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not impressed personally


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Minger

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Re:not impressed personally 23 January 2012 09:57 (permalink)
The truth you can mitigate water retention by simply drinking more water taking ai's is just being lazy.

as far as I'm concerned test-e or c are the best first time cycle for gains and to see how your body tolerates testosterone. In most people levels are up in 3 weeks.

My first cycle was excellent and my friend has 2 weeks left on his, he followed the proper diet advice and has gained tremendously well over a stone.

Minger
 
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    dazc

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    Re:not impressed personally 23 January 2012 10:36 (permalink)
    The Truth

    as i said test e on its own is too slow acting and if you blow up like a balloon you have not taken the right anti e and its just water not muscle,, try test e and decca or test e and tren both need very tight control on e as e converts to prog (take proviron and armidex the whole  cycle)

     
    you really need to stop advising people on PED's.  Your advise isnt just bad, its plain wrong.
     
    The Truth

    as i said test e on its own is too slow acting )

     
    your wrong, plain and simple.
     
    The Truth

    as e converts to prog

     
     If your going to try and get technical, at least learn what it is your talking about, rather than trying to recycle something you read on the internet.    Your also wrong, by the way.
     
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      Big D

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      Re:not impressed personally 23 January 2012 11:02 (permalink)
      ^^^^ LOL well put.
       
      Test-e is 'too' slow acting!? i dont get that bit at all!
       
        dazc

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        Re:not impressed personally 23 January 2012 11:26 (permalink)
        Big D

        Test-e is 'too' slow acting!? i dont get that bit at all!


        if thats not baffling enough, somehow combining it with deca makes it worthwhile...! lol
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          Big D

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          Re:not impressed personally 23 January 2012 11:40 (permalink)
          [This post was marked as helpful]
          ok a 2nd go at putting my opinion across on the diet and routine Gee posted in a more constructive manner, i will keep it short as i cant be doing with it crashing after writing lengthy replies again!
           
          Firstly the diet: it has no place for this guy, he is an average joe who liks to train recreationally and run a couple of cycles a year, the diet posted is sub 1500kcals per day, his BM will be 1000kcals over that which is too much of a defecit. Add to the fact it is minimal carbs and zero fat and recovery from the prescribed INTENSE training routine will be very hard, in effect he will drop LBM, struggle to recover and this will make day-to-day functioning such as working a task in itself. Then there's the factor of slowing his metabolism down from such an intense routine and low calories.
           
          In short yes it will work for a bodybuilder going into comp prep, but this is not that and is miles away from being that, at a rough guess he must be 25-30lbs of LBM away from not looking out of place at a regional show.
           
          I would suggest a progressive diet which fits in with his lifestyle, he doesnt have to be on stage in 16 weeks so doesnt have to diet like he will be, it's a well known fact bodybuilders are cranky as hell in the final few weeks, it's like constant PMT, this guy does not need that. The only way he would do ok on the prescribed diet is by using a boat load of drugs, which he doesnt need to look decent.  He should start with a balanced diet, moving on to a CKD, it looks lik he may be carb sensitive, so placing carbs on training days will assist with recovery but lowering them on non-training days helps to create the defecit needed. This also aloows a more varied diet, eating 200gm chicken with 150gm of greens for a normal blokes evening meal with his family is just torturous, so again not needed, he can still easily achieve results without going through that. dropping sugars, white breads and processed carbs would be necessary to get the results quicker. low glycemic carbs such as sweet potato, basmati rice, rye bread etc should be the diets staples, proteins from lean sourcs and whey and fats from EFA's including nuts and fish. The most important things to consider will be to create a defecit, eat healthy foods and not no junk. having looked at his curent diet and stats i'd be starting off at around 2700kcals, the training would increase the defecit and then as weight is lost and less cals are needed start ripping them from carbs and marginally from fat too. This would be easy to stick to for anyone. Not everyone is a bodybuilder in the final few weeks of prep so not everyon has to eat like that, plus in the final few weeks strength dips and recovery becomes harder. AAS is usually high too to hold on to the muscle. In this case that is not needed.
           
          Training: as i said sprints + weights are much better than sscv for aesthetics and although i do not agree that this guy is obese at all, his conditioning is poor. From his pics i would also say his quads and traps are weak, if his quads were decent we'd have had a pic of them instead of just a bicep pic! So i would have him doing a 3 day split centred around the big 3 of benching of some sort (personally i much prefer d/b), deadlifts and squats. Higher volume than usual programmes with the aim for the first 6 weeks to increase reps or add weight to the bar, 3-5% would be the target for each session. To put a detailed routine together i'd have to see what he's currently doign and where his weak points are, he hasnt posted any lifts so we done know. I would however start with something very basic as he looks like he needs the condition side more than anything. squats/deads would be 10-12 reps for 6 sets with up to 90s rest, reps controlled and not just banged out either. i would also incorporate supersets (not compound sets) to increase the intensity.Something along the lines of total volume sessions would be good for the OP as it increases and keeps heart rate up and gives him a marker for progression each session.
           
          sprints/hiit would be 2-3 times per week on non-weight days and not to be unfuelled AM. starting at 15 mins and progressing to 20 minutes, the aim would be to bring the rest period down. These can be done on the road, a bike or a rower. I prefer the rower for myself, but for some they fatigue too quickly. SSCV i would suggest to tag on to weights sessions if sprints/hiit sessions are missed and then only 20 mins would be needed.
           
