cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?!

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (DonPaulo666)

Sat, 31 Oct 2009 19:02:24 GMT

I consume 100g or there abouts in any shake I have, I don't give a damn, gain well.

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (Big Les)

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:51:35 GMT

cliff - if you have more whey than your absorbtive capacity at one sitting it is wasted.
often you can tell who is doing this in the gym by the smell!

However, this is easily avoided with quality products taken appropriately.

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (cliff_vtr)

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:06:25 GMT

will too much whey get lost down the loo, surely not unless your digestive tract is irritated by the whey and you end up with the runs?

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (markfj)

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:11:55 GMT

Interesting,

wandering then maybe I should stop having 50g whey at a time, apart from PWO... perhaps 25g a time is enough generally, suppose its trial and error

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (Big Les)

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:39:34 GMT

KK - is entitled to his opinion on this - and there is nothing wrong with what he is saying.

However there are other successful schools of thought when it comes to protein supplementation - Chad Nicholls - now he has a resume to be envious of, for example is a proponent of whey on its own - and isolate at that.

The fact is: and I mean fact: 25g of whey is not the limit - we dont know the limit.
There are too many variables.
What we do know is what I have said.

Honestly this is all bullcrap anyways - each type of protein delivery method has a merit and a rationale: and many ways have been shown effective.

The point is you fit in your whey and protein supplementation within a diet structure to suit you as an individual - where the people who are good at giving nutrition advice excel is in putting it all together for you and how you work, you train, you recover, how your body reacts.

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (cantona)

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:23:09 GMT

KK knows his stuff and i recently met him on a seminar and asked him this question.He said the blends as in MR and Peptide, you can have 40-50g because its time released proteins.
He actually said he doesnt rate whey and only sold it because of huge demand, he said stick to a blend as in peptide, because whey is to fast and you end up toileting most away, although it is excellent pwo with fast carbs.

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (Big Les)

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:05:12 GMT

Both together does the trick very well - splitting the timing does not add anything at all.
and in fact may even take away - evidence is that together there is a synergistic effect to enhance replenishment pwo!

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (mikejm)

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:47:14 GMT

Big Les

Whey has two possible destinations - it can become amino acids that go to the liver and are utilised as protein building blocks as per the body's needs or they can be made in to glucose and sent as an energy source.

now the whey it works is - if your body doesnt need the protein building blocks, or there is a shortage of energy - then the liver will choose glycogen first.
however, if there is a need for protein and sufficient energy aminos will be utilised as aminos.

For this reason is it best to have a carb source PWO before whey so the whey can be used as protein building blocks? Or is dextrose etc. in the whey suitable enough?

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (Extremepump)

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:00:18 GMT

Nothing replaces hard work and a tailored diet! Most huge people don't even know how they got huge. They are just genetically blessed. Genetic garbage like me has to work damn hard for every gramm of muscle. Take Jay Cutler, have you seen him at 19? Unbelievable, he was damn big back then. He is an intelligent guy though and recognized his potential. When I started working out 19 years ago I weighed 68kg. My highest weight was 102kg, but I carried some fat. Right now I weigh 89kg at less than 6% body fat, I'm 5.8 by the way. Since I jacked up my protein intake drastically and included some cardio I became lean and strong. I'm now stronger than I was when I weight 102kg, although I really don't care much about the weights I lift. I just wanna look good :-) Deadlift last week 225kg for 4 reps, all I can do... Intend to compete in Exeter next year, there is a NABBA show in April.... let's see how it goes!

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (Big Les)

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:32:06 GMT

Very old chestnut this one.

The fact is - we dont know the maximum amount of whey that can be absorbed post workout.
We do know that absorbtive capacity will change with exposure - that means the more whey you have the more you will be able to utilise - if you go from none to 100g pwo you are going to lose a lot down the loo ... however this does not mean that there is no one who cant utilise 100g pwo - there could be.

