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GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Oct. 8 2005 2:40:14
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Big-r
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GLUTAMINE DOES NOTHING FOR BB-ING PURPOSES
Glutamine production in muscle protein is 50% lower than assumed
-Results of tracer studies indicate that skeletal muscle contributes to approximately 70% of overall glutamine production in healthy adults; the contribution of de novo synthesis being estimated at approximately 60%. Direct and specific measurements of glutamine in intact muscle protein are 50% lower than assumed previously (G1).
Most amino acids are precursors for alanine and glutamine synthesis in skeletal muscle
-Cysteine, leucine, valine, methionine, isoleucine, tyrosine, lysine, and phenylalanine increase the rate of glutamine synthesis. The progressive decline in alanine and glutamine synthesis noted on prolonged incubation is prevented by the addition of amino acids to the incubation medium (G2)
90% of the glutamine you take orally never even makes it to your muscles. Glutamine supplementation decreases it's own synthesis and mostly turns itself into glucose.
-Systemic glutamine administration is ineffective in preventing muscle depletion, due to a relative inability of skeletal muscle to seize glutamine from the bloodstream. Transport from blood accounts for only 25% of the intramuscular glutamine pool turnover. In contrast, the intracellular pools of most essential amino acids, such as phenylalanine or leucine, derived largely from the extracellular space. Studies involving oral ingestion of stable isotope-labelled glutamine indicate that 50-70% of enterally administered glutamine is taken up during first pass by splanchnic organs (gut and liver). (G14).
-Glutamine orally is successful in elevating plasma glutamine at the peak concentration by 46%, which suggests that a substantial proportion of the oral load escaped utilization by the gut mucosal cells and uptake by the liver and kidneys. If the entire glutamine dose had been distributed within the blood (8% body wt) and extracellular fluid (20% lean body mass) compartments, then a 3-mM rise in blood glutamine concentration might have been expected, whereas plasma glutamine concentration was only observed to rise by 0.3 mM. This might suggest that only 10% of the oral dose reached the extracellular fluid compartments (G15).
-Infusion of glutamine increases plasma glutamine concentration and turnover only threefold, formation of glucose from glutamine increased sevenfold. Furthermore, glutamine infusion decreased its own de novo synthesis (4.55 +/- 0.22 vs. 2.81 +/- 0.62 micromol x kg(-1) x min(-1);P < 0.02) (G16).
Glutamine does not prevent exercise-induced immune impairment. Carbs do. And glutamine does not influence hormonal levels
-Consuming 30-60 g carbohydrate x h(-1) during sustained intensive exercise attenuates rises in stress hormones such as cortisol and appears to limit the degree of exercise-induced immune depression. Convincing evidence that so-called 'immune-boosting' supplements, including high doses of antioxidant vitamins, glutamine, zinc, probiotics and Echinacea, prevent exercise-induced immune impairment is currently lacking (G31).
-Intracellular glutamine concentration may not be compromised when plasma levels are decreased postexercise. In addition, a number of recent intervention studies with glutamine feeding demonstrate that, although the plasma concentration of glutamine is kept constant during and after acute, strenuous exercise, glutamine supplementation does not abolish the postexercise decrease in in vitro cellular immunity, including low lymphocyte number, impaired lymphocyte proliferation, impaired natural killer and lymphokine-activated killer cell activity, as well as low production rate and concentration of salivary IgA (G32).
-Glutamine supplementation abolished the postexercise decline in plasma glutamine concentration but had no effect on lymphocyte trafficking, NK and lymphokine-activated killer cell activities, T cell proliferation, catecholamines, growth hormone, insulin, or glucose (G33).
-Nutritional supplementation with glutamine abolishes the exercise-induced decline in plasma glutamine, but does not influence post-exercise immune impairment. However, carbohydrate loading diminishes most exercise effects of cytokines, lymphocyte and neutrophils (G34).
