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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Aug. 25 2004 13:02:19
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Dav
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Joined: Jun. 4 2004 From: United Kingdom Status: offline
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^^^ Although I haven't read all of the post.. yet I agree with the above^^^ I know and have trained numerous people who are natural and have for example as a job been a hod carrier or dig foundations etc.. all day - guess what 30-40 hr per week of quite high intensity training (digging wet clay is high intensity believe me) has resulted in development of some individuals especially in the shoulder, bicep and back area that I would consider a very high level of natural development. Take a look at a seriously fit wheelchair athlete often have very large arms/shoulders and these will be being used hard for hrs each day with no rest days to recover - makes you wonder doesn't it.
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Sep. 6 2004 23:59:44
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MuscleM4n
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Joined: Aug. 14 2004 From: london England Status: offline
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yeah dav your right - did you see those male gymnasts who used their arms on the ropes (whatever there called) there arms are MASSive bigger than most bodybuilders - just cos they use there arms sooo much. and ANYWAY what are triple dropsets - this is one of the only bodybuilding terms i dont now
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Squat -115kg x 3(new best on the 20/6/2005) Bench -70kg Deadlift -105kg. Total -290kg. I am 19, 5'4",56kg(125lbs) 8%fat MuscleM4ns Journal!!
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Sep. 7 2004 13:20:37
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MuscleM4n
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whats a drop? u mean pyramid up and then down again? the down part meaning drop set?
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Squat -115kg x 3(new best on the 20/6/2005) Bench -70kg Deadlift -105kg. Total -290kg. I am 19, 5'4",56kg(125lbs) 8%fat MuscleM4ns Journal!!
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Sep. 7 2004 13:42:54
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Robert
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Joined: Jun. 4 2002 From: Chester - England Status: offline
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no. get 3 sets of DB's, line 'em up on the floor and using any rep range (i use 3x6-8) curl the heaviest first, then the next, then the lightest. NO rest in between sets. be VERY strict with your form. my leatest session went: (doen 2xweek) 20x8 16x8 12x8 don't do it too often (4weeks on 4weeks off is fine for me) or you may risk overtraining.
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robmoatesv2@yahoo.com Roberts Pics: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/robmoatesv2/detail?.dir=b448&.dnm=5025.jpg I WOULD LIKE TO STRESS THAT I AM MISSING COFFEE LIKE MAD AND AM SICK TO THE ANUS OF THIS LOTUS TEA CRAP.
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Sep. 7 2004 14:16:04
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Big Les
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Joined: Aug. 16 2001 From: my desk! Status: offline
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I tend to do drop sets on machines with stacks - for the simple reason just try getting 3 sets of dbells to work with in my gym - lol - not in the evening you wont!
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Sep. 7 2004 14:34:13
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Robert
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i forgot to add. i don'tin any way agree with the principles of the article, or most of them. but it made an interesting read and if nothing else, should make newbies/beginners REALLY look at how much effort they put into thier workouts, and how much can be put in.
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robmoatesv2@yahoo.com Roberts Pics: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/robmoatesv2/detail?.dir=b448&.dnm=5025.jpg I WOULD LIKE TO STRESS THAT I AM MISSING COFFEE LIKE MAD AND AM SICK TO THE ANUS OF THIS LOTUS TEA CRAP.
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Sep. 7 2004 14:38:17
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Big Les
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The article reminded me of how I used to train when I started with random drop sets, negatives - a whole bunch of intensity techniques and I remember making good gains even though I have been training for 5 years for sport! I combine the principles of intensity with being instinctive and seeing whether I am capable of doing a particular thing that day, I nearly always try something somewhere in the workout just to change things up a bit. I have been doing the 10 sets of 10 recently as a way of changing things up.
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Sep. 7 2004 14:43:53
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Robert
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10x10 sounds insane. after CGbenching upto a 5RM then upto a 2RM on top of that, i had such a pump in my triceps i couldn't take my t-shirt off in the gym locker rooms.
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robmoatesv2@yahoo.com Roberts Pics: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/robmoatesv2/detail?.dir=b448&.dnm=5025.jpg I WOULD LIKE TO STRESS THAT I AM MISSING COFFEE LIKE MAD AND AM SICK TO THE ANUS OF THIS LOTUS TEA CRAP.
