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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Sep. 29 2003 5:23:28
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HerecomesthePainF5
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Frankie, i was thinking about adding andro to my lifting habits. would this still be a good routine if i did that or would i wanna look for a routine with more to it? just a couple questions
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Sep. 29 2003 18:34:16
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Frankie NY
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PainF5:
For personal reasons I won't comment on the use of performance enhancing drugs, including over the counter.
My best advice is to train harder than humanly possible. How hard you train is a much more important variable in determining how strong and how big you become than drugs, supplements, or diet.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 2 2003 6:38:40
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HerecomesthePainF5
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Frankie, I have decided to do your program for the 12 weeks and see how i like it, and track my gains and all that. i will be starting that in a week or two.. I was wondering about cardio? I shouldn't do too much cardio right? otherwise it would burn off some of what i'm gaining? or is that wrong?
i was thinkin that maybe i'd do cardio 3 days a week:
15 minute run
10 minute jump rope
6 minutes shadow boxing
let me know on this one, and thanks alot man.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 2 2003 15:49:13
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Frankie NY
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You always need to do cardio, even when bulking. The heart is the most important muscle in the body. You also need some cardiovascular endurance for good squatting. Plus cardio helps keep unwanted fat off your body when you are bulking.
I'd recommend moderate cardio 3 times per week for 25-30 minutes. You can ride a bike, speed walk on a tread mill, play basketball, whatever. The only thing I wouldn't do is run. Running really taxes the recovery of your legs.
Please let us know how you progress. Good luck!
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 3 2003 20:54:23
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Lars
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Hi Frankie, that workout looks ideal for me. I've been doing ckd for some time now losing bodyfat and I'll be starting to bulk in the next 3/4 weeks I reckon.(been training about a year and don't know much about it.) I workout 3 times a week before work and I need to get in and out as quick as possible. i.e. 45 mins to 1 hr. Can you tell me how long you reckon each workout should take. is that 3-5 mins rest between each set? I just need to know so I can gauge my performance. If its meant to take 1hr and I'm out in 30mins I'm obviously lifting too light! Also, what sort of warm up? or is it simply 5 X 5 after stretching?
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 4 2003 4:24:34
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Frankie NY
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I would do 5 minutes of moderate cardio just to break a slight sweat, stretch for about 10 minutes, and then hit the weights. The weight portion of your workout shouldn't take more than 60-70 minutes if you don't socialize too much. Rest 2-5 minutes between sets. You'll probably need up to 5 minutes between sets for squats and deadlifts but maybe only as little as 2 minutes for exercises like rows or close-grip benches.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 4 2003 17:30:28
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BYF1
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hi
Ive been doing frankie's routine using 4x6 instead of 5x5 to save time and over the course of the workout you save yourself 3 sets worth of workout time/rest and can maybe take slightly shorter rests between sets. It saves me some time. I asked a question earlier in this thread about the effects of doing 4x6 as opposed to 5x5 but didn't get a reply so im not quite sure if 4x6 is any less productive in mass/strength building than 5x5.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 4 2003 21:04:34
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BYF1
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thanks :)
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 4 2003 21:04:37
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Frankie NY
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Sword:
I'm glad you pointed this out as I meant to mention it in the mass building routine I posted.
Some people will find two chest exercises to be too much. They won't have anything left for shoulders. This is my case. I do flat benches, overhead presses, and then either close-grip benches, close grip dips, or a forearm exercise. My chest grows fine and my bench goes up from just one excercise. You could try the same.
I wouldn't move shoulders to leg day. The problem is that your shoulders get hit hard all three days you train, and this is too much. Also, I wouldn't work my shoulders and triceps only 48 hours after having worked chest, which is what happens if you move them to leg day.
This is a long way of saying that two chest exercises may be too much if you want to hit your shoulder presses hard.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 4 2003 22:42:52
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Lars
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Thanks Frankie,
what about warm up sets or is it simply straight into working sets after stretching??
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 5 2003 3:18:12
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Boxer
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I'm doing 5x5 at the moment and I take three sets to warm up then three work sets because two sets doesn't feel enough for me when going so heavy.