Glutamine does not increase protein synthesis
-Intravenous infusion of amino acids increases the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis, but addition of glutamine to the amino acid mixture does not further stimulate muscle protein synthesis rate in healthy young men and women (G6).
-Short intravenous infusion of glutamine does not acutely stimulate duodenal protein synthesis in well-nourished, growing dogs (G8).
Glutamine prevents protein degradation but not more effectively than carbs
-0,9 g/kg glutamine during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation compared to 0,9 g/kg maltodextrin (G9).
-Glutamine preserves protein synthesis in Caco-2 cells submitted to "luminal fasting", but higher glutamine doses did not enhance protein synthesis beyond control fed values. And glucose supplementation restored FSR as effi-ciently as glutamine (G10).
Carbhohydrate or BCAA supplementation prevents decrease in glutamine levels during exercise
-Carbohydrate supplementation affects positively the immune response of cyclists by avoiding or minimizing changes in plasma glutamine concentration (G11).
-Following an exercise bout, a decrease in plasma glutamine concentration can be observed, which is completely abolished by BCAA supplementation (G12).
-BCAA supplementation during a triathlon completely prevents the decrease in plasma glutamine (G13).
-7 distance runners reduced muscle gycogen. A high carb meal (80% carbs) before 60 min. exercise increases plasma glutamine. A 14 h fast before exercise does not change plasma glutamine. Plasma BCAA did not change under either dietary condition (G17).
Fasting decreases glutamine transport. And supplementation during fasting does not prevent muscle loss
-During fasting, skeletal muscle exports increased amounts of glutamine (Gln) while increasing the production of this amino acid by glutamine synthetase (GS) in order to maintain the intramuscular Gln pool (G41).
-Background: One of the major activities of the enterocyte is amino acid transport, which is important not only for the organism but also for the integrity of the mucosa. Bowel rest during the postoperative period is marked by decreased calorie and protein intake with atrophy of the brush border mucosa.
Fasting for 72 hours decreases glutamine and arginine transport. Alanine MeAIB, and leucine transport were maintained (G42).
-0.35 g/kg glutamine/day does not prevent loss of lean muscle in athletes during a 12-day weight reduction program (G43).
Glutamine does not enhance performance
-6 resistance-trained men performed weightlifting exercises after ingesting 0.3 g/kg glutamine. This did not enhance performance (G22).
REFERENCES
(G1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10500016&query_hl=1
(G2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1249059&query_hl=1
(G6) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11145116&query_hl=1
(G7) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12006808&query_hl=1
(G8) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10198312&query_hl=1
(G9) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11822473&dopt=Abstract
(G10) http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/285/1/G128
(G11) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12381341&query_hl=1
(G12) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11985939&query_hl=1
(G13) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10912884&query_hl=1
(G14)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16084750&query_hl=5
Complete studie: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=7234016#post7234016
(G15)http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/86/6/1770
(G16)http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/272/3/E437
(G17)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9202952&query_hl=1
(G22)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11834123&dopt=Abstract
(G31)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14971437&query_hl=1
(G32)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12183472&query_hl=1
(G33)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11546663&query_hl=1
(G34)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10604210&query_hl=1
(G41)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14613760&query_hl=1
(G42)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7940166&query_hl=1
(G43)http://www.jssm.org/vol2/n4/7/v2n4-7pdf.pdf
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 10 2008 22:38:48
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EL GAUCHO
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No way....I always had my doubts about Glut....does this apply to Glutamine in food too? Like cottage cheese?
Any thoughts out there?
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 10 2008 23:10:04
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Daari
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nice post
Is it your own 'work'?
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 10 2008 23:19:14
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Mobster
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Not entirely convinced as some of the points due not relate to why bodybuilders use it but did note the following comments on BCAA's with interest:
-Carbohydrate supplementation affects positively the immune response of cyclists by avoiding or minimizing changes in plasma glutamine concentration (G11).
-Following an exercise bout, a decrease in plasma glutamine concentration can be observed, which is completely abolished by BCAA supplementation (G12).
