I was wondering if i could grab some help with my diet and training?

I've been a "casually" training for about a year, this was basically me going to the gym 2 or 3 times a week with no routine in my head and trying to bench/squat and dead as much as i could. So basically it looked like this;

Monday
Bench 8x8
Dips 8x8

Wednesday
Squat 10x10

Friday
Deadlift 8x8
Chins 8x8

During this time i have to say my diet was not as good as ones posted on MT and its not even worth posting it up.

Yesterday i had a bash at having a "Proper" diet and it basically went like this...

meal1
oats (200g)

meal 2
tuna (75g) sandwich (2 slices)

meal3
tuna (75g) sandwich (2 slices)

meal4
peanutbutter (50g) sandwich (2 slices)

meal5
rice (100g) and mince beef (100g)

meal 6
rice (100g) and mince beef (100g)

I know its not great but i'm trying to slowly adapt.

My main goal is to gain strength - how would i go about this?

Thanks.

wats ur hieght and wieght?, what meals do u train between?

I'm 6 foot and i weight around 85kgs.

I train between meal 4 and 5

oh and my bf is 20%

Monday
Bench 8x8
Dips 8x8

Wednesday
Squat 10x10

Friday
Deadlift 8x8
Chins 8x8

That's too many sets, I think. 10 sets of 10 reps of anything would be possibly harmful. I think it's an accident in the making for a beginner. You should go for something like 3x10, 4x8, or 5x5. I also think having one workout session dedicated to Squats, and no other exercise that day, to be a waste of a day.

I think you should start out in moderation, but with a decent list of compound exercises that will work more body parts, you are on the right track. I also recommend a consolidation of sorts, as well.

Consider this as a routine:

*** WEEK A ***

Monday
Squat 4x8
Bench 4x8
Dips 4x8

Wednesday
Deadlift 4x8
Overhead Press 4x8
Chins 4x8

Friday
Squat 4x8
Bench 4x8
Dips 4x8

*** WEEK B ***

Monday
Deadlift 4x8
Overhead Press 4x8
Chins 4x8

Wednesday
Squat 4x8
Bench 4x8
Dips 4x8

Friday
Deadlift 4x8
Overhead Press 4x8
Chins 4x8

I added the Overhead Press as a 6th exercise, and put more exercises on each day. You should also consider a little bit of aerobic exercise in between workouts. For example, on days you don't work out, walk and/or jog a half hour, or swim, cycle, or whatever.

I also think you should get some abwork in there, somehow. I think that's the only muscle group really neglected in such a workout. :)

Why not just shoot for a big basic simple routine to get you started off. For example why not:

Workout A -
squats - 3x5
benches - 3x5
deadlifts - 1x5
dips - 2x8

Workout B
squats - 3x5
standing press - 3x5
rows 3x5
chins/pullups - 2x8

You train on 3 nonconsecutive days per week.

So week 1 might look like:
Monday - Workout A
Wednesday - Workout B
Friday - Workout A

Week 2:
Monday - Workout B
Wednesday - Workout A
Friday - Workout B

A good link to that routine can be found here and provides a GREAT base to start from:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224

Another tried and tested routine is the 5X5. Split as a Pull, Push, Legs+Abs you could opt for :

Monday: PULL

Deadlift- 5 X 5
Barbell Row-5 X 5
Chins/Pullups-5 X 5 (weighted once your able to)

Wednesday: PUSH

Bench Press-5 X 5
Standing Military Press (barbell)-5 X 5
Dips- 5 X 5 (Weighted once your able to)

Friday: LEGS+ABS

Squats-5 X 5
SLDL- 5 X 5

Weighted Crunches 2 X 8
Hanging Leg Raises-2 X 8
NOTE: you may not even need ab movements as they will get hit a plenty by deadlifts, squats, military press etc in order to stabilise your body as you execute the lift.

Just my take on on whats required for a beginner. Best of luck mate.

Edit; In reply to Ultron

I could kiss your feet! (Not that i would)

That looks like a nice little routine there. One of the reasons why i like it is because i'm able to hit a muscle group more times a week than before. And your sure 4x8 is enough per exercise? Before i didnt feel like i got enough from something similar - or maybe i didnt have enough weight?

Cheers for the great reply.

