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10 Days Gyno. Help

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SexiSpartan
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2014/11/10 22:12:20 (permalink)

10 Days Gyno. Help

Hi Guys,
 
         any help would be greatly appreciated. im on week 5 of a TDT-250 cycle (100mg Test Prop, 75mg Tren Ace, 75mg Masteron) i do 1.5ml EOD along with 50mg proviron and 100mg Anavar ED. Im at 7% bodyfat and 85kg and getting into some great shape. During week 3 i added an extra 100mg prop to my TDT shot on mon, wed, and noticed a slight tingle on fri in right nipple area. i keep nolvadex on stand by and 20/40mg usually kills any gyno flare up after a couple days in past. So on the Sat i decided to start nolvadex at 40mg ED to try and zap it straight away, i kept this dose for 5 days and was surprised that the small gyno lump was still there, (its abt the size of a pea, adjacent to right nipple, not noticeable but i can feel it) i then decided to add Adex at 1mg ed in a panic i must admit, so i did 40mg nolvadex and 1mg adex for a further 5 days, and a tiny improvement. So yesterday i decided to go into the emergency drawer and crack out the letrozol, im running that on its own at 2.5mgs ed in the hope that will nuke it. Its pretty new/fresh gyno, about ten days old, so still soft, how long should letro take to have effect ? never used it before, i know sides are very harsh but wanna zap this tiny gyno in the bud asap.
 
Also i was contemplating whether i was too hesitant and maybe should have ran  nolvadex at 60/80mgs a day for a week ? as in the past nolvadex has always zapped similar gyno after a few days ?
 
any advice comments would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks
#1
Valley Fitness
n i n j a
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/10 23:48:56 (permalink)
first thing. stop the additional test prop
 
and relax
 
the letro will take a week possibly 2 to reverse the gyno depending on how well you react to it and after dropping the extra prop the nolva would have done the same but would simply have taken longer.
 
youve taken a fast acting steroid and it's given you a fast occuring side effect but the good news is that even now your test levels are dropping back down to the original prop dose which didn't cause you an issue so this is a temporary set back and nothing really to worry about.
 
stick with the letro at least for this week and if it's reversed enough go back to nolvadex if not stick with the letro for another week but personally i've never had to take it longer than 10 days
 
ninja

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n i n j a
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/10 23:49:14 (permalink)
and welcome to MT
 
ninja
 

AKA theweeninjaguy.  8 st 2 lb when I joined this site, I’ve gained 7 stone since then. Homer stands behind me as a reminder that a normal 44 year olds body is constantly chasing me. The only difference between me and homer, is MT and the gym!
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SexiSpartan
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/11 00:23:39 (permalink)
Phewww.. Thanks so much Ninja, appreciate the quick response, yh i stopped the extra prop immediately after the 2 shots, Finally getting my physique to the point of where i wanted it to be and the possibility of gyno was a heartbreaker. Il continue with the letro for a week or two and update..
 
Thanks again.
 
p.s: any idea what the general consensus time frame is for gyno to become "hard" and "fibrous" ?
 
 
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n i n j a
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/11 00:41:56 (permalink)
not sure for anyone else but for me it took a 10 week long cycle of sust for mine to form and get hard to the point where although i could revers it using nolvadex it never totally went away. was always 2-3mm diameter, fookin taunting me but would never actually get smaller than that. 
 
i think the most important thing to do with gyno is when you notice it, hit it hard with the strongest possible med, get it to f uck asap. as i noticed my gyno on about week 4 of my cycle and did nothing as i was loving the gains and it wasn't sore, not really and i figured i'd reverse it later but by the end it was like a 1" diameter marble and although i managed to seriously reduce the size, it never went away and any time i did a cycle with more than 200mg of test in it the damn thing would flare up and grow, year on year, until eventually i let it grow and then got it removed on the nhs by which time it was about 0.5" diameter and solid.
 
