Hi Drew,

Ive read you 'Smart Shoulders' article over and over a few times now and this last week attempttd some Trap reverse rows, Trap Pull ups, OH squats and fig 8. Very impressed with the article by the way

Had a shoulder instability problem for 3 year+ now and currently its really making my life and training f'ing difficult.

My upper back/neck and lats are solid stiff constantly. Most of last week praobly following my 3 sets of weighted chins i felt like my i'd pulled my left lat and my shoulder was buring.

Been to phsyios before and even had some accupunture about 19years ago now.

I'm going to see about getting a sport massage to see if it frees my back up a bit.

Problem is i soend all day seated at a PC at work so its not ideal situation for my shoulder/neck/back.

I'm going to invest in a foam roller as ive read about them before - are they really worth trying?

The OH squats, when would be the besttime to try them? after weights or before? how much of each would you try?

Ive not tried the Serratus exercises yet - are they just as important?

One thing i did find when i tried oh squats tonight (2nd time ive tried them) was that i got huge pins and needles and numbness down my arm and to my fingers. You think its worth me booking in wih phsyio too?

Ive not been able to really get anywhere with chest or shoulder work for many years.

Thanks for your time

Rodge.

PS i understand the priciple of setting the shoulder with respect to lower traps firing correctly and scapular being in correct position but i'm still struggling greatly

Injured!!

Squat 170kgx1 105kgx25
Dead 200x1
Decline Bench 80x6

Foam rollers are a good investment, try and get one with a more solid core. You can also use a tennis ball on traps and upper back, works well.
Massages are also worth while too. I also spend a lot of time sitting at a desk in the weekday, so often my shoulders/neck/upper back become tight. Sometimes it requires a massage, other times a decent stretch. Its quite a hard area to stretch out as well.
At the moment, my right side seems a bit tighter and my shoulder feels a little tight. Tennis ball on the trigger points seems to ease it, so Im guessing it may just need a massage like before.

On a side note, chins seem to aggrevate my right side as well (which also has less ROM), but pulldowns dont. Something Im looking into, but I do find that shoulder prehab work has helped in a number of ways (ROM, strength...).

Sorry I cant help with anything else.

Regards
Lewis

ORIGINAL: fun meter

Foam rollers are a good investment, try and get one with a more solid core. You can also use a tennis ball on traps and upper back, works well.
Massages are also worth while too. I also spend a lot of time sitting at a desk in the weekday, so often my shoulders/neck/upper back become tight. Sometimes it requires a massage, other times a decent stretch. Its quite a hard area to stretch out as well.
At the moment, my right side seems a bit tighter and my shoulder feels a little tight. Tennis ball on the trigger points seems to ease it, so Im guessing it may just need a massage like before.

On a side note, chins seem to aggrevate my right side as well (which also has less ROM), but pulldowns dont. Something Im looking into, but I do find that shoulder prehab work has helped in a number of ways (ROM, strength...).

Sorry I cant help with anything else.

Hi mate.

Yeah i really struggle to stretch out the area too. I used to go to pilates and oten do some of thoses movements at home but doesnt really help. I must admit i dont stretch enough in gym either post weights but i do some between sets sometimes as things are that bad.

Strange thing is sometimes i can get through chins 3x10 with nearly 10kg added @ 90kg odd BW, yeas sometimes my sholder really gets affected rfom it though.

Yesterday I actually thought my shulder was going to pop out as while doing lateral raises as i got a shapr sudden pain in my left delt. I stopped the set straight away.

I'm just wondering if having over developed lats (compared to rest of my physique) is making the problem worse?

Ive slept really badly on my shoulder last night (in fact slept really badly anway) and now it is really bothering me today

cheers

Injured!!

Squat 170kgx1 105kgx25
Dead 200x1
Decline Bench 80x6

I really notice a difference stretching PWO, I feel much stiffer the next day If I dont. As for Chins, Im not doing them for a while again. Progressed well with Lat Pulldown and I have no problems with that. I'd drop them for a while to be honest, seeing as its aggrevating it.

I put a heat 'bean bag' on my upper back last night, seems to have eased it a bit. I got someone else to feel the area for me, apparently its hard, so as I thought, needs a massage or working loose (had this so many times now). The massage therapist I use said that the upper back is harder to stretch out, espcially rhomboids (which Is where it is tight).

A massage might help you, worth a try. Then maybe get some advice / check it. Strengthening the smaller muscles and improving flexability with the exercises in Drew's article should help.

I made this thread on another forum, there is some extra stretches and exercises to do. But I dont think I have damaged the muscle, otherwise I'd get problems with other exercises (I think its more to do with flexability myself).

http://forum.stronglifts.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10608&sid=891e47d2041c0bf3551b1dd26cdefd81&p=204038#p204038

Hope this helps mate.