Secondly whey would not necessarily be oxidised to waste - in fact whey is absorbed as amino acids, they travel to the liver - and here their fate is decided - whey also elicits an insulin response - which means that what happens in the liver is rather important.

Whey has two possible destinations - it can become amino acids that go to the liver and are utilised as protein building blocks as per the body's needs or they can be made in to glucose and sent as an energy source.

now the whey it works is - if your body doesnt need the protein building blocks, or there is a shortage of energy - then the liver will choose glycogen first.
however, if there is a need for protein and sufficient energy aminos will be utilised as aminos.

Thats the first part of the pwo question to consider when evaluating this statement

Secondly there is absorbtive capacity - which I said can change over time, that is the body can become more efficient at processing a certain food with repeated exposure - so a new user to whey will lose a lot more down the loo than someone with years of use.

So add in all the variables and you cannot even begin to presume that 25g is the limit.
the whole max capacity thing started with Scott Connoly at MetRx anyway - and it was 99% justification for not putting more than 25g whey in their product when other suppliers did and MetRx started losing market share.

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (yungdest81)

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:13:27 GMT

Brilliant. It depends on your weight.

Someone who weighs 7 stone still gets the same advice....'you need about 300g of protein a day mate'

Thats the sort of thing I've read on here time and time again anyway :)

I've got 2 uncles, now in their fifties who are very well built. Never took sups, never spread out their meals 6 times day, never ate before bed etc ect. When I asked how they ever managed to bench 140KG, they just replied 'Ate when hungry and trained hard'.

I agree with other posts, this is always way over complicated.

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (mega)

Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:21:54 GMT

whether you want to be huge or not, the muscle building process is still the same. if you wanna grow muscle, bodybuilding is the way to go, just stop when you get to the size you wanna be, but follow a bodybuilding routine to get there n youll save yourself some time.

on topic, personally, i reckon 1.4g protein per pound BW is about right through out the day, with about 40g comming from pre and 40 from post workout shakes, OR, 20 pre, 20g mid workout bar, and then 40 from post work out shake.

both work well for me, but i progessed quicker using a smaller pre workout shake and a mid workout protein intake.

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (yungdest81)

Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:51:55 GMT

The problem on this forum, is everybody assumes the people here want to be massive bodybuilders.

I certainly don't, but I want to build some muscle yes.

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (Extremepump)

Mon, 26 Oct 2009 06:31:19 GMT

Generally I eat real food. I mix power usually with my oats and have an evening shake. Everybody reacts differently anyway. Most of the huge guys don't even really know how thay got that big - it's their genetics. I have to works real had for every gramm of muscle! Reducing my protein intake i.e. did not work for me at all. I've been training for nearly 20 years, not much I have not tried. Suffice it to say it also depends on your supplementation... Train hard, eat well ( count your food!!) get sufficient rest and set yourself some specific goals!

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (duff)

Sun, 25 Oct 2009 21:41:39 GMT

When I reduced my protein intake from 2 large scoops down to just one large scoop I got leaner and still built some lean muscle. So Ive kept it there for now.

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (jingaro)

Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:34:51 GMT

surely there are a lot of factors involved in affecting how much is digested and used, I don't think there is a 25g that is applicable to everyone, similarly as there isn't really such thing as an average height or average man

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (indie)

Sun, 25 Oct 2009 16:25:19 GMT

I've seen big gym guys that don't have much more protein than a regular eater. Now, they may have got to their size in half the time; if they amped up the protein, but you can still grow on lower protein consumption

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (iaink)

Sun, 25 Oct 2009 16:07:52 GMT

We just fancied a jug with our mexican meal. Had a beer first and after off course.

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (essex_chris)

Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:34:28 GMT

iaink

Applos for spelling. Its bad at the best of times but Pimms and beer dosn't improve it :)

I cannot imagine you sitting drinking pimms - the facial hair surely clashes

Re:cnp says more than 25g whey is waste?! (iaink)

Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:56:50 GMT

lol Mike. Thats my point! Don't over complicate things!