had it removed on both sides now but that's not to say it won't come back as not all the breast tissue was removed, only the lump as on the nhs they don't do gyno prevention, only treatment for cancer and lumps. so now any time i get a tingle in ( the one nipple that still has sensation ) i start necking letro like it's smarties!
 
generally tho i tend to use non aromatizing meds now where possible. test prop was a good choice on your part tho as if you'd chosen sust you'd be fighting a build up of test levels for the next 2 weeks. so stopping the extra prop injection should make your recovery fairly swift.
 
letro will kill your sex drive tho so if you're married or with someone better get some viagra, calais or even proviron in. libido and sexual function will return 2-3 days after you stop the letro.
 
actually if you're married you'll be fine lol 
 
ninja

AKA theweeninjaguy.  8 st 2 lb when I joined this site, I’ve gained 7 stone since then. Homer stands behind me as a reminder that a normal 44 year olds body is constantly chasing me. The only difference between me and homer, is MT and the gym!
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SexiSpartan
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/11 00:57:37 (permalink)
luckily not married, my mrs is away on fam hol for next 3 weeks so a blessing in disguise lol 
 
I actually did the extra prop 100mg on the 27th and 29th Oct and noticed a flare up on the 1st Nov which i began 40mg Nolva asap, its been 11 days since the extra prop injections so the test levels should have dropped back down to the previous dose after 3 days i assume, just find it strange how in the past 20/40mg nolva would like zap the gyno straight away, but this time its done nothing after 10 days even after adding adex half way through. 
 
i was getting worried it was progesterone related from the small doses of tren ace thats mixed in the TDT-250 shots, which is why i panicked into taking letro coz it kills all E2, but i dont have a puffy or pointy nipple just a small pea sized squidgy lump, which im sure is estrogen related.
 
****ing weird how the body works differently every time, cant count on it for ****! lol.. also i guess deep down i was hoping coz letro is such a powerful AI, like 20-30 times more powerful than Adex the drug would be effective almost immediately. tmo is day three, so lets see how it goes, also just noticed the letro is outta date by a few months, i bought it a few cycles ago and its been sitting in drawer for emergencies, it shouldn't have lost any potency should it ?
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W1LL
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/11 01:09:10 (permalink)
Letro has a very long half life , you need to take it for at least a week before you start to notice an effect. But you will still get it's effect for a while after you finish with it. Also tapering off it is a good idea to avoid any rebound effect.

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n i n j a
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/11 13:25:36 (permalink)
if it were sitting in direct sunlight or heat or something then potentially it may have lost a bit of strength as some drugs do but i doubt very much it would ahve lost much even in those instances.
 
i'm sure it's fine and like W1LL says the half life generally means you need to take it a good few days before you start to notice a change but when you do it will be swift.
 
ninja

AKA theweeninjaguy.  8 st 2 lb when I joined this site, I’ve gained 7 stone since then. Homer stands behind me as a reminder that a normal 44 year olds body is constantly chasing me. The only difference between me and homer, is MT and the gym!
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SexiSpartan
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/11 19:25:37 (permalink)
Ok thanks again Ninja, can feel a smidgen of difference on day 3 of letro, i think you are right 7-10 days it should nuke it, but i don't know if its me just being paranoid but during todays chest session i was noticeably vascular and drier, and i could feel tightness in the chest where the muscles attach to shoulder. Anyways not complaining as i was getting a lot of positive feedback from the gym guys lol, im approx 7% bodyfat and i think letro maybe a good med to use towards the end of a cutting phase at low doses to harden up. just a thought.
 
Thanks to Will to for the reply, appreciate it.
 