Regards
Lewis

Thanks for that dude there some good stuff there.

As for Drew's shoulder article ive tried quite a lot of the stuff already just unsure about the form on OH squats and actually the best time to do all these things????

Does anyone know how far back your shoulders should be when holding the bar above your head and how wide is a snatch grip.

Should you sqeeeze sholder blades togther or just set the shoulders as such?

Cheers again for the link - have bookmarked it

Rodge

Injured!!

Squat 170kgx1 105kgx25
Dead 200x1
Decline Bench 80x6

No problem.

Stick with the exercises, and just split them across your workouts and do them at the end. Thats what I do, and it makes it less of an effort, as its one or two small exercises at the end.

With OH Squat (im no expert mind), I pull shoulder blades back and down, have a wide grip so my triceps are almost locked out, then snatch it. Then triceps are locked out, and the bar should be in line with centre of gravity, so its actually behind your head almost (you get a little bit of forward lean). Then Squat down etc... I just keep practicing it with empty barbell. A couple of sets with each workout when I can (before and after).
A technique tip, is to imagine your pulling your shoulder baldes apart. Helps to keep you more rigid in the lift.

Not that much help with form, but this link has some reading on OH Squat.

http://coachdbh.blogspot.com/2007/10/history-of-15-reps-bw-overhead-squat.html

Hope this helps

Regards
Lewis

Helolo mate,

answers in bold below.....

ORIGINAL: BencherRdg

Hi Drew,

Ive read you 'Smart Shoulders' article over and over a few times now and this last week attempttd some Trap reverse rows, Trap Pull ups, OH squats and fig 8. Very impressed with the article by the way

Cheers!
Had a shoulder instability problem for 3 year+ now and currently its really making my life and training f'ing difficult.

My upper back/neck and lats are solid stiff constantly. Most of last week praobly following my 3 sets of weighted chins i felt like my i'd pulled my left lat and my shoulder was buring.

Been to phsyios before and even had some accupunture about 19years ago now.

I'm going to see about getting a sport massage to see if it frees my back up a bit.

Problem is i soend all day seated at a PC at work so its not ideal situation for my shoulder/neck/back.

A common problem, people are sat in the wrong position all day with certain muscle firing overtime and not relaxing well. If you can get your worksapce checked by the health and safety people - work will have someone in charge here.

I'm going to invest in a foam roller as ive read about them before - are they really worth trying?

YES! Also other home made tools you can use include one tennis ball - roll up and down a wall with it between your back and the wall or two tennis balls tapped together.

It is worth geting the opinion for the reason for this level of stiffness and wether you;re OK to do this though as in some instances it might not be recommended straight off (that said you should be fine)

The OH squats, when would be the besttime to try them? after weights or before? how much of each would you try?

After your warm-up and before the intense training starts up, just do the empty bar until your OK with it

Ive not tried the Serratus exercises yet - are they just as important?

Yep. That's why they're in there!!!!

One thing i did find when i tried oh squats tonight (2nd time ive tried them) was that i got huge pins and needles and numbness down my arm and to my fingers. You think its worth me booking in wih phsyio too?

Hmmm, I would discontinue until you can rule out any problems with the nerves - maybe through the bicep area as well. Have a chat with them.

Ive not been able to really get anywhere with chest or shoulder work for many years.

Sounds very much like you need to step back, ensure proper function of the area and then get back on it training smart. It may well be a long boring process but I should know- I've done it . I don't know about you but I want to be strong NOW and in 20 years time. I want to be doing pull ups at 60. See the long road look for long term performance.

Thanks for your time
Rodge.

PS i understand the priciple of setting the shoulder with respect to lower traps firing correctly and scapular being in correct position but i'm still struggling greatly

Setting the shoulder is difficult - no one said ti was easy but it is worth it.

Drew Price BSc MASc CSCS
Registered Nutritionist &
Certified Strength & Conditioning Specialist
 

ORIGINAL: fun meter

No problem.

Stick with the exercises, and just split them across your workouts and do them at the end. Thats what I do, and it makes it less of an effort, as its one or two small exercises at the end.

With OH Squat (im no expert mind), I pull shoulder blades back and down, have a wide grip so my triceps are almost locked out, then snatch it. Then triceps are locked out, and the bar should be in line with centre of gravity, so its actually behind your head almost (you get a little bit of forward lean). Then Squat down etc... I just keep practicing it with empty barbell. A couple of sets with each workout when I can (before and after).
A technique tip, is to imagine your pulling your shoulder baldes apart. Helps to keep you more rigid in the lift.

Good tips there, one thing I would say is be careful how wide you're gripping especially if you have shoulder issues or have had on the past, flexibility allowing the narrower grip is easier on the shoulders.

