Shoulder posture?!

Re:Shoulder posture?! (Danny187)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:00:25 GMT

Only mentioned lats as they insert to the front of the humerus, when tight they can also play a part in Kyphosis, mainly pecs and weak / long mid traps and rhomboids.

Re:Shoulder posture?! (Ak_88)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:09:30 GMT

Next

AK - I didn't know lats were recruited for retraction of the scapular?

What i meant with the upper traps, was that its a faulty motor pattern. Generally from what i have seen you ask someone to pull their shoulders back there is a lot of upper trap movement, ie they are dominant through their upper traps.

Thats the point i was making - they don't! But many will try and retract their scapulae but they're actually just flexing the shoulder joint and firing the lats by mistake.

Drew wrote a good post on shoulder stuff here;

http://www.muscletalk.c...8313&mpage=1#2869268

Re:Shoulder posture?! (Next)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:55:22 GMT

AK - I didn't know lats were recruited for retraction of the scapular?

What i meant with the upper traps, was that its a faulty motor pattern. Generally from what i have seen you ask someone to pull their shoulders back there is a lot of upper trap movement, ie they are dominant through their upper traps.

Wall Slides would be good exercise, as is the seated row as people have mentioned. Again with that focus on scapular retraction (think of squeezing a pen in shoulder blades) as people tend to lift with their upper traps due to using to much heavy weight.

Re:Shoulder posture?! (Danny187)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:27:29 GMT

Yeah stretch Pec Minor / and Major, Stretch Lats, Do firing exercises on Rhomboids and mid traps before all back and pressing exercise, If you have winged scapula where the blades pretrude out of the back and mean you have weak serratuss anterior.

Exercises like Seated row but with scapula retraction, bent over rows aswell always concentraing on scapula retraction.

If you work at a desk get the monitor at eye level and put keyboard close to you.

Re:Shoulder posture?! (Ak_88)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:24:21 GMT

Agree with the last bit Next - but IMO it's more to do with retracting the scapulae with the lats rather than the upper traps, and not depressing with the middle/lower fibres.

Do the upper traps function as a scapular retractor? I genuinly don't know.

Re:Shoulder posture?! (Next)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:05:00 GMT

Anything to stretch your pecs (look for pec stretch on the net) perform these at a range of angles (might different part of your pecs taht are tight), i also perscribe bicep stretch (but that varies depending on the individual), Lats may need to be (if you lay down on your back and raise your arms up in front of you as far as possible over your head and see how much your back arches. if it arches a lot then stretch those as well). and traps

I would do scapula push ups (google those) for your serratus anterior (the muscle that holds your scapula against the ribs)

Big thing imo is just posture throughout the day, as you mentioned. I would be careful as many people have poor perception of what they are doing, so you say your pulling your shoulders back but i find a lot actually pull through their upper traps and not through the lower fibers.

Re:Shoulder posture?! (rich2988)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 15:14:09 GMT

Black Eagle - What stretches would yo8u tend to suggest?

Would strengthening rhomboids to pull the scapula back improve posture and prevent the 'ape' look?

I try my best to keep good posture, whenever i remember i make a concious effort to stand with shoulders back - which in turn makes my chest look better anyway.

I don't think i suffer to much with the kyphotic or ape look, but still not perfect

Cheers

Rich

Re:Shoulder posture?! (Black Eagle)

Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:21:40 GMT

The biggest issue I see inside my clinic is the ape look on guys who have steadily decreased their posture through too much chest work,bicep work and shoulder work.

Look at it this way, if you do a lot of the above, and by shoulder work i mean any sort of press where the anterior part of deltoid is the prime mover, then you'll eventually lose your correct posture. this is done through a internal rotation of the shoulder bought on by a loss of flexibility in the chest, bicep with an overdeveloped anterior deltoid.

Those who work in front of a computer every day will tend to have a similar issue because they will find they get lazy with their posture and start to hunch at their desks.

To correct this problem, I generally prescribe a strict stretching program to improve flexibility, ensure my client is doing Seated rows, posterior lateral raises and tell them to avoid sit ups, because for one, they do nothing, and to they can contribute to the hunching over effect.

