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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 13 2008 17:34:31
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firest0rm
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quote:
ORIGINAL: James
Everyone who has posted above please answer these:
1) Why do people feel this is a good post?
2) Before reading this, what was your thoughts of glutamine and why?
3) How do you know what has been posted is factual?
1) It provides grounds for a discussion and debate, which is what a forum is typically for
2) I've ran it at varying doses, up to 120grams a day, and 'noticed" very little. Recovery seemed to be the same
3) I don't. I don't pay much attention to scientific evidence, partly because it changes quite often, and mostly because I prefer real world experience
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 13 2008 17:36:55
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firest0rm
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With regards to this:
quote:
90% of the glutamine you take orally never even makes it to your muscles. Glutamine supplementation decreases it's own synthesis and mostly turns itself into glucose.
There is approximately 18grams of glutamine per 100grams of WPC80. Does this comment mean that 90% of those 18grams will become glucose?
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 13 2008 17:54:03
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kitty
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Has anyone noticed the original post is over 2 years old?
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 13 2008 18:18:13
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Boditronics Ltd
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kitty
Has anyone noticed the original post is over 2 years old?
Yes I noticed this hence my lack of bothering to reply so far . god knows how it was dredged up as there was not original replies I guessed no one gave it house room the first time ..
my view is the post is flawed most of the researched has nothing to do with Body building and the op's credentials are unconfirmed and also the fact that literally thousands of competing bodybuilders would not prepare for a comp without Glutamine tells me that even if the science back it anecdotal evidence for Glutamine is strong .. I know our athletes will not stop taking alot of it anytime soon nor will I
Ideally the OP would be around to answer some questions but I think he is probably long gone by now
Wurz
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 13 2008 20:38:45
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dianabolik
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agree with firestorm.
too many people have had no results with Glutamine.
I talked to Layne Norton not long ago and he has degrees etc on everything related to with BBing and he said Glutamine is a complete waste of time, and is useless to BBEr's, it can be used for people who have certain deficincies (not BB related).
Not saying that Layne is 100% factually correct, but I do know he researched the subjct of Glutamine thoroughly.
< Message edited by dianabolik -- Apr. 13 2008 20:40:20 >
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 14 2008 22:18:59
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James
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quote:
ORIGINAL: firest0rm
1) It provides grounds for a discussion and debate, which is what a forum is typically for
2) I've ran it at varying doses, up to 120grams a day, and 'noticed" very little. Recovery seemed to be the same
3) I don't. I don't pay much attention to scientific evidence, partly because it changes quite often, and mostly because I prefer real world experience
1 and 2 fair replies
3 is silly to think like that. So called 'real world experience' is so filled with bias it simply cannot be 'real world'. Just coz Big Mick down the gym says it's good means rubbish
Also glutamine is one of those things which is hard to quantify any benefit - so you'll never get your quantifiable real world experience - whereas something like beta-alanine you can as it's effects are apparent after one workout
However my point for asking these 3 questions was not referring to whether the OP was good or bad, but more that I find it worrying that people jumped on it as a 'good post' when this is really only because it sounded good.
I will be testing MT within the next few weeks 
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 14 2008 22:34:58
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EL GAUCHO
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Ok...lets say this stuff is good.....when is the best time to take it for maximum benefit?
Some say first thing in the morning, some say pre-workout, some post work-out, then maybe pre-sleeping?
I often take a Whey shake post-workout, so that would be out the question right?
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 14 2008 22:37:28
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firest0rm
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My point with number 3 is, and I'll use chromium as an example, that it was proven as a weight loss aid in something like the 80s, then proven it was toxic and harmful in the 90s, and now it is yet again proven to be useful. I'm not 100% sure on the dates, it was an article I read a while back. Scientific evidence backed up whichever argument they wanted, and this can be the case with a lot of supplements around. There is also scientific data on CEE isn't there? Claiming it works better than mono, yet real world recommendations would be that mono is better. It's nothing major but I prefer going off the general concensus of what people prefer. Oh and I never listen to anybody down the gym, I only go off forums where somebodies opinion can be scrutinized and criticized.
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 15 2008 14:34:08
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kitty
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firestorm, many studies are funded by companies who manage to produce the answer they want us to hear
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 15 2008 15:19:46
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James
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quote:
ORIGINAL: firest0rm
My point with number 3 is, and I'll use chromium as an example, that it was proven as a weight loss aid in something like the 80s,
No it wasn't. The studies which indicated a possible benefit, were, at best weak. It was far, far, far from 'proven' - what is?
quote:
then proven it was toxic and harmful in the 90s,
Not the picolate form wasn't. Another form was indicated to be, not 'proven'.
quote:
and now it is yet again proven to be useful.
News to me - I have read some marketing, but no proof.