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n i n j a
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/11 20:52:25 (permalink)
you want to watch that connection to the shoulder man. the cycle you're on will increase your muscular strength far faster than your tendon strength and there's a risk you could rip the tendon as your confidence in your extra strength makes you pile the weight onto your lifts. slowly does it mate any wee niggles and back off a little as ripping a tendon will set you right back
 
it's easily done as on cycle you feel awesome
 
ninja

AKA theweeninjaguy.  8 st 2 lb when I joined this site, I’ve gained 7 stone since then. Homer stands behind me as a reminder that a normal 44 year olds body is constantly chasing me. The only difference between me and homer, is MT and the gym!
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SexiSpartan
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/11 21:00:18 (permalink)
Yeah i agree mate, im pretty good at self awareness like that, i usually flat bench around 140kg for 8 reps, and did a set of 25 reps on 100kg then went to 120kg for 15 and felt the tightness, abandon exercise was the protocol and move onto next exercise lol
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n i n j a
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/11 22:08:37 (permalink)
SexiSpartan
Yeah i agree mate, im pretty good at self awareness like that, i usually flat bench around 140kg for 8 reps, and did a set of 25 reps on 100kg then went to 120kg for 15 and felt the tightness, abandon exercise was the protocol and move onto next exercise lol




good move! 
 
i used to train with a guy (on here as fruitloop) who would injure himself every single cycle! 
 
ninja

AKA theweeninjaguy.  8 st 2 lb when I joined this site, I’ve gained 7 stone since then. Homer stands behind me as a reminder that a normal 44 year olds body is constantly chasing me. The only difference between me and homer, is MT and the gym!
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SexiSpartan
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/12 00:57:13 (permalink)
Is there any harm in taking Nolvadex with Letro ? ive got nolvadex sitting here also, and was thinking why not attack it from both end, Letro to krush the E2 levels down, and the nolvadex to starve the glands of any E2 at the moment ? they both work in diff ways so surely they should not interfere with each other ? 
 
was thinking if i wait 7-10 days for the letro to kick in and hope it takes effect, that will be a combined time of 3 weeks of first having the gyno symptoms, don't want to run the risk of it getting fibrous and hardening up, as i mentioned earlier all previous gyno flare ups i managed to resolve with a few days of Nolvadex in the past.
 
Paranoid Spartan
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n i n j a
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/12 08:27:00 (permalink)
taking the nolva now makes sense yeah as it will block the estrogen from having any effect.
 
ninja

AKA theweeninjaguy.  8 st 2 lb when I joined this site, I’ve gained 7 stone since then. Homer stands behind me as a reminder that a normal 44 year olds body is constantly chasing me. The only difference between me and homer, is MT and the gym!
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SexiSpartan
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/12 13:06:31 (permalink)
Cool, il jump on 20mg nolvadex ED while keeping 2.5mg Letro ED, hopefully by sat it should have started to make some effect or il up the nolva to 40mg and cruise on that with the letro. 
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SexiSpartan
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/12 22:51:45 (permalink)
Just doing some research, some forums that date back to 2004-2007 say that nolvadex effects the efficacy of adex and letro and should not be stacked with either, wonder if this has been debunked ? thinking about it logically they both have life of approx 5-7 days and both work in different ways ?
 
"Only bummer with the nolva is this, just 20mg of nolva can lower blood plasma levels of letro by 38%, and best guess is 28% for adex" .........is what i read on a google link to another forum.
 
also this was on iS.t.er.r.o.i.d.s "we can’t use Letrozole or Arimidex, as the Nolvadex will actually greatly decrease the blood plasma levels of them (28)!"
 
Another report i found by the author of Anabolic Steroids, Anthony Roberts....
 
