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2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle

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TonyStarks
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2002/07/28 11:28:01 (permalink)

2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle

I am going to outline my regime for the foreseeable future. I shall be alternating two very different programmes every four weeks with the intention of keeping my muscles guessing and shocking them into new and consistent growth.

I would encourage reasonably experienced trainees give this programme a try, I’m sure you’ll be happy with the results.

Programme 1 is a high intensity routine based on Paul Borresson’s theories; it incorporates pre-exhaustion and drop-set techniques with the sole aim of taking you to complete muscular failure. This is my preferred way of training and it requires a serious amount of intensity and effort – you should approach each and every workout with a ‘balls to the wall’ attitude.

Programme 2 is a more traditional three day split which focuses on getting bigger and stronger in the major compound exercises. In isolation this routine would be ideal for trainees of all levels.


PROGRAMME 1

Each workout follows a similar pattern of using an isolation movement to pre-exhaust the muscle and then a compound movement to take the muscle to complete failure.

For the purposes of this programme: -

PRE-EXHAUST sets are a single high rep set of around 40 reps to complete failure. The rep range should be used to identify the weight you use; do not bother to count reps, just keep going until you can do no more.

TRIPLE DROP-SETS are single, prolonged sets where the weight is reduced when you reach failure allowing you to complete further reps. Start heavy with a weight that allows 6-8 reps, reduce the weight when you are unable to perform any further reps, go to failure again and reduce the weight for a final time. You are aiming to complete 6-8 reps on each of the drops. Remember to take each drop to complete failure; the weight should be reduced no more than two times in a single set.

STRAIGHT SETS are traditional sets of 8-10 reps. Again, straight sets should be taken to failure.


The programme is split as follows: -

Mon – Chest
Tue – Quads/Hams/Calves
Wed – Rest
Thu – Shoulders/Triceps
Fri – Back/Traps
Sat – Rest
Sun - Rest


Monday (Chest)

Set 1. Incline Dumbbell Flyes. Pre-exhaust.

Set 2. Incline Dumbbell Flyes. Triple Drop-set.

Set 3. Bench Press. Straight Set

Set 4. Bench Press. Triple Drop Set.


Tuesday (Legs)

Set 1. Leg Extension. Pre-exhaust.

Set 2. Leg Extension. Triple Drop-set.

Set 3. Back Squat. Straight Set.*

Set 4. Hamstring Curl. Pre-exhaust.

Set 5. Hamstring Curl. Triple Drop-set.

Set 6. Stiff Legged Deadlift. Straight Set

Set 7. Calf Raise. Triple Drop-set

*Can be replaced by Hack Squat or Leg Press; if this is the case I recommend you use the triple drop-set technique.


Thursday (Shoulders/Triceps)

Set 1. Side Laterals. Pre-exhaust.

Set 2. Side Laterals. Triple Drop-set

Set 3. Seated Dumbbell Press. Straight Set.*

Set 4. Seated Dumbbell Press. Triple Drop-set*

Set 5. Machine Dips. Triple Drop-set**

*Can be replaced by any form of shoulder press.

**Can be replaced by any triceps exercise incorporating the triple drop-set technique.


Friday (Back/Biceps)

Set 1. Dumbbell Pullovers. Pre-exhaust*

Set 2. Dumbbell pullovers. Triple Drop-set*

Set 3. Wide-grip Pulldowns. Straight Set

Set 4. Wide-grip Pulldowns. Triple Drop-set

Set 5. Deadlift. Straight Set

Set 6. Hammer Curls. Triple Drop-set

*Can be replaced with machine pullovers or straight-arm pushdowns.


PROGRAMME 2

This programme incorporates the 5x5 training method which was originally developed by Reg Park. The 5x5 method involves completing 5 sets of 5 reps, using the same resistance. That's the goal. However, if you've chosen the proper weight, you won't be able to do 5 sets of 5, at least not initially.

Typically, if you've chosen the correct weight, the workout would look like this:

Set 1: 5x100 pounds
Set 2: 4x100 pounds
Set 3: 3x100 pounds
Set 4: 3x100 pounds
Set 5: 2x100 pounds

Remember, the goal of doing 5 sets of 5 reps is a hypothetical goal. As soon as you are able to complete 5 sets of 5 you should up the resistance for your next workout.