I guess i'm doing 6x5 lol
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 5 2003 9:25:53
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HerecomesthePainF5
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Frankie,
Could you explain to me what chins are and bent over bb rows? and the proper way to do them?
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 5 2003 16:47:57
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rsharper
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sword
i was having the same problem with my shoulders so i changed the order that i do my exercises instead of
barbell bench press
incline db press
military press
i do
barbell bench press
military press
incline db press
that way my shoulders dont get neglected
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 5 2003 23:14:13
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T_aslam
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Read the "Curious about an exercise" post.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 8 2003 21:55:01
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blacklab
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Barbell Rows vs. Seated Machine Rows .. which is best for this program?
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 9 2003 10:56:41
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Lars
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I currently do a 2 day split.I weigh about 150lbs and lift the following weights..
Squat
Reps Weight
10 X 94
10 X 114
10 X 124
10 X 134
Bench--same as squat except I only got 9 reps out today when I tried it on the last set. Been Keto dieting without carbing up for 2 weeks and I may have lost some strength. Got 10 the last time I did it!
deadlift
Reps Weight
10 X 84
10 X 94
10 X 104
10 X 124
I'm only doing the deadlift about a month and find it very gruelling. I was lifting up to 124lbs for 10 reps and I pulled a muscle in my back. My form got bad as I increased the weight so I dropped it to a safe weight. I still find the above weight heavy!
I've been Keto dieting + weekly carb loading for some time. I'm now ready to start gaining and I'll be using creatine(for the 1st time) and MRPS(homemade) and taking in plenty of calories and carbs.
On the basis of that information can you stab a guess at what weight I should be trying to lift(for starters) while doing the above 5 X 5 routine.
Also, BFY1 asked about a 4 X 6. Is that less productive? Can anyone answer that because I need to be in and out of the gym in about 70 to 80 minutes including warmup and stretching.
Thanks for the help!!
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 9 2003 13:52:27
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UK THAI FIGHTER
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From: derby United Kingdom
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excellent post! i was thinkingh of changing my routine as i had been over training,Im gunna try frankies routine with 5x5s..how do i do 5x5s..do i increase the weight each set?
ts ok i have found f ny explanation in a different post.
Excellent routine and i cant wait to try it. 
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 9 2003 15:39:52
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Springy
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I've been doing this routine for about 5 or 6 weeks now and my lifts have gone up every week. I was sceptical at first thinking there wasn't enough volume but I get some really good doms for the next couple of days.
I'm hoping my progress will continue for the next few weeks but I realise I may hit the wall sooner or later on adding weight. What should I do when (or if) that happens?
For what it's worth my deadlift has increased loads (probably because I never used to do it and started at too low a weight although it felt heavy at the time). Compared to when I was doing a 3x10 routine I'm deadlifting about 45Kg more, benching 25Kg more, and squating 20Kg more. I guess I wasn't pushing myself hard enough when I was doing 3x10 and although every week while doing this 5x5 feels really hard I'm still improving my lifts each week.
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RE: Frankie NY's Mass Building Program - Oct. 9 2003 17:01:31
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Frankie NY
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quote:
Originally posted by Springy
I've been doing this routine for about 5 or 6 weeks now and my lifts have gone up every week.
I'm hoping my progress will continue for the next few weeks but I realise I may hit the wall sooner or later on adding weight. What should I do when (or if) that happens?
Those are great results! Congratulations!
If you plateau on one core exercise (squat, deadlift, or bench) for a few weeks, don't sweat it. That's totally normal. If you plateau on two or more for more than 2 weeks, that's a good sign that you need to take a week off. If you haven't taken a week off by week 12, take one off completely. No weights and only moderate cardio. You need to give your legs a chance to fully recover after 12 consecutive weeks of heavy deadlifting and squatting.
Then begin a new 12 week cycle of 5x5. In the second cycle, you'll probably need to take a week off a little sooner than with the first cycle. But maybe not. Just play it by ear. You can also mix up your exercises a little if you want. Front squats for back squats. Barbell incline bench for barbell flat bench. Dumbbell flat bench for dumbbell incline bench. Dumbbell overhead press for barbell overhead press. Power cleans for deadlifts. Etc.
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