

* steroids are an addition to a good diet and training routine not a miracle drug!

age: 24
height: 6ft2
start weight ..... feb 2004: 136ib
current weight 21/mar/08: 212ib
current stats: bulking

Wake up earlier and get more meals in. Liquid meals are an option as well. I agree that force feeding dry chicken and pasta into your mouth when you feel about to burst is far from pleasant but it seems to be the omly way.

this is why i like the jjs, yes its a liquid but it is mainly oats which is all good, not like other weight gainers that you can by full of sugar

SIZE = FOOD

* steroids are an addition to a good diet and training routine not a miracle drug!

age: 24
height: 6ft2
start weight ..... feb 2004: 136ib
current weight 21/mar/08: 212ib
current stats: bulking

ORIGINAL: CJW

I agree that force feeding dry chicken and pasta into your mouth when you feel about to burst is far from pleasant but it seems to be the omly way.

when you have the chicken in your mouth and you no you need to swallow it but you cant you just keep chewing and it feels like your throats closed up and your mouth goes dry, trying to wash it down with water but you still keep chewing, its torcher

SIZE = FOOD

* steroids are an addition to a good diet and training routine not a miracle drug!

age: 24
height: 6ft2
start weight ..... feb 2004: 136ib
current weight 21/mar/08: 212ib
current stats: bulking

i agree with stone on this one. i think as we have exactly the same problem. i need to take in a hell of a lot of calories to grow naturally. and with a couple of days slacking off the eating (i.e only 3 meals) i'll be ripped and shredded but back to square one again weight wise.

for me training hard and sleeping are the easy and enjoyable bits. it's the diet side that i find hard - the constant cooking and washing up. on days off its fine but at work it's hard to find time to eat all the time as i don't have a regular 9-5 job - u have to take a quick 5 minutes when/if you can.

i get tired of constantly eating the same crap and sometimes i feel so obsessive about getting the calories/protein in daily that at times it can depress me alot. every day i feel pressure to get my 6 meals in me.however, if i don't do it then i feel i haven't achieved anything and get more depressed.

what makes it harder is the fact that i'm allergic to milk so there's a big list of foods i need to avoid. the main and most useful one being whey protein.

i also have the JSS but the vegan version which packs a whopping 900 odd cals....

i also avoid cardio as it would mean i'd have to consume even more calories to grow as i'd have to compensate for the extra energy being burnt. this means i've got a good physique but am unfit.

Current stats:
6 foot; 14 stone

Bench press: 8 x 115kg
Squat: 8 x 120kg
DB shoulder press: 8 x 36kg

ORIGINAL: big140

i'm 6 foot, 14 stone, not sure what my bodyfat is but can't imagine it's high as i'm quite toned (although i'm bulking now so not at my leanest). i train 4/5 times a week very hard.

i'm on a test e cycle and was wondering how many calories i should be consuming a day and what ratio of macronutrients?

i know i should know all this before i went on cycle but i always just tried to aim for 3,500 - 4,000 cals. i thought this would be enough but recently i've started to doubt this as i have read a few posts of people consuming up to 7000 cals.

What I did (and I don't know if this is the right way to go about it) was to measure my calorie intake pre-cycle which had kept me at a constant weight for the previous 12 months never deviating more than a pound from my normal weight. I then added approx 750 calories each day to that on cycle. I am training at a slightly higher intensity now, but not much more so. Seems to be working as I am putting on muscle and fat/water four and a half weeks into my first cycle.

What works for you will not work for EVERYONE

if you've stuck with that routine for so long and not gained anything on your arms its a sign it aint working.

Your masterful grip on the blatently obvious continues to amaze me[/block