Can one train too hard for optimum size gains?

Re:Can one train too hard for optimum size gains? (hutchy)

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:31:54 GMT

Thanks for two great posts! I usually do chest in with biceps or legs don't know why i forgot to add it in last night!
My diet is still too carby, I'm trying to work on it atm will put up a plan in a day or two for some critiscism.

Did biceps and back today, in the following order
Wide grip pull ups 5*5 (last set failed at 4)
Deadlift 80kg*5 6 sets (was feeling good after the fifth so went for another)
Roman chair back extensions with 10kg plate 5*5
Bent over row 30(+curl bar)*5 5 sets
Seated row 45kg*5 4 sets

Hammer curls 12kg 5*5
Preacher curl 17.5(+curl bar) 5*5
Concentration curl 8kg 5*5

Didn't break a sweat but my arms felt totally done, back doesn't feel worked but my grip strength was limiting me a lot.
Any one any thoughts on this particular workout?
Thanks for the help again

Re:Can one train too hard for optimum size gains? (All4n)

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:02:09 GMT

It's entirely possible to overtrain. As drewsky has mentioned supersets shouldn't be used as a staple exercise method, more to switch things up/get past sticking points or for when you want to maximise glycogen depletion and calorie expenditure. You'll mainly want to do this when trying to loose bodyfat, not for gaining significant muscle mass.

As suggested, lower volume and concentrate on getting stronger on the big lifts. I see you're not working chest? Why not? Also arms don't need their own day.

Bench press (chest) + cable flyes + CGBP
Deadlift (back) + bent over row + pull ups + ez bar curls
Squats (legs) + good mornings/SLDL + calf raises
Shoulder press (shoulders) + front/side raises

Above should be the first exercise on that particular day and hit 3-6 reps. Max weight you can shift with good form. Try 3x3 or 5x5. Hit other exercises for 8-12 reps with 2-3 sets max.

Basically it's about lifting heavy as possible on the compound lifts, throw a few assistance exercises in and most importantly eat enough to support new growth. May be an idea to post up diet to see what it looks like?

Re:Can one train too hard for optimum size gains? (Drew Price)

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 10:31:23 GMT

Are you suing a lot of supersets? Supersets shouldn't be used for every exercise and they shouldn't bee used for a long time on the same bodypart. If you ss'ing all your compound movements then this will effect strength gains certainly.

Whilst the overload s'sets give you can stimulate muscle gains so does shifting big weights so you have to balance the two training methods. Add to that that advanced movements are best used to overload the mucsle for a few weeks, yo then back off and let it recover - this is where it grows.

Try lowering volume, upping the weight on big movements, not supersetting them with anything and working from there.

Can one train too hard for optimum size gains? (hutchy)

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:14:05 GMT

hi guys, basically the question is as above?
I ask as I am about to embark on a major mass building experiment. I'm 22 a junior Dr and always loved going to the gym/keeping fit very sporadically, but in the past year I've really gotten into marathon running and ran 3 in 6 months.
Now as a winter treat to myself (and my gf more who hates having a 150lb bf) I fancy going on a bit of a bulk.

As above im 150lbs at 5ft 8, fairly lean but by no means shredded. I have been lifting the past month and sporadically in the past 4 years and notice that I really don't gain strength or size easily.

Current programme I intend to follow is a 4 day split with Bi/tricep, back/abs, shoulders, legs (as these are my weakest points they get dedicated days)
To take the shoulder workout for example I did:

8*35kg barbell press supersetted with 8*17.5kg front cable raise 3 sets

8*17.5 dumbells seated lift supersetted with 7kg horizonal dumbells raises 3sets

8*10 bent over rear raises (like reverse dumbell flys) supersetted with 25kg(+curl bar) high lifts 3sets

8*50kg barbell shrug*3

Am I right in thinking this is too many reps? Problem is I genuinely can't shift much more weight at least with good form and a reasonable number of reps. While leaving the gym i feel absolutely fine, rarely even in a sweat, the get horrendous DOMs for two days after. Seems to be less of a problem now I'm over 3000kCal/day compared with 2k

My goal, is to basically look like a mens health physique....yup there I said it, sorry lol!
Sorry for the long winded post, pics and a journal will be forthcoming, does anyone have any advice or encouragement? I'm just a bit downbeat after previous efforts that lasted 4-6 months and saw me gain minimal mass in a very unlean fatty way, followed my stripping it all off through running