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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 24 2003 23:29:01
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Mighty306
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From: Philadelphia USA
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Frankie-
So do you recommend a 5x5 approach to all exercises within this routine? (including curls) Or, should accessory movements such as curls be limited to 3x6, etc.?
Also, I see your point in saying that the chest may not receive enough stimulation from just 5x5 bench. However, is it possible that the addition of 5x5 of incline bench on top of flat bench may hinder strength progress or even lead to overtraining? Or again, should the second movement be limited to a ahoter 3x6, etc.?
Thanks for the helpful insight.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 25 2003 4:53:26
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Frankie NY
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Do all exercises with 5x5. You won't overtrain blasting your chest with 10 sets a week. The only caveat is not to do two barbell or two dumbbell exercises. If you barbell flat bench, do dumbbell incline presses. If you barbell incline bench, do dumbbell flat presses. Some peope grow better from barbells, some from dumbbells. That's why I recommend to do both.
Dips are also awesome for chest as well as shoulders and triceps.
JohnnyFive suggested underhand chins as an alternative to doing barbell curls. This is a very good idea. I always recommend that guys who have a hard time getting their biceps to grow do underhand chins. The only problem is that a lot of guys find that after doing heavy deadlifts and barbell rows their grips don't have much left to do underhand chins. Either way is fine.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 25 2003 12:22:15
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mindle
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If i wanted to do dips instead of one of the pressing movements for chest would I substitute them for the flat or the incline press?
I was thinking of substituting them for the incline pesses
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 25 2003 16:16:42
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Frankie NY
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quote:
Originally posted by mindle
If i wanted to do dips instead of one of the pressing movements for chest would I substitute them for the flat or the incline press?
Either way is fine. It won't make much difference.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 28 2003 0:38:34
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mixedrace21
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hiya just wanted to ask how many sets and reps for each exercise respectively and if it is a good idea to add add an ab exercise for monday and also friday?
really appreciate any help
thanks
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 28 2003 5:28:23
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Frankie NY
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As far as sets and reps go, just like I said in my original post - 5x5 or 4x6. Or if you're a hard, hard gainer, 5x3.
I like to train abs just as hard as any other muscle once a week for around 10-12 reps. Working abs 3x a week isn't necessary. Don't forget that your abs get hit when you squat and deadlift, even if you don't feel it.
In a bulking phase, you don't want to work abs too much though because they will grow. But you need them to be strong enough so as not to be a weak point for squatting and deadlifting. What makes your abs more defined is of course lowering your bodyfat through diet and cardio.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 28 2003 5:47:04
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Slyblackdragon
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On your 5x5. Are deadlifts still 5x5?
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 28 2003 11:25:36
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miki
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Out of interest, why not train abs 5x5?
Do some muscles respond better to higher rep training than others?
M,
quote:
Originally posted by Frankie NY
As far as sets and reps go, just like I said in my original post - 5x5 or 4x6. Or if you're a hard, hard gainer, 5x3.
I like to train abs just as hard as any other muscle once a week for around 10-12 reps. Working abs 3x a week isn't necessary. Don't forget that your abs get hit when you squat and deadlift, even if you don't feel it.
In a bulking phase, you don't want to work abs too much though because they will grow. But you need them to be strong enough so as not to be a weak point for squatting and deadlifting. What makes your abs more defined is of course lowering your bodyfat through diet and cardio.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 28 2003 12:06:32
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DerMalePhonkMann
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quote:
Don't forget that your abs get hit when you squat and deadlift, even if you don't feel it.
Tell my body that! I get wicked ab DOMS in my abs after deadlifting. Then again, I get wicked DOMS everywhere...[B)]
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 28 2003 15:15:16
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Sessen Ryu
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Well, I have now completed one week of this routine.
I'm doing 4x6 and have substituted bb bench press for weighted dips.
I've really enjoyed this routine, and have fantastic doms (you know the constant ache in your lats and middle back, triceps feeling really tender, and the strike of pain in your pecs every time you take a step down a flight of stairs!  ).
I was a little sceptical about my tris getting done, as I used to do a similiar routine to "Pull day" anyway, but I included narrow dips and skulls. I shouldn't have worried, the doms have led me to believe that they've had enough stimulus.
My bis never feel like they're being done though, but they haven't for ages to be honest. When I work my back, i'm pretty good and isolating and contracting my back muscles to make sure that it IS my back that's taking most of the load, and my arms just end up being 'hooks' if you know what I mean, without taking much of the force. This seems to result in my arms never feeling like they're being done. Yeah, I know it's not all about feeling, and I'm trusting that they're 'getting it' too. -- The same story goes for my calves.