"I’ve always been in favor of using Nolvadex during PCT, along with an aromatase inhibitor, because reducing estrogen levels has been positively correlated with an increase in testosterone (7) so in my mind, it’s be beneficial to increasetestosterone by as many mechanisms as possible while trying to recover your endogenous testosterone levels after a cycle. SO which aromatase inhibitor do we use? letro or A-dex? Well, why don’t we just keep using whichever one we used during the cycle, and add in some Nolvadex? Unfortunately, Nolvadex will significantly reduce the blood plasma levels of both Letrozole as well as Arimidex (8). So if we choose to use one of them with our Nolvadex on PCT, we’re throwing away a bit of money as the Nolvadex will be reducing their effectiveness" 
 
One last one lol, a clinical study .. "Preclinical studies using the intratumoral aromatase model for postmenopausal breast cancer"
 
"the combination of letrozole or anastrozole and tamoxifen was no more effective than either aromatase inhibitor alone. The agonistic effect of tamoxifen on the uterus was observed when it was given alone and when combined with the aromatase inhibitors. Furthermore, letrozole had the most potent antitumor activity when compared to other aromataseinhibitors and antiestrogens. No additional benefit was observed by combining these agents withtamoxifen over treatment with aromatase inhibitors alone"
 
Some info maybe you guys haven't seen, maybe i shouldn't use nolva with letro after all.... :S
 
P.s..  Im an academic student, use to research lol, maybe some extra info for you guys for future.
 
post edited by SexiSpartan - 2014/11/13 00:44:30
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chris182
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/13 07:50:38 (permalink)
Just Nolva and Hcg for my pct, never used an ai for pct just during cycle.

I dont particularly like taking Nolva, I've read that it leaves some kind of shadow effect of your cells with the potential to lead to cancer in the future. I've really no idea I only know what I've read, I'm not a biologist so hearing something like that is a little worrying.


But really what doesn't give you cancer these days, I read recently that barbecued food gives you cancer it won't stop me having a bbq
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SexiSpartan
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/16 18:56:43 (permalink)
Hi guys, well its now day 16 of gyno, ive been on letro 2.5mg ED for past 7 days, and i also added 80mg Nolvadex on Thur ED, noticed a slight difference, but nothing major. Ive literally been hitting 40mg Nolvadex since 1st Nov (day1 of symptoms) and now increased. 
 
The compound im using as mentioned earlier is ZMRC TDT-250 Test prop 75mg, Tren Ace 75mg, Masteron 100mg. Is there a chance this maybe Progesterone related gyno ? as its not shifting ? and maybe try adding in some dostinex ?
 
cheers guys
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silent rep
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/16 20:03:29 (permalink)
I'd stop the cycle if you need to take 2.5 mg of letro, 40mg of novla and now caber tbh, 2 of those are harsh drugs man..It's unlikely to be progesterone related "gyno" on that small dose of tren especially while taking letro....I take it you're not lactating?..Breasts have two components: alveoli and ducts. The alveoli are what secrete milk; they drain into ducts. Gynecomastia is the result of ductal hyperplasia, not alveolar hyperplasia. Oestrogen stimulates the ductal tissue, while progesterone stimulates the alveoli. Alveolar hyperplasia does not contribute to gyno

Fortes Fortuna Adiuvat
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SexiSpartan
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Re: 10 Days Gyno. Help 2014/11/16 20:08:08 (permalink)
No mate, not lactating, the nipple is flat and not even raised, its just to the side of the nipple where i have developed some small tissue, you cant see it, but i can feel its there if you know what i mean, i was planning a 6 week cycle, and tmo is my last shot, but since ive been on letro for 7 days at 2.5mg i was thinking of doing another week or two of prop on its own at 100mg EOD to help with the letro sides, ive bumped the nolva upto 80mg after reading on another forum that somebody did the same after his nolva wasnt doing nothing at 40mg ED, he did 80mg for 4 weeks and killed the gyno lump, i was thinking 80/60/40/20 with letro 2.5/1.25/ then last two weeks add clomid. 
 
Also 80mg Nolva for past 4 days, i can feel it has effected the lump, its seems a bit more softer, whereas the previous two weeks at 40mg was just same. Is 275mg Tren Ace a week consider a small dose ?
 
 
post edited by SexiSpartan - 2014/11/16 20:17:40
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