Edit; Reply to mortimer coming soon

Mortimer,

I like the look of the first routine but i'm not sure if i will get enough out of it because of the low reps. I perfer to hammer myself and then stuff my face with food

Thanks for the reply.

ORIGINAL: Animal87

Mortimer,

I like the look of the first routine but i'm not sure if i will get enough out of it because of the low reps. I perfer to hammer myself and then stuff my face with food

Thanks for the reply.

Trust me if your lifting heavy and with good form, keeping your attitude on progressing in weight/poundages, that routine will more than suffice. More is not always better.

What Mortimer suggests is good, too. His is geared a little bit more towards greater muscle strength, and mine is designed a little more for greater muscle size (if you go with 4x8 instead of 5x5) so just do a set/rep range that is good for you. You'll get stronger and have bigger muscles with both of our recommendations to you. :)

ORIGINAL: Animal87

That looks like a nice little routine there. One of the reasons why i like it is because i'm able to hit a muscle group more times a week than before. And your sure 4x8 is enough per exercise? Before i didnt feel like i got enough from something similar - or maybe i didnt have enough weight?

One more thing, while I can think of it. If you can do 10 sets of anything, the weights are too light. The goal is to have the rep range be at about where you can normally do the set until muscle failure.

For example if you can do a 10 reps and can no longer maintain good form for the 11th rep, then that is good. That might be 80% of your "One Rep Max" in that case.

And the second time you attempt to do 10 reps with that same amount of weight, you might only be able to do 9 reps before form suffers.

And the third time you might be able to do 7 or 8. At that point - stop. Rest up and go to another exercise, and repeat the process there.

That's an example using 3 sets of 10. The process is similar for 4 sets of 8, or 5 sets of 5. That last set you will just not be able to do as many reps as the first time.

So many choices.. Ok because my main aim is strength then obviously mortimer's routine should be in my advantage? I do have a few questions:

Should all reps be to failure - obviously i'll be using heavy weight? and how would i measure progress? Would i up the weight slightly every week? Would i be using slow, concentrated form rather than banging them out?


Workout A -
squats - 3x5 Is this 3 sets of 5 reps?
benches - 3x5
deadlifts - 1x5
dips - 2x8

Workout B
squats - 3x5
standing press - 3x5
rows 3x5
chins/pullups - 2x8

Thanks guys.

ORIGINAL: Ultron

ORIGINAL: Animal87

That looks like a nice little routine there. One of the reasons why i like it is because i'm able to hit a muscle group more times a week than before. And your sure 4x8 is enough per exercise? Before i didnt feel like i got enough from something similar - or maybe i didnt have enough weight?

One more thing, while I can think of it. If you can do 10 sets of anything, the weights are too light. The goal is to have the rep range be at about where you can normally do the set until muscle failure.

For example if you can do a 10 reps and can no longer maintain good form for the 11th rep, then that is good. That might be 80% of your "One Rep Max" in that case.

And the second time you attempt to do 10 reps with that same amount of weight, you might only be able to do 9 reps before form suffers.

And the third time you might be able to do 7 or 8. At that point - stop. Rest up and go to another exercise, and repeat the process there.

That's an example using 3 sets of 10. The process is similar for 4 sets of 8, or 5 sets of 5. That last set you will just not be able to do as many reps as the first time.

So if i was doing 3x8 even if i couldnt finish the last few reps on the last set thats still all ok? Sorry if i'm coming across like an idiot - really didnt know there was so much involved

One other thing, when you say "repeat the process there" would i come back to the exercise and finish the set off or wait untill the next session as i've burned out? EDIT; i may have miss read, do you mean repeat the process on the next exercise I.E if i burn out thats all ok.

So many choices.. Ok because my main aim is strength then obviously mortimer's routine should be in my advantage?

Mortimer's routine will build slightly better strength (5x5) than what I suggest (4x8) but you will get strong doing both.

Should all reps be to failure - obviously i'll be using heavy weight?

I think you should use weight that you can do, for example, 8 times, but by the 8th time, your muscles will have worked hard enough to where you can't do the 9th rep in good form. You're basically starting to achieve muscle failure.

After a minute or two rest, when you attempt the second set, you would probably be unable to do all 8 reps in good form. The first rep that gives you problems, to where you cannot use good form, you should finish it, and then stop and rest.

and how would i measure progress?