Re:Shoulder posture?! (22jasper)

Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:27:34 GMT

I'm visiting the physio atm for a rotator cuff condition. This, he has told me has been brought on by the pecs drawing the shoulders forwards, which overrides the proper function of the scapula, limiting its ROM. I now have to improve the ROM of the scapula utilising the lower trapezius,serratus and lats, through various exercises, none involving weights resistance.

He suggested that my back was fundamentally weak, even though i have a well developed back,purely because that one weak link is preventing a natural ROM. BTW, back is my strongest bodypart

Re:Shoulder posture?! (fun meter)

Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:30:24 GMT

yungdest, i still dont think you fully understand. And I cant really be bothered to go into detail.
I am talking about posture not muscles size. Understand anatomy and muscle function and you'll understand why certain muscles need more focus (dependent on person) to maintain optimal alignment and positioning of areas of the body.

Rodger - Yeh I still do all that stuff. I dedicate 30minutes before every workout to do roller, dynamic flexibility/mobility/ROM and activation work.
Deadlifts are great. They work all the muscles which are usually weak - hamstrings, glutes, mid back, rhomboids / middle traps.
Sorry to hear you've hurt yourself, but atleast (im guessing) you've been able to do some training.

Re:Shoulder posture?! (yungdest81)

Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:10:12 GMT

You said the most important thing.

See a physio. :)

Re:Shoulder posture?! (Rodger)

Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:01:47 GMT

i agree with what you are saying mate but these are things that are added in often given to you by physios who understand the issue with smaller postural muscle being neglected and the larger prime mover mass muscles (lats, pecs etc) being train or maybe over train.

Of course improveing posture does start with sitting correctly. My backs prob my best part too but only becuase ive had weakness issues with both shoulders and pressing has always been something i could put 100% into.

Im not too advanaced either mate :-)

Re:Shoulder posture?! (Rodger)

Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:01:46 GMT

Re:Shoulder posture?! (yungdest81)

Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:19:11 GMT

Each to their own, I used to have a rounded stance. I found sitting up straight (hard to get use to) along with a good routine has actually made my back the most impressive area of my body.

I didn't concerntrate on one area.

The same way I squat because I want to hit my quads. Advanced BB's do hack squats to target the teardrop (I've read) :) But as I'm not that advanced I just squat and deadlift. I just think sometimes things are made far too complicated.

Re:Shoulder posture?! (Rodger)

Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:14:29 GMT

Yes a full and balanced workout of back and shoulders but when you start having problems (as the OP is sugesting) then you need to look at other methods).

Fun Meter,

i didnt know Deads properly exucuted were actually good for posture. All i know is ive damaged a facet Joint dong them last week :-( lol

Are you still doing foam rokker stuff etc?

Rodge

Re:Shoulder posture?! (yungdest81)

Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:59:59 GMT

Exactly, a full workout of the back and shoulders will target the right areas.

All this do that and this to target this area, sorry sounds tosh to me.

Unless you're an advanced BB I would just make sure you get a good back and shoulder routine sorted.

Re:Shoulder posture?! (fun meter)

Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:44:17 GMT

He's not talking about hitting muscles. He wants to sort out posture.

Lots of strict neutral grip Cable Rows is a good start. Something like 100 reps total a week.
Deadlifts done correctly are great for overall posture.

Re:Shoulder posture?! (yungdest81)

Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:07:12 GMT

I really don't think it needs to be over complicated.

pull ups, rows, lat raise, shoulder press, deadlifts.

Some of the best imo, this will hit most muscles.

Re:Shoulder posture?! (Rodger)

Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:01:09 GMT

Bit more to it than that really.
Im sure Drewsky if he sees this will be able to input more comprehensively but.

You do need to be training the muscles that control and stabilise the shoulder like the scaplur, lower traps and also Rotator Cuff Muscles. Try to make sure upper traps and also (i think) Rhomoids arent over developed likewise with chest development.

I do band pull aparts, shoulder disloctions, foam roller work incline shrugs nothing appears to work for me though :-(

Rodge

Re:Shoulder posture?! (yungdest81)

Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:32:18 GMT

If they're rounded you need to stand up straight surely ?

Other than that you need to sort out a good shoulder and back routine.

All about the shoulder press for me.