A few weeks ago, I finally took the step of going to the doctors to report of constant tiredness and lethargy, poor sleeping pattern (I wake 2-4 times a night), general irritability during the day, poor libido and bedroom problems.

I had basic blood work done after the initial consultation, everything was in order apart from urea, creatinine & AST levels were slightly elevated. All as a result of training & diet. The Dr I saw was convinced this was oral steroid use, so when I told him it wasn't, he referred me to a specialist at the hospital.

When I saw him, we went through the same rigmerole and then he sent me for more bloods.

I got the results of these through yesterday, though only seems to include a few things:
Total Creatine Kinase: 320 ui/l (25-175)
Alanine Transaminase: 38 iu/l (0-42)
FSH: 2.9 iu/l (1.6-18.0)
Prolactin: 157 miu/l (45-440)
Testosterone: 14.4 (8.4-28.7)

To me, my test levels and FSH levels looks very low considering my age (24) and the fact I don't drink. Bare in mind blood was taken at nearly midday when natty levels would have reduced somewhat anyway, and I'd done some gentle cardio that morning and I was in a very slight calorie deficit.

The letter attached to the results (I'd requested a copy of them) was a return letter to my GP summing up by saying (quote) "There is no suggestion of any endocrine deficiency. I sometimes wonder, however, whether creatinine supplements and other body building supplements are laced with anabolic steroids. Also, I suspect his sexual performance would improve if he exercised less intensely. I am not arranging to review him again."

So now I have some questions...

Am I overtraining?

Am I stressed?

Should I be worried by those results?

What can I take as the next step?

Basically, as far as the Dr's are concerned, I've to give up training & eating like a BBer and I'll return to "normal". I wouldn't mind but I feel my training is nicely balanced and I train a lot less regularily and long as many of my friends and they don't have any problems.

Personally, I think it is the poor quality of my sleep that is causing me problems.

Please help!

Journal & Training Log

Sorry mate, just to clarify - are you natural or just avoiding orals? That bit wasn't 100% clear to me.

I had bloods done when I was natural years ago after developing a little problem and I well remember the doctor looking in shock at the test report when it came back - creatinine and urea were through the roof - at a time when I didn't even know what creatine supps were let alone anabolics.

It got referred to an endocrinologist who was also the hospital's main cardiologist and he said it was nothing at all to worry about and he'd seen plenty of test results where urea and creatinine were through the roof in weight-training natural males. I think I'm right in saying that raised creatinine levels are a marker of muscle stress/damage.

Have you considered a day on, day off training programme to give yourself some more downtime.

I know when I'm stressed or training too much or have a lot on my mind sleeping patterns go out the window and the little chap can't even raise a smile.

MT all-round Member of the Year 2006 and 2007

Now at Undergroundmuscle.co.uk

Sorry mate, just to clarify - are you natural or just avoiding orals? That bit wasn't 100% clear to me.

No, wasn't using orals. I did a 3-week superdrol cycle earlier in the year, but this blood was at least 3 months post-PCT.

Have you considered a day on, day off training programme to give yourself some more downtime.

This is something that predates me taking training and diet seriously, talking 5 years or so really. I've recently taken a step back from training, 3 times a week now with a couple of gentle cardio sessions. I admit work-stress keeps me awake some nights, but regardless of that I wake a lot in the night, I just wasn't aware of it, my girlfriend pointed it out to me and since she did, I'm aware of myself waking, even if its only for 30 seconds or so.

Journal & Training Log

I know when I'm stressed or training too much or have a lot on my mind sleeping patterns go out the window and the little chap can't even raise a smile.

When I think about it, I might be in denial of the fact that I am stressed with work/career/money things a lot, I probably train (or certainly have done) a little too often and don't get enough, quality sleep. Can all these factors = my predicament?

I'm not the only one who doesn't enjoy their work and trains a lot, but I seem to be the only one with these issues!!?

Journal & Training Log

ORIGINAL: 1MR

A few weeks ago, I finally took the step of going to the doctors to report of constant tiredness and lethargy, poor sleeping pattern (I wake 2-4 times a night), general irritability during the day, poor libido and bedroom problems.