The programme is split as follows: -

Mon – Quads/Hams/Calves
Tue – Rest
Wed – Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
Thu – Rest
Fri – Back/Traps/Biceps
Sat – Rest
Sun - Rest


Monday (Quads/Hams/Calves)

1) Back Squat – 5x5

2) Stiff Legged Deadlift – 5x5

3) Dumbbell Lunges – 2x8

4) Calve Raise – 2x12 (optional)


Wednesday (Chest/Shoulders/Triceps)

1) Weighted Dips – 5x5

2) Incline Bench Press – 3x8

3) Upright Row – 2x8

4) Skull Crushers – 2x8 (optional)


Friday (Back/Traps/Biceps)

1) Deadlift – 5x5

2) Barbell Row (substitute with dumbbell or machine row if necessary) – 3x8

3) Close Grip Chins with Palms Facing (use pulldown machine if necessary) – 4x6

4) Olympic Barbell Curls (optional) – 2x8


I'm happy to answer any questions on this thread and would appreciate feedback from anyone who decides to give the programme a try.

Happy training!


TonyStarks@elitefitness.com

Edited by - TonyStarks on 28/07/2002 11:30:34

Edited by - TonyStarks on 28/07/2002 11:34:37
#1

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    USA DEALS
    Puttn
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/28 13:42:42 (permalink)
    thanks for that post tony -- im interested in trying this as i wanna alternate my routines as much as possible, im printing this off and im gonna work with it in a week or 2, after my workout today im gonna post a 3 days split i came up with as im going to college and wont be able to lift as much as i am now.. (2 days on 1 day off) and i would like you and anyone else to look at it and tell me what you think of it...

    #2
    oasis
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/28 14:23:20 (permalink)
    Its brilliant Tony, an well thought out covers all corners results will come of the back of this programme rest assured. One thing for sure your gonna work anD ache, oh boy a you gonna ache. Keep in touch.


    Oasis

    #3
    scruffy
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/28 15:32:02 (permalink)
    really like the look of programme 2 as this is my style of training, not so keen on programme 1 as this is not my cup of tea, but looks well sound and well thought out,if it incoporates Paul Borresson’s theories then it shopuld work wonders,,keep us posted how u get on as it looks interesting...

    scruffy

    scruffy2@hotmail.com
    #4
    TonyStarks
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/29 08:15:05 (permalink)
    oasis,

    I've tried all of the workouts from programme 1 in the past week and agree with you 100% - I haven't had DOMS like this in years and the pump is outrageous.

    scruffy,

    Will definately keep you all updated.


    TonyStarks@elitefitness.com
    #5
    MrBenn
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/29 12:48:14 (permalink)
    hi tony,

    i'm thinking of moving on from your generic 4 day split to a new 3 day split and programme 2 looks good. 2 questions...

    1) sets - i keep reading that anything from 6 to 12 sets per body part works well, but your programme has much less - for instance shoulders - i've been doing 10 sets in your 4 day split, but here there looks like hardly anything?

    2) while i do want to get stronger, i'm mostly after size. is this routine good for me, or should i be looking at a more conventional "3x8, 3 exercises per body part"-type routine?

    thanks!
    #6
    TonyStarks
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/29 15:48:25 (permalink)
    MrBenn,

    In answer to your questions: -

    1)There are more than enough sets in programme 2 provided you train with enough intensity. You may well benefit from the drop in volume after the 4 day split you have been following.

    2)If you're training for hypertrophy you cannot beat the style of training incorporated into programme 1 (IMO).


    TonyStarks@elitefitness.com
    #7
    Sheeps_Clothing
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/29 16:51:50 (permalink)
    tony i like both ur routines.... similar to the BFT system espoused by trevor smith...maybe you could throw a few rest pause reps in after reaching failure on the drop sets.. pain :) :)
    anyway.. i was considering ur second routine and the rest intervals between the sets seems to be the key. i was presuming 2-3 mins?
    can you clarify this?

    "pain the hard **** fact of life"
    #8
    TonyStarks
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/29 17:10:03 (permalink)
    badboy007,

    Glad you like it mate, I'd definately go for 2-3 minute rest intervals on programme 2.