Anyway - just wanted to say cheers Frankie for a very enjoyable and well thought out routine. (Lets hope it bears some fruit!).
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 28 2003 16:09:20
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Frankie NY
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quote:
Originally posted by miki
[brOut of interest, why not train abs 5x5?quote:
If you train abs too hard, like 5x5, then you will get a big stomach, which is something you do not want if you are a bodybuilder.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 28 2003 16:29:25
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miki
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Cheers Frankie,
That makes sense. But I could train them this way until they are of a size I wanted - they still feel quite weak to me - or should I just let the dead lifts, etc make up the extra exercise for them?
M,quote:
Originally posted by Frankie NY
quote:
Originally posted by miki
[brOut of interest, why not train abs 5x5?quote:
If you train abs too hard, like 5x5, then you will get a big stomach, which is something you do not want if you are a bodybuilder.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 28 2003 21:51:12
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T_aslam
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Is it ok to do this on consecutive days? like tues, wed, thurs?
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 28 2003 22:26:17
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Frankie NY
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Definitely not! You need a day between each workout to recuperate. Sometimes you'll even need to have 2 days off between workouts to recuperate. Plus you should be so sore that you couldn't workout if you wanted to, even though you'd be working different muscles.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 30 2003 14:45:14
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RagingBull
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This is a great post and im definatly going to change my routine, and im literally about to start now, however i saw this as well and wondered what you might think would be better...
Twice a week:
do several warmup sets before each movement
squat 3x4-6
bench 3x4-6
deadlift 3x4-6
do this for 8 weeks max
Originally I was going to do that first then your one, but I like the sound of both of them...
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 30 2003 16:17:23
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Chez
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I have decided to take this routine on:
I will be doing dips rather than flat bench though!
I was also wondering whether to sunstitute bb rows for chins? can't make my mind up!
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 30 2003 17:41:12
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Chez
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Would putting shrugs in on back day be okay? - (I Know deads do hit you traps) - but maybe not enough, if so what reps/sets? 5x5?
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 30 2003 17:50:11
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Frankie NY
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quote:
Originally posted by RagingBull
This is a great post and im definatly going to change my routine, and im literally about to start now, however i saw this as well and wondered what you might think would be better...
Twice a week:
do several warmup sets before each movement
squat 3x4-6
bench 3x4-6
deadlift 3x4-6
do this for 8 weeks max
Originally I was going to do that first then your one, but I like the sound of both of them...
I've seen people use this routine and make good gains from it. I like it because it's relatively short, intense, and hits the three most important movements. What I prefer about a three day split where do you squat, bench, and deadlift on three separate days is that you can really focus on each movement. On the routine above, whatever movements you do 2nd and 3rd will receive less energy.
What I dislike about the routine is doing the same movement twice in one week. You're more likely to reach plateaus this way, which is why I wouldn't stay on this routine for too long, maybe 4-6 weeks.
You could use something like this to take a break from 3 day a week programs or if you only have two days to train.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 30 2003 18:00:12
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Frankie NY
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quote:
Originally posted by Chez
I have decided to take this routine on:
I will be doing dips rather than flat bench though!
I was also wondering whether to sunstitute bb rows for chins? can't make my mind up!
Would putting shrugs in on back day be okay? - (I Know deads do hit you traps) - but maybe not enough, if so what reps/sets? 5x5?
I'm glad to hear you're going to try my routine.
You could also do dips and flat bench. Just because you do dips doesn't mean you have to drop flat bench. You don't have to do one incline movement and one flat movement. You could also do two flat movements or two incline movements. Just make sure that you change the exercises in your next 12 week cycle.
Chins are a great back exercise. If you need chinning strength, then by all means do chins. But for adding mass to the lats bent over barbell rows are a far superior exercise. If you already have a very thick upper back and lats, then do chins. If not, do rows.
Shrugs??????? Remember we're focusing on heavy compound movements and not wasting time and energy on isolation exercises for now. Your traps will get hit plenty hard with heavy deadlifts, trust me.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Aug. 30 2003 18:57:15
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Genon
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I was sorta searching for a descent routine that not only gave strength gains, but also helped put on mass. In my last 6 months of training I have still put on some size but my strength does not seem to be rising at a pace that I can be happy with. I think I will try this for atleast a month and see what it does... If I enjoy it I'll do a full 12 week cycle. I just have one question...
Should we use this routine like a normal 5x5 strength routine and add weight whenever possible? Like... Atleast add 2 pounds per week. Or should we add weight only when on our 4th and 5th sets we can pump out 7-10 reps when we should only be able to do 5?
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