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Sep. 23 2004 23:49:56
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ExLax
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Joined: Apr. 30 2003 From: USA Status: offline
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My question would be, HOW THE HELL DO YOU GET ALL THOSE CALORIES WITH only 40 GRAMS OF FAT?!?! that is just plain ridiculous
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Sep. 24 2004 8:30:15
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trickassmark
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I just got home from doin the leg workout he recomends, and all I can say is ****! That is the hardest thing I've ever done. I've puked a couple times doin legs, but this by far tops any of those. You start the first set of leg press, and when you start gettin to failure, you're saying, "how the **** am I gonna drop two more times>" Like there's no possible ****in way. You get off the leg extension and just fall, I couldn't even walk to get a drink. I'm not kidding, if you don't believe what he says, at least try the legs, you don't know until you try. I didn't think that it would work all my muscles groups, there's not really anything for the inner thigh. But it does... just like he says, everything else is so tired that other muscles have to work. My calves even got a great workout. I don't really think this would be good for every muscle, but for legs it is definetly worth trying. Especially if you don't like squats or whatever, it takes a lot of strain off your back and knees, and gets you soar as ****.
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Sep. 24 2004 8:36:35
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trickassmark
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Right now, I'm doin exactly the same diet as he says in the article. Before I started it (the diet, I'm not doing his workout), I was plateuing. But since, I have went from 218lbs to 240lbs, just within the last 6 weeks, without any gear. I think its important to eat at least 7 meals a day, to make sure you eat enough. People totally underate the importance of eating enough. I'm currently eating 6000cals/day, with a total of 9 meals a day. Diet is everything... quote:
ORIGINAL: Snaeke "<b>You need to make sure you are getting 2-2.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight each day along with 2 ? 3 grams of carbs depending on your metabolism (if you are carb sensitive cut it back to 1.5-2 grams and compensate the calories with extra protein. Fats should be minimal 40 grams or under. </b>" Maybe I'm either missing something or I'm just different, but unless you're a 250 lb. mountain of muscle on gear and/or do a lot of non-stop hard physical labor at work, wouldn't you end up unecessarily putting on A LOT MORE FAT than muscle with those figures? For example, lets go with a diet of 2.5g protein, 3g carbs, and 40g fat for a 200 lb individual. Protein(500g) & Carbs(600g) have 4 calories per gram & fat has 9 calories per gram. This comes to a total of 4,760cals=(42%)500x4 + (50%)600x4 + (7.6%)40x9 In order to get this amount daily, say if you were eating 6 meals per day spaced out every 2.5-3 hours, you would need to consume 83g protein, 100g carbs, and 7g fat per meal(795cals total). Unless you're using gear or split the meals up even more & can sleepwalk & eat while in REM sleep every couple hours, how would most people ever be able to utilize that much protein? Wouldn't a lot of it get passed out through the stool(talk about money down the toilet, eh? heh) and/or stored as fat in the adipose tissues? hahah, I would go flat broke trying to buy the amount of food necessary for such a diet if I were someone that weighed 250+ lbs. [:p] Another thing I'm wondering about is why so little fat(7.6%), especially with those figures for protein & carbs? Granted, we don't need anywhere near as much compared to protein & carbs, but we do need certain fats(specifically polyunsaturated fats/omega-3,6,9 fatty acids, monounsaturated fats). Fat helps out with the absorption of fat soluble nutrients such as Vitamin A, D, E, and K. Another thing is its used as a structural component in all cell membranes & helps with hormone production(or for the gear user, recovery of natural production after cycle). They don't get stored as fat like saturated fats. EFA's(polyunsaturated fats) aren't produced by the body & must be obtained from your diet. Reducing to the point of having a deficit in these fats and choosing to "overkill" with protein & carbs and the only thing you're going to put on quicker is jiggling FAT. So for a 4760 cal diet(or any other diet), I think the lowest fat intake is around 15%, so you want 714 of those calories from fats, which calculates into 79g fat(4760x.15 = 714/9 = 79). If you're on gear, you definitely want to up your fat intake along with the other elements(i.e. protein, carbs). Otherwise, you're robbing yourself of gains because your body is lacking in key building materials and is unable to absorb enough nutrients in order for you to get the most out of your cycle. I'm also sure that most of the gear users here know that certain fats help a lot in keeping the bad cholesterol levels under control, since abnormally high test levels can raise it. As I said before, maybe I'm missing something. Some of this stuff I picked up from a recent visit to a well known Registered Dietician in my state. Of course, some dieticians focus more on weight loss & diets for diabetics, out-patients, etc., and tend to be a little rusty in areas dealing with sports nutrition & mass gain. heh, when it comes to steroids, most of them are ignorant. Other than that, it looks like a good "muscle shock" routine. Back when I was doing pyramids, I tried something similar for 4 weeks and put on close to 12 lbs. Definitely not something you want to do for too long because it does catch up to you.