    TonyStarks@elitefitness.com
    #9
    Lift2Live
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/29 17:42:20 (permalink)
    routines look good Tony... I'm going to give them or your hardcore programme a try when i finish my cutting phase, I'm currently using the routine ozzy outlined in his getting ripped posts

    lift2live

    #10
    Big-AL
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/29 18:23:28 (permalink)
    Like Scruffy i can see the merits of the first routine but wouldn't want to do it. That's just a personal thing though.
    As for the second one, well anything that's good enought for Reg Park is definately good enough for me!!!
    Both routines look very thorough and workable, i'm sure everyone here will benefit from seeing training in the longer term.
    Nice one Tony!
    Thanks for continuing to share your knowledge with us.
    AL

    "No such thing as spare time
    No such thing as free time
    No such thing as down time
    All you got is lifetime."

    "You run and hide for the mere fact that you feel inferior - BE Superior."

    Edited by - Big-AL on 29/07/2002 18:26:27
    #11
    TonyStarks
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/29 19:39:30 (permalink)
    Lift2Live,

    I'd take this programme over the hardcore programme I posted any day of the week.

    Big-AL,

    Thanks for the comments mate. It's interesting that neither Scruffy or yourself are keen on the style of training outlined in programme 1.

    I can understand the reluctance if your goals are strength driven but from a hypertrophy perspective I know no better way of training. I'm sure most who have tried working out this way would agree.

    It's certainly not done the many students of Mike Mentzer and Paul Borresson any harm - these guys knew what they were talking about, ask Dorian, lol.


    TonyStarks@elitefitness.com
    #12
    Big-AL
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/29 19:57:55 (permalink)
    Sorry if i wasn't clear, what i meant was that i wouldn't do the first routine (now) as muscle size as a primary goal is taking a back seat for me whilst strength has become my preoccupation.
    Both are great routines, i will be swtiching to a routine with similar aims to the first in the near future, as i posted a bit earlier.
    In practice i would enjoy worrking with the second routine of yours more, this is really what i am getting at.
    I'll learn to be more concise one day.....
    AL

    "No such thing as spare time
    No such thing as free time
    No such thing as down time
    All you got is lifetime."

    "You run and hide for the mere fact that you feel inferior - BE Superior."
    #13
    Big-AL
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/29 20:01:37 (permalink)
    Oops, i meant also to add that it is important for those newer to this to note the cyclical and ever changing nature of bodybuilding.
    It seems at first that you choose a routine that is supposed to work and then stick with it indefinately, whereas we can see from Tony's post that different routines are cycled to make the most of all the possible tools available.
    The long term often looks very different to the short.
    AL

    "No such thing as spare time
    No such thing as free time
    No such thing as down time
    All you got is lifetime."

    "You run and hide for the mere fact that you feel inferior - BE Superior."
    #14
    scruffy
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/29 22:51:16 (permalink)
    Tony,

    in a similiar boat to Al at the moment as i am cocentrating on strength,,i am a great follower of Mentzer and his training methods,,and also the revised methods that he used with Dorian, i have tried with great suscces his training regime of maxium effort and few sets, but it is not my primary goal at the moment,,like i said keep us posted as i am looking into going on a mass cycle in the new year and will be watching this intensly..

    scruffy


    #15
    Caba
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/31 00:52:54 (permalink)
    Tony the second workout looks great. I'm currently doing something like that i I was wondering if u can look at it and see if I'm lacking anything:

    Each rep is done in strict form with 4 seconds taken to complete the positive movement and 3 second to complete the negative (except in deadlift, squat…) There is minimal rest between sets and a bit of longer rest between exercises. After each training day 4 sets of Swiss ball crunches are done (4x15).