I had basic blood work done after the initial consultation, everything was in order apart from urea, creatinine & AST levels were slightly elevated. All as a result of training & diet. The Dr I saw was convinced this was oral steroid use, so when I told him it wasn't, he referred me to a specialist at the hospital.

When I saw him, we went through the same rigmerole and then he sent me for more bloods.

I got the results of these through yesterday, though only seems to include a few things:
Total Creatine Kinase: 320 ui/l (25-175)
Alanine Transaminase: 38 iu/l (0-42)
FSH: 2.9 iu/l (1.6-18.0)
Prolactin: 157 miu/l (45-440)
Testosterone: 14.4 (8.4-28.7)

To me, my test levels and FSH levels looks very low considering my age (24) and the fact I don't drink. Bare in mind blood was taken at nearly midday when natty levels would have reduced somewhat anyway, and I'd done some gentle cardio that morning and I was in a very slight calorie deficit.

The letter attached to the results (I'd requested a copy of them) was a return letter to my GP summing up by saying (quote) "There is no suggestion of any endocrine deficiency. I sometimes wonder, however, whether creatinine supplements and other body building supplements are laced with anabolic steroids. Also, I suspect his sexual performance would improve if he exercised less intensely. I am not arranging to review him again."

So now I have some questions...

Am I overtraining?

Am I stressed?

Should I be worried by those results?

What can I take as the next step?

Basically, as far as the Dr's are concerned, I've to give up training & eating like a BBer and I'll return to "normal". I wouldn't mind but I feel my training is nicely balanced and I train a lot less regularily and long as many of my friends and they don't have any problems.

Personally, I think it is the poor quality of my sleep that is causing me problems.

Please help!

CK is a joke when it comes to muscular training. Any muscular trauma will elevate CK. Someone punches you in the arm, you inject yourself in the leg, you'll get an increase in CK. So imagine what happens to it when you put yourself through a "lift weights to failure" scenario. I'll tell you what happens, you get a result like mine - CK of 975, over 7x the upper limit. So next time I had a blood test I had it on a monday morning when I hadn't trained since Friday. It was about 220 then.

Incidentally there are at least 2 isoforms of the CK enzyme, one is specific to heart and if the Dr did a test to determine the 2 different values (I think one ia alpha the other beta), your heart one would no doubt be fine and the skeletal muscle one elevated. It simply happens from any muscular trauma, and the way we often train is quite severe for that, hence the high CK values.

You are in range for other things, so hard to say really without knowing a previous baseline result before you felt this way.

Have they tested you for EBV (ie. glandular fever)? I think they are focused too much on the BBing side of it and maybe missing something which is secondary to this?

mcl

ORIGINAL: 1MR

I know when I'm stressed or training too much or have a lot on my mind sleeping patterns go out the window and the little chap can't even raise a smile.

When I think about it, I might be in denial of the fact that I am stressed with work/career/money things a lot, I probably train (or certainly have done) a little too often and don't get enough, quality sleep. Can all these factors = my predicament?

I'm not the only one who doesn't enjoy their work and trains a lot, but I seem to be the only one with these issues!!?

Yes this is possible mate. Poor sleep doesn't help, stress can cause some of those symptoms you describe too.

However, I'd be inclined to have the following tests:
- Fasting lipids
- Fasting glucose
- Epstine-Barr Virus (glandular fever)

just to rule out any of those possibilities. However I suspect the first 2 tests you might have had originally with the liver function tests etc, can you recall?

mcl

Can you take a holl and do a 2 week chill from work and the gym ? See if it gets rid of some stress

Have they tested you for EBV (ie. glandular fever)? I think they are focused too much on the BBing side of it and maybe missing something which is secondary to this?

This is what worries me. Both were very prejudgemental about the way I looked. They kept using the word "bodybuidling" although I'd never used that word myself. I even said "can we stop referring to it as BBing, and simply 'going to the gym?'".