(By the way - little is 'proven')
quote:
I'm not 100% sure on the dates, it was an article I read a while back.
You have fallen for the trap (which surpises me, and I mean that as a compliment, coz you're clearly a very bright guy) - you have fallen for the very point I am making in this topic = DO NOT BELIEVE ARTICLES! Articles are not 'proof', they are not even evidence. Just coz he references a scientific paper does not mean that he has really referred to that paper, and also does not mean that the paper is relevant to the point. And then the scientific paper has it's limitations, depending on the study design
quote:
Scientific evidence backed up whichever argument they wanted,
This is my point - are they really using the scientific evidence to back up their arguament?
quote:
and this can be the case with a lot of supplements around.
Absolutely - now you're with me! This is the case for everything in nutrition - unless the study is peer reviewed
quote:
There is also scientific data on CEE isn't there? Claiming it works better than mono, yet real world recommendations would be that mono is better. It's nothing major but I prefer going off the general concensus of what people prefer. Oh and I never listen to anybody down the gym, I only go off forums where somebodies opinion can be scrutinized and criticized.
Yes - you're with me now! You read my article on this very point - I think you'll like it?
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-creatine-ethyl-ester.aspx
So never shun scientific evidence. But always read articles with a very open mind (and yes that includes my articles too), but take your 'real world experiences' with an even larger open mind.
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 15 2008 15:20:08
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James
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kitty
firestorm, many studies are funded by companies who manage to produce the answer they want us to hear
But many are not
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 15 2008 15:36:10
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FrankenJim
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I Been unsing it for 3 weeks ( 3 weeks Mainly Cardio , Into 4th Week Bulking )
I Got to Say i havent really noticed any diff. Little bit achey were i havent lifted in so long but thats expected, When i was doing heaps of cardio i didnt have muscle cramps or anything b4 using the Glutinamine and after. My overall exp is that i havent Felt or Seen Results and wont be using it again. Will Stick To Tried and tested Sups.
Just my 2cents
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 15 2008 15:51:13
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dianabolik
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James, sorry to go a 'little' off topic but talking about real world results, scientific eveidence, Big Micks gym down the road  etc
Would you say, as for AAS....would the ANABOLIC REVIEW be the best for open minded, truthful opinions and trusted feedback....I've heard alot about it.
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 15 2008 18:00:38
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firest0rm
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lol fair enough James, point taken. It is very difficult to for someone like me that has a background in English, and not Science, to be able to distinguish between credible evidence and bumkus. Maybe in a similar fashion to a 'source check' we should have a scientific evidence check huh? 
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 16 2008 9:08:06
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EL GAUCHO
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Ok...lets say this stuff is good.....when is the best time to take it for maximum benefit?
Some say first thing in the morning, some say pre-workout, some post work-out, then maybe pre-sleeping?
I often take a Whey shake post-workout, so that would be out the question right?
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 17 2008 12:52:03
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James
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dianabolik
James, sorry to go a 'little' off topic but talking about real world results, scientific eveidence, Big Micks gym down the road etc
Would you say, as for AAS....would the ANABOLIC REVIEW be the best for open minded, truthful opinions and trusted feedback....I've heard alot about it.
What's 'Anabolic Review' ?
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 17 2008 12:53:47
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James
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quote:
ORIGINAL: firest0rm
lol fair enough James, point taken. It is very difficult to for someone like me that has a background in English, and not Science, to be able to distinguish between credible evidence and bumkus. Maybe in a similar fashion to a 'source check' we should have a scientific evidence check huh?
Sure, and you're the majority. The public shouldn't be expected to have to review their own science, and most arn't as bright and resourceful as you. All I'm saying is don't put Big Mick down the gym ahead of science.
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 17 2008 12:54:31
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James
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EL GAUCHO
Ok...lets say this stuff is good.....when is the best time to take it for maximum benefit?
Some say first thing in the morning, some say pre-workout, some post work-out, then maybe pre-sleeping?
I often take a Whey shake post-workout, so that would be out the question right?
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/top_supplements2.aspx
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 17 2008 13:04:26
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iaink
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Never personally rated glutamine as a supp anyway. Some good refferences, however sound bites from abstratcs etc etc do not make for conculsive assumptions.
quote:
Studies involving oral ingestion of stable isotope-labelled glutamine indicate that 50-70% of enterally administered glutamine is taken up during first pass by splanchnic organs (gut and liver). (G14).
This is true for most amino acids ingested. The small intesitines and liver metabolise a large % of amnio acids ingested. I do know of research in animals that has demonstrated significantly evelated blood glutamine concentrations after an oral dose in horses. Dosn't mean much mind you but there you go.
I belive the bottom line is this; if you are already ingesting large quantaties of protein then there will be little need to ingest any single amnio acid as an addition to your diet.
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