    Day 1: Chest and Triceps

    Flat DB Bench: 3x8-10 (first set warm-up)
    Incline DB Press: 2x8-10
    Dips: 1x15 (to failure)

    Close grip bench press: 2x4-6 (super slow; 10seconds up 10 down)

    Day 2: Rest

    Day 3: Back and Biceps

    Deadlift: 1x20
    Pullups: 1x8
    DB row: 2x8-10
    Upright row: 1x8-10

    Oly barbell curl 2x8-10

    Day 4: Rest

    Day 5: Shoulders and Legs

    Dumbbell presses: 3x8-10 (first set warm-up)
    Seated lateral raises: reverse dropsets 1x12, 10,8

    2 minutes on bike to warm-up
    Squats: 1x20
    SLD: 2x10-12
    2 minutes on bike to cool-down

    Each rep is done in strict form with 4 seconds taken to complete the positive movement and 3 second to complete the negative (except in deadlift, squat…) There is minimal rest between sets and a bit of longer rest between exercises. After each training day 4 sets of Swiss ball crunches are done (4x15).

    #16
    Lift2Live
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/31 05:10:31 (permalink)
    Tony I was wondering why in the programme 2, there's no military press, or any type of pressing movement for the shoulders?

    lift2live

    #17
    tino
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/31 14:11:10 (permalink)
    quote:

    I am going to outline my regime for the foreseeable future. I shall be alternating two very different programmes every four weeks with the intention of keeping my muscles guessing and shocking them into new and consistent growth.

    I would encourage reasonably experienced trainees give this programme a try, I’m sure you’ll be happy with the results.

    Programme 1 is a high intensity routine based on Paul Borresson’s theories; it incorporates pre-exhaustion and drop-set techniques with the sole aim of taking you to complete muscular failure. This is my preferred way of training and it requires a serious amount of intensity and effort – you should approach each and every workout with a ‘balls to the wall’ attitude.

    Programme 2 is a more traditional three day split which focuses on getting bigger and stronger in the major compound exercises. In isolation this routine would be ideal for trainees of all levels.


    PROGRAMME 1

    Each workout follows a similar pattern of using an isolation movement to pre-exhaust the muscle and then a compound movement to take the muscle to complete failure.

    For the purposes of this programme: -

    PRE-EXHAUST sets are a single high rep set of around 40 reps to complete failure. The rep range should be used to identify the weight you use; do not bother to count reps, just keep going until you can do no more.

    TRIPLE DROP-SETS are single, prolonged sets where the weight is reduced when you reach failure allowing you to complete further reps. Start heavy with a weight that allows 6-8 reps, reduce the weight when you are unable to perform any further reps, go to failure again and reduce the weight for a final time. You are aiming to complete 6-8 reps on each of the drops. Remember to take each drop to complete failure; the weight should be reduced no more than two times in a single set.

    STRAIGHT SETS are traditional sets of 8-10 reps. Again, straight sets should be taken to failure.


    The programme is split as follows: -

    Mon – Chest
    Tue – Quads/Hams/Calves
    Wed – Rest
    Thu – Shoulders/Triceps
    Fri – Back/Traps
    Sat – Rest
    Sun - Rest


    Monday (Chest)

    Set 1. Incline Dumbbell Flyes. Pre-exhaust.

    Set 2. Incline Dumbbell Flyes. Triple Drop-set.

    Set 3. Bench Press. Straight Set

    Set 4. Bench Press. Triple Drop Set.


    Tuesday (Legs)

    Set 1. Leg Extension. Pre-exhaust.

    Set 2. Leg Extension. Triple Drop-set.

    Set 3. Back Squat. Straight Set.*

    Set 4. Hamstring Curl. Pre-exhaust.

    Set 5. Hamstring Curl. Triple Drop-set.

    Set 6. Stiff Legged Deadlift. Straight Set

    Set 7. Calf Raise. Triple Drop-set

    *Can be replaced by Hack Squat or Leg Press; if this is the case I recommend you use the triple drop-set technique.


    Thursday (Shoulders/Triceps)

    Set 1. Side Laterals. Pre-exhaust.

    Set 2. Side Laterals. Triple Drop-set

    Set 3. Seated Dumbbell Press. Straight Set.*

    Set 4. Seated Dumbbell Press. Triple Drop-set*

    Set 5. Machine Dips. Triple Drop-set**

    *Can be replaced by any form of shoulder press.