-BCAA supplementation during a triathlon completely prevents the decrease in plasma glutamine (G13).
-7 distance runners reduced muscle gycogen. A high carb meal (80% carbs) before 60 min. exercise increases plasma glutamine. A 14 h fast before exercise does not change plasma glutamine. Plasma BCAA did not change under either dietary condition (G17).
Note not one bodybuilder type subject. Once again if you run, swim or cycle BCAA might be useful but for bigger, stronger muscles...?
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 11 2008 4:14:33
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BUFF STUFF
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i hope this aint true, I just ordered a kilo
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 11 2008 8:11:00
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Andy26
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very interesting read Big r.
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 11 2008 8:19:23
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EL GAUCHO
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Luckily this is one thing we can try on ourselves and see if it really does make a difference.
With no know side effects, Glutamine can be taken (exclusively) for 6-8 weeks to see if a benefit exists.
I'm currently on week 3, without anything else, and not exactly impressed with the "results" so far.
Improved recovery and strength, along with all the other supposed benefits are not being felt yet. It's the same as always.
Will give it another 3 weeks, or till my tub runs out.
< Message edited by EL GAUCHO -- Apr. 11 2008 8:44:47 >
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 11 2008 9:34:09
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Mobster
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I'll say it again. If you use a decent amount of whey protein based protein supplements, which are already high in Glutamic acid, I am of the opinion you will not notice any great real world results. If, however, you are on a restricted (competition for example) diet you might. It MAY also be useful as part of a PWO drink ONLY because it will work with the other items rather than show a useful return on it's own.
Pretty much every single time the subject has been debated at length both camps - for and against - have been 50-50. Very much a 'on the fence' type product.
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 11 2008 11:49:59
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anabolicjay
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does glutamine increase a mucles ability to store glycogen?
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 11 2008 16:35:35
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James
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Everyone who has posted above please answer these:
1) Why do people feel this is a good post?
2) Before reading this, what was your thoughts of glutamine and why?
3) How do you know what has been posted is factual?
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 11 2008 16:56:32
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cjohn
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quote:
ORIGINAL: James
Everyone who has posted above please answer these:
1) Why do people feel this is a good post?
2) Before reading this, what was your thoughts of glutamine and why?
3) How do you know what has been posted is factual?
Good point. Some guy made a bold claim, listed a LOT of information (too much to get your head around or refute without a lot of effort), put a lot of "science" talk into it to make it persuasive, resulting in most people assuming he knows what he's talking about it and accepting the initial claim without thinking it through themselves. Me too - I am fairly science-literate, but I can't be bothered to go through the list of findings and follow them up...
Chris
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 11 2008 17:13:57
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Mobster
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quote:
ORIGINAL: James
Everyone who has posted above please answer these:
1) Why do people feel this is a good post?
2) Before reading this, what was your thoughts of glutamine and why?
3) How do you know what has been posted is factual?
1) No. Said why but it was because most of the 'facts' do not relate to muscle building
2) As I posted above
3) No idea but agree it looked good. Although I did click on some of the links to see if the site was legit.
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 11 2008 18:09:44
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Rakim
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I personally feel that from my own experience Glutamine helps keep my gut healthy.
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I want 50 dbol and anavar, if you haven't replied in 24 hours or say no you sleep with the fishes capiche?
Cheers mate
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 11 2008 21:15:33
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EL GAUCHO
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And what does a healthy gut feel like?
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 11 2008 21:28:43
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Rakim
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It feels good.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tomazi8
I want 50 dbol and anavar, if you haven't replied in 24 hours or say no you sleep with the fishes capiche?
Cheers mate
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 12 2008 10:00:26
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SingleH
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None of these studies refer to whether they were carried out using free form L-Glutamine or Glutamine Peptides.
I'd like to see a study that compares efficacy of both forms.
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RE: GLUTAMINE. THE FINAL VERDICT - Apr. 13 2008 17:28:28
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James
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bump for more replies to my post
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