          I dont like HIT as it works for so few people, i have seen some get good results from it but i always wonder if they could have got better results. All the science points away from this type of training for hypertrophy though, hence my original comments.
           
          AAS: for the OP, he really doesnt need anything, by following a progressive training programme he should not lose strength and the diet will help him hold on to his LBM, which he has worked hard for. IF he was to use AAS i would suggest a moderate dose of 500mg test-e per week with t3 at 25-50mcg per day, this would easily be enough. This way he has a lot of room to progress to using higher doses, more meds such as hgh, slin etc etc
           
          The important point i want to stress is that by going all in from the off on diet it leaves him nowhere to go when his meatbolism slows or fat loss stagnates, it also gives him little fuel for recovery from sessions; 3 HIT weights sessions plus 5 AM unfuelled AM cardio sessions on that diet would be hellish and he would burn out very quickly. It is important for those leading 'normal' lives to still function normally, he is not a bodybuilder and is a long way off stepping on stage, so there's no need for him to go through a gruelling prep like diet.
           
          just to clear one point up about myself too Gee, i never said my knowledge on AAS was limited i said my use was moderate compared to a lot i know, currently i'm running 3iu pharma hgh and 25mcg t3, although i am planning on running what will be a big cycle for me if a few things are ironed out over the next few weeks, i'm currently sat at 252lbs with decent conditioning, i will however never be a bodybuilder, not everyone wants to be one. My views and knowledge on AAS come from sports though, bodybuilders abuse the **** out of AAS and very few know which drugs are doing what, when i'm on i have my bloods done every few weeks, not many bodybuilders have ever had them done. The world of bodybuilding has a lot to leanr from other sports in terms of training techniques, diet and even AAS yet a lot are ignorant to it, which is a shame imo.
           
          I've put my points across as respectfully as i can and have justified why i think the diet and routine posted were in no way applicable to the OP, i've left the personal insults out, which i'm pretty ashamed i lowere myself to do, so apologies for that. I do have a right to challenge you though and the fact is no matter how i asked you to justify it you swerved that question, thats all this thread has been about, your only justification at last on page 8 was very basic imo, but that's your perogative to answer that way, you have wanted to make it personal and call me out, i have wanted you to back up your ideals, neither has helped the OP.
           
          I will leave this thread well alone now that i have imo been constructive with my points, i know it only took me 4 pages!
           
            dazc

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            Re:not impressed personally 23 January 2012 13:04 (permalink)
            ^^ Good post, and is well suited to what the OP needs to progress from where he is at
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              Johnny Napalm

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              Re:not impressed personally 23 January 2012 13:12 (permalink)
              dazc


              ^^ Good post, and is well suited to what the OP needs to progress from where he is at

               
              X2
               
              Although i have one question....Can you please elaborate on why you state sprints are better than SSCV for aesthetics?
               
              Cheers
               
                brutali

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                Re:not impressed personally 23 January 2012 16:52 (permalink)
                dazc


                The Truth

                as i said test e on its own is too slow acting and if you blow up like a balloon you have not taken the right anti e and its just water not muscle,, try test e and decca or test e and tren both need very tight control on e as e converts to prog (take proviron and armidex the whole  cycle)


                you really need to stop advising people on PED's.  Your advise isnt just bad, its plain wrong.

                The Truth

                as i said test e on its own is too slow acting )


                your wrong, plain and simple.

                The Truth

                as e converts to prog


                If your going to try and get technical, at least learn what it is your talking about, rather than trying to recycle something you read on the internet.    Your also wrong, by the way.


                Id watch what I say with this big un Daz, youll start getting offensive private  messages calling you names like i am :)


                 
                  Keane

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                  Re:not impressed personally 23 January 2012 17:25 (permalink)
                  Minger


                  The truth you can mitigate water retention by simply drinking more water taking ai's is just being lazy.
                  Minger

                   
                  Disagree totally here mate, Water helps but it's not all down to that and salt. You need an AI sometimes to keep estro sides down. Estrogen is more suppressive than test, much more so you'll recover more quickly if you do take an AI IMHO.
                   
                  That being said estrogen is not all bad- that's not my view. I feel better on cycle without an AI sometimes but needs much. Also estro helps you grow too, so I can see where your coming from.
                  <message edited by Keane on 23 January 2012 17:29>
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                    Minger

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                    Re:not impressed personally 23 January 2012 17:30 (permalink)
                    I was only referring to water retention mate ofc i totally agree with you, however, a beginner doing a test only cycle I wouldn't advise taking a ai which I thought was the context, apologies if this wasn't clear.

                    With cycles using heavier doses of test and other compounds I wouldn't do a course without running a ai, it's getting the balance right that is a struggle taking not too much and not too little is person specific.

                    Minger
                     
                      Keane

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                      Re:not impressed personally 23 January 2012 17:33 (permalink)
                      Yes sorry mate should have seen what you meant, but the whole thread did get a tad off course lol. Just a little.
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                        Minger

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                        Re:not impressed personally 23 January 2012 17:36 (permalink)
                        Did it get off course? I didn't notice lol
                        Minger
                         
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