    **Can be replaced by any triceps exercise incorporating the triple drop-set technique.


    Friday (Back/Biceps)

    Set 1. Dumbbell Pullovers. Pre-exhaust*

    Set 2. Dumbbell pullovers. Triple Drop-set*

    Set 3. Wide-grip Pulldowns. Straight Set

    Set 4. Wide-grip Pulldowns. Triple Drop-set

    Set 5. Deadlift. Straight Set

    Set 6. Hammer Curls. Triple Drop-set

    *Can be replaced with machine pullovers or straight-arm pushdowns.


    PROGRAMME 2

    This programme incorporates the 5x5 training method which was originally developed by Reg Park. The 5x5 method involves completing 5 sets of 5 reps, using the same resistance. That's the goal. However, if you've chosen the proper weight, you won't be able to do 5 sets of 5, at least not initially.

    Typically, if you've chosen the correct weight, the workout would look like this:

    Set 1: 5x100 pounds
    Set 2: 4x100 pounds
    Set 3: 3x100 pounds
    Set 4: 3x100 pounds
    Set 5: 2x100 pounds

    Remember, the goal of doing 5 sets of 5 reps is a hypothetical goal. As soon as you are able to complete 5 sets of 5 you should up the resistance for your next workout.

    The programme is split as follows: -

    Mon – Quads/Hams/Calves
    Tue – Rest
    Wed – Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
    Thu – Rest
    Fri – Back/Traps/Biceps
    Sat – Rest
    Sun - Rest


    Monday (Quads/Hams/Calves)

    1) Back Squat – 5x5

    2) Stiff Legged Deadlift – 5x5

    3) Dumbbell Lunges – 2x8

    4) Calve Raise – 2x12 (optional)


    Wednesday (Chest/Shoulders/Triceps)

    1) Weighted Dips – 5x5

    2) Incline Bench Press – 3x8

    3) Upright Row – 2x8

    4) Skull Crushers – 2x8 (optional)


    Friday (Back/Traps/Biceps)

    1) Deadlift – 5x5

    2) Barbell Row (substitute with dumbbell or machine row if necessary) – 3x8

    3) Close Grip Chins with Palms Facing (use pulldown machine if necessary) – 4x6

    4) Olympic Barbell Curls (optional) – 2x8


    I'm happy to answer any questions on this thread and would appreciate feedback from anyone who decides to give the programme a try.

    Happy training!


    TonyStarks@elitefitness.com

    Edited by - TonyStarks on 28/07/2002 11:30:34

    Edited by - TonyStarks on 28/07/2002 11:34:37



    sorry to bother you,
    i read your programme on muscletalk and on the first programme
    i do not know how long the rest periods should be?

    Set 1. Incline Dumbbell Flyes. Pre-exhaust.

    should i rest here and for how long?

    Set 2. Incline Dumbbell Flyes. Triple Drop-set.

    how long is this rest

    Set 3. Bench Press. Straight Set= do i only do one set?

    and finally this rest??

    Set 4. Bench Press. Triple Drop Set.






    Also on prgramme two is it ok to only do 2 sets for the whole of my tricep and bicep workout.

    4) Olympic Barbell Curls (optional) – 2x8

    4) Skull Crushers – 2x8 (optional)= i take this is because such intense compound exercises are being used!


    #18
    MR T
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/31 17:00:48 (permalink)
    i really like the programme and i will be doing it month about come monday and will try it to after christmas and access my gains, i was also concerned about the lack of bicep work, will probably add 3 sets of 8 myself, i wasnt keep on 1 set of squats and 1 set of bench, but when u read threw the second cycle u have enuf squats and weighted dips, also the machine pullovers i questioned but its worth a try and starting new cycle soon so a change will be good,

    mrt_muscletalk@hotmail.com
    please incude your board name in all e-mails,



    #19
    oasis
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    RE: 2 New Routines & Long Term Training Cycle 2002/07/31 17:20:49 (permalink)
    MR T, "I was also concerned about the lack of bicep work, will probably add 3 sets of 8 myself". Just curious blue was this biceps quote refering to programme 1. Please dont take this the wrong way but if you do the workout as Tony as laid down an you can do 3x8 after the triple drop, it means you was faking the intensity of the triple drop set. Im sure Tony will tell you the same.When you try them T you wont believe the pain.


    Oasis

    #20
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