Drew Price BSc MASc CSCS
Registered Nutritionist &
Certified Strength & Conditioning Specialist
 

Sorry if its a very broad question but what exactly do foam rollers do?

I think part of my shoulder 'hunch' is due to tight pecs/lats (as when i do some intense stretching the pump almost aids my posture) so would this be an instance where a foam roller could be used?

Ta

Journal

200kg Deadlift

ORIGINAL: BencherRdg
Yeah i really struggle to stretch out the area too. I used to go to pilates and oten do some of thoses movements at home but doesnt really help. I must admit i dont stretch enough in gym either post weights but i do some between sets sometimes as things are that bad.

Strange thing is sometimes i can get through chins 3x10 with nearly 10kg added @ 90kg odd BW, yeas sometimes my sholder really gets affected rfom it though.

Yesterday I actually thought my shulder was going to pop out as while doing lateral raises as i got a shapr sudden pain in my left delt. I stopped the set straight away.

I'm just wondering if having over developed lats (compared to rest of my physique) is making the problem worse?

Ive slept really badly on my shoulder last night (in fact slept really badly anway) and now it is really bothering me today

cheers

Stretching (static) is just one part of what you should be doing. soft tissue work like the foam roller and also trigger point release will also help develop healthy range of motion. Other things to look at are range of motion drills and dynamic strethching as well




Increased range of motion (and dynamic stretching) demands good muscular control and it doesn't sound like the is your forte at the moment - by this I mean your muscles may be a bit hit and miss firing pattern wise as some are overstimulated and some possibly switched off. Lat raises are often a good test of this.

As long as it is pain free continue with the things on the article and this may help, however again I'd like you to step back, get some help from a good physio (pref sports) and then start back up with smart training.

Long term pre hab is also going to have to be a significant part of your training but this will only serve to make you stonger and more injury resistant so it's all good.

Drew Price BSc MASc CSCS
Registered Nutritionist &
Certified Strength & Conditioning Specialist
 

Thanks again Drew yeah i can believe its a long boring process When i had to rehab my shoulder (other shoulder incidently) following dislocation all wanted to do was give up I thought i'd never train prperly again.

I suppose you cant have your cake ANd eat it!

I'll be phoning the physio this week.

Just one thing:-

It is worth geting the opinion for the reason for this level of stiffness and wether you;re OK to do this though as in some instances it might not be recommended straight off (that said you should be fine)

^ Is this refering to me being able to do the exercises mentioned in your article?

Injured!!

Squat 170kgx1 105kgx25
Dead 200x1
Decline Bench 80x6

ORIGINAL: BencherRdg

Thanks again Drew yeah i can believe its a long boring process When i had to rehab my shoulder (other shoulder incidently) following dislocation all wanted to do was give up I thought i'd never train prperly again.

I suppose you cant have your cake ANd eat it!

I'll be phoning the physio this week.

Just one thing:-

It is worth geting the opinion for the reason for this level of stiffness and wether you;re OK to do this though as in some instances it might not be recommended straight off (that said you should be fine)

^ Is this refering to me being able to do the exercises mentioned in your article?

Ive found the length of the process to be the worst part of attempting to sort out my shoulder issues. My shoulder itself is ok now, but my thoratic mobility is so bad that I cant OH squat a broomstick without it migrating forward to almost at my eye level!

Just because the pain stops, dont stop doing the exercises/foam rolling etc.

42.5kg to go.

ORIGINAL: Dave284

ORIGINAL: BencherRdg

Thanks again Drew yeah i can believe its a long boring process When i had to rehab my shoulder (other shoulder incidently) following dislocation all wanted to do was give up I thought i'd never train prperly again.

I suppose you cant have your cake ANd eat it!

I'll be phoning the physio this week.

Just one thing:-

It is worth geting the opinion for the reason for this level of stiffness and wether you;re OK to do this though as in some instances it might not be recommended straight off (that said you should be fine)

^ Is this refering to me being able to do the exercises mentioned in your article?

Ive found the length of the process to be the worst part of attempting to sort out my shoulder issues. My shoulder itself is ok now, but my thoratic mobility is so bad that I cant OH squat a broomstick without it migrating forward to almost at my eye level!

Just because the pain stops, dont stop doing the exercises/foam rolling etc.

Cheers for that mate I'm only using an empty oly bar at present only been doing OH squats just over a week now

Injured!!

Squat 170kgx1 105kgx25
Dead 200x1
Decline Bench 80x6

Does anyone have a link to the shoulder artical. I can't find it

MY JOURNAL

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-smart-shoulders.aspx

Injured!!

Squat 170kgx1 105kgx25
Dead 200x1
Decline Bench 80x6

Thanks BencherRdg

MY JOURNAL