As stated above, the first incidence of these issues I remember was when I was 19, in the Army and I went back with a girl and embarrassed myself. I thought nothing of it and put it down to being tired/drunk. Happened a few times since, I always put it down to "not the right girl/drink/etc", added to that the constant feeling of tiredness/groggyness and so I started using viagra to maintain a "normal" sex life. I've stopped using it for the moment though to try and make sure I don't end up relying on it long-term. I have very little interest in sex, if I go without, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I started training and eating more seriously in November 2006, long after I noticed these issues.

Journal & Training Log

ORIGINAL: 1MR


The letter attached to the results (I'd requested a copy of them) was a return letter to my GP summing up by saying (quote) "There is no suggestion of any endocrine deficiency. I sometimes wonder, however, whether creatinine supplements and other body building supplements are laced with anabolic steroids. Also, I suspect his sexual performance would improve if he exercised less intensely. I am not arranging to review him again."

Did he genuinly mean creatinine or creatine?

Journal

200kg Deadlift

ORIGINAL: Ak_88

ORIGINAL: 1MR
The letter attached to the results (I'd requested a copy of them) was a return letter to my GP summing up by saying (quote) "There is no suggestion of any endocrine deficiency. I sometimes wonder, however, whether creatinine supplements and other body building supplements are laced with anabolic steroids. Also, I suspect his sexual performance would improve if he exercised less intensely. I am not arranging to review him again."

Did he genuinly mean creatinine or creatine?

I laughed too, he wrote creatinine, which he meant I don't know!!

However, I'd be inclined to have the following tests:
- Fasting lipids
- Fasting glucose

I've got the originals scanned in and linked in another thread on MT somewhere, I can't remember where! If wasn't a full LFT, but I did a fasting glucose and that was fine, 4.4 for TSH IIRC. Don't think lipids have been checked. Fasting glucose, basic liver function (creatine/AST) and potassium/sodium/etc levels. 3 seperate blood sample, then 1 further sample at the hospital.

Journal & Training Log

ORIGINAL: gonna_be_huge84
Can you take a holl and do a 2 week chill from work and the gym ? See if it gets rid of some stress

Hoping to get away in September. Never been on holiday before, just sent off for my passport and hoping for a week in the sun with my girl!

Journal & Training Log

ORIGINAL: 1MR

ORIGINAL: gonna_be_huge84
Can you take a holl and do a 2 week chill from work and the gym ? See if it gets rid of some stress

Hoping to get away in September. Never been on holiday before, just sent off for my passport and hoping for a week in the sun with my girl!

I think that will help, its surprising how much a break helps. Reason I cant wait to get away this week, but mines more down to the fact I havent got a job and its starting to frustrate me.

its a strange one fella, maybe you just need to have a chill? have you been doing extra work/hours that have contributed to you feeling like this maybe you have burnt yourself out?

lets go for a beer at the kingfisher that will help

My Journal

lets go for a beer at the kingfisher that will help

Ha, a local boy!

Journal & Training Log

ORIGINAL: Ak_88




Did he genuinly mean creatinine or creatine?

Different things are'nt they,is'nt one a by product of the other?

Sex drive can defo be affected by over-training and/or slight depression mate,I meah do you any idea yourself if your lethargy is symptom or cause?

take time out and reset to default.....creatanine is a waste product of protien metabolism....its usually high in people with intense excercise regimes.

October, trees are stripped bare of all they wear...what do i care.

i have all the same symptoms as you and have had for yearrs

forgot to mention - since reading niges article about vit D

and i started that, i have felt in a better mood and less tired and havent had a headache since,

still got the low sex drive sort of, but i put that down to nerves really, because its alright on my own if you know what i mean

and it fluctuates asto how horney i get too - think its just abit of stress

ORIGINAL: 1MR

lets go for a beer at the kingfisher that will help

Ha, a local boy!

near enough! in poulton now but not far to bob down for a pint

My Journal

Im not clued up on what your talking about mate. But i hope you get it sorted.

Have you Tryed to get in a sleeping pattern ? I make sure i Eat 30-60mins before bed Then get in bed watch tv for half hour. Go to sleep At the time of turning off the tv and trying to sleep im giving my slef 9 hours. ?

This helps me so much in all areas. 6 times in one night, at the weekend, in the sack!!!

My Journal