You measure progress through workout logs. Over time you'll be able to lift more weight. most likely when you are able to do all 4 sets of 8, or all 5 sets of 5, then you should consider increasing the weight by a small amount, to where you are back at the skirts of muscle failure on the last rep of the first set.

Trust me, you'll be playing things by ear until you get it down. Once you find that good set/rep/weight range, it'll be easier for you to track your progress.

Would i up the weight slightly every week?

Not neccessarily, but you would be upping the weight as your body gains strength, and allows you to do so.

Would i be using slow, concentrated form rather than banging them out?

The goal, I think, should be controlled movement at every rep. The first rep of each set where you can no longer use good control, should be the last rep you do. You might go into explosive training for some exercises. But I personally think you should focus on form and safe movements before you aim for explosiveness.

squats - 3x5 Is this 3 sets of 5 reps?

Yes.

So if i was doing 3x8 even if i couldnt finish the last few reps on the last set thats still all ok?

Well the last set, once you start being unable to use good form, then stop. Many strength trainers cheat on the last rep they are unable to use good form with, but only the advanced do that for additional sets, using a partner to help out. But that's not something a beginner should do. Just do what you can with good form. Don't use bad form at any time, if you can help it.

One other thing, when you say "repeat the process there" would i come back to the exercise and finish the set off or wait untill the next session as i've burned out? EDIT; i may have miss read, do you mean repeat the process on the next exercise I.E if i burn out thats all ok.

I mean, repeat the process with a different exercise. Once you are done doing the number of sets for an exercise, you do no more of that exercise in that workout. The next workout that has you doing that exercise, is when you do that again.

What body type are you? If your an ectomorph you should concentrate on intensity, if your an endomorph it should be volume.

17
6ft2
Body fat is out of the window now until I cut once again
Now on a bulk
Tryin to get up to 235lbs or there abouts

edit - this post helped me out alot

ORIGINAL: Irons

What body type are you? If your an ectomorph you should concentrate on intensity, if your an endomorph it should be volume.

why???

I guess the logic is to help burn more calories for someone who is overweight, but I think the same routine should be done, regardless of whether or not the person is an ecto, meso or endomorph. Someone who is overweight could do more aerobic work on the off-days, for example, and generally reduce caloric intake.

ORIGINAL: Irons

What body type are you? If your an ectomorph you should concentrate on intensity, if your an endomorph it should be volume.

I personally dont think the body type matters. But i'm normal - if that makes any sense (Not over or under weight)

Ultron, i cant thank you enough you've been a massive help, all i need to do now is start up a journal. Thanks x1000

Oh and how stupid of me. Mortimer i also have to thank you - cant wait to start the routine.

Yeah Mortimer has given some solid advice as well.

Here are some more pointers:

1) Warm up at least 5 minutes before each session, and cool down at least 5 minutes afterwards. This is often overlooked, as I have seen a lot of people stretch for a minute and then start lifting. Spend the extra time taking care of yourself before you start lifting, and after you do so.

2) Stretch the muscles you worked after each set. This helps the fascia, as well as the tendons, ligaments and muscles effected. This also helps to prevent you from being musclebound and stiff.

3) Ease into your routine, if you are an absolute beginner. For the first couple weeks to a month you may use well below your max weight, just to get the form right. I'm still learning form and I've only been training roughly a month.

4) Don't complicate things too early. You may seriously only do the same routine for a few months. Don't fret over it. You're not going to plateau for a long time, so just stay consistant so that you make solid gains.

A lot of people, including myself the first time I tried weight training when I was younger, switch routines too often, even switching out exercises, or don't do enough of the basic, solid, compound exercises that are the backbone of a good beginners routine. Learn from our mistakes. Just stick to a simple routine that you can consistantly do.

I literally just got tired of working out in my early 20's because I had no direction. I was aimless, did too many isolations, didn't have consistant set and rep ranges, and I couldn't stay motivated. I let myself get wigged out by the sheer variety of exercises I could do, and I wasted a dozen years of my life doing absolutely nothing. And I became really out of shape. I am still out of shape now, really just starting on a basic routine, so that's what I recommend to you. Just stay with something that is easy to stay with. When you start reaching an intermediate status you'll end up adding some isolations, changing your sets and reps, and taking things to the next level.

Let us know how it goes for you. :)