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Sep. 28 2004 13:06:39
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EL GAUCHO
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Interesting article: Question: Are we looking to bump up the weight being used each week: for progression?
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Sep. 28 2004 13:11:13
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Big Les
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Joined: Aug. 16 2001 From: my desk! Status: offline
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Yes - if you arnt getting stronger you arnt building muscle - thats the reasoning and the reason diet is so important - as if you arnt in a calorie surplus you arnt going to get stronger from week to week - even in small increments like 1lb or 1 rep - week on week. In fact in a calorie defecit your strength can vary dramatically from day to day and decline slowly but surely over time, not least because as you lose fat the natural support of this is lost and the loss of bracing or counterweight cost you lifting performance. big les
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Sep. 29 2004 20:12:11
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EL GAUCHO
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Damn man! Tried this on bi's today: absolutely blitzed them! Gonna incorporate it in to my auxiliary exercises on my 5X5 routine.
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Oct. 5 2004 17:07:22
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CoVetous
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Joined: Sep. 25 2004 From: USA (Houston, Texas) Status: offline
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Yesterday I completed this routine only I did shoulders, leg press, triceps, chest, and calf (what muscles are here?) It took me and my partner about 1 and a half hours to do this. I began with my chest then moved to the leg press. My shoulders and leg press I didn’t train past failure, I just trained them enough to tire them out. Then I trained my triceps. I think this is the most painful workout regime I have ever tried. My eyes began to water and my face became bright red. The first 4 or 5 reps were not to bad, but getting to 10 reps was difficult. After 10, my partner helped me complete 8 more reps. My arms were on fire and I had difficulty extending them. We reduced the weight 30 percent. I began to lift the reduced weight and thought it was rather easy. On the 5th rep the weight felt too heavy and I could only complete the 8th rep. Reducing again 30 more percent I had difficulty completing one rep, however managed to squeeze off 5 total and 5 assisted. I went to get up from the bench and found myself very light headed. I even had to sit back down. About 2 minutes later and some heavy breathing I final decided to move on to another exercise. Only this time my arms felt dead. Triceps were different. I think maybe I didn’t load enough weight on them because I found myself in allot of pain but able to complete upward of 20 reps however, the first set I could only do 12 and the last 2 I struggled with. As soon as we reduced the weight my arms exploded and 20 reps was the name of the game. My triceps burned but didn’t hurt like my chest. I could feel my chest trying to help my triceps. Donkey raises, maybe im wrong on the name for this one…. (you set down, extend your legs almost strait. Then with your ankle and calf muscle you straiten your foot putting all the weight on your upper leg but mostly calf) Is this donkey raises? Anyway, I did this lift with 6 45lbs weights on both sides of the lift rack. It was tough, but not hard. I completed 20 reps. I could of most likely lifted another 100+lbs. This was odd because I really don’t work that muscle out allot other than carrying my heavy ass around. What was interesting is that I had some people watching, which would have been good until some kid asked me how much I can lift. How much doesn’t necessarily reflect strength right? I pressed this weight 20 times, that more of a feet to me than 100lbs more at 1 rep. Anyway, I was exhausted when trying to do these. But I felt strong inside. This workout regime does something to your mental state and or your muscles that allows you to really push yourself farther. Today I cant lift my arms over my head, and I have some pain when lifting anything that extends my triceps. My cal feels ok until I hit the stairs. All I can really say is OMG, my chest. I don’t think I have ever trained it this hard before.
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Oct. 6 2004 1:51:59
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richy_666
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Joined: Jul. 11 2004 From: Hamilton Canada Status: offline
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I give it to Trevor. To me this thread has been the best one I've read on this. Can you guys tell me if this guy has any books out ???
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RE: Beyond Failure Training - Trevor Smith - Oct. 11 2004 14:34:26
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bigmac
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Joined: Oct. 28 2001 From: United Kingdom Status: offline
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Hmmm i was a follower of trevors work for some time, let me just remind new people who are not familiar with his work acouple of things. 1. he is now dead 2. when alive he lived juice 3. he owned a supps company and could afford a mountain of the stuff 4. he had his own gym at the end with specially made equipment trevor was massive no doubt but he never took his shirt off indicating there was some body fat under that lot. All his intensity came from machine work not compound movements, i remember seeing the pics of him on the squat machine by Nebula using a grand. does that relate to a free weight grand..no way I aint knocking the program les and good luck on it mate but they are all based around mentzer/arthur jones techniques with little twists. i think the triple drop was actually invented by muscle mags robert kennedy in the 60's. didnt work for him tho he's a scrawny bastard
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