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20 rep squats - science, art and speculation

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veganlifter
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2004/02/19 18:58:41 (permalink)
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20 rep squats - science, art and speculation

alright fellas, lately there have been good threads about rep ranges, rep speeds, importance of load, and progression.

Now how does 20 rep squats fit into this all? Of course by doing 20 rep squat routine you are using a smaller load than if you were doing 5x5 routine. Also, you would be going "past" failure so to speak with using a weight you can do for 10 reps and repping it 20 times with breathing pauses.

I'm interested in this because i've now done couple 20 rep squat sessions just for a laugh and i'm thinking if they are worth continuing for a wee while.

Anyone else done this routine?
#1

46 Replies Related Threads

    Robert
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/19 19:40:52 (permalink)
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    never tried it, what are your thoughts so far?
    rob
    #2
    Knighty
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/19 20:40:27 (permalink)
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    I've tried them once and got to about 15 before complete physical exhaustion...and that's with unloading the bar, cleaning it back up to the pins, loading it back up, and trying again, also with the big air gulps in between reps. I look forward to doing it in the future when I get back into things, but this time complete the full 20

    It's f*cking INSANE!
    #3
    GoldenArrow
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/19 21:42:33 (permalink)
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    Maybe try 20 rep bottom position squats to save the cleaning bit?
    #4
    gazdai
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/19 22:19:58 (permalink)
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    Totally agree with J5
    #5
    JohnOvManchester
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/19 22:35:14 (permalink)
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    Pointless, lighter weight needed.
    Lighter is going the wrong way, you are supposed to lift heavier.
    5x5 - 4x6 - 3x8 sort of thing IMHO is the best way to go.
    #6
    TheMasterPlan
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/19 23:42:16 (permalink)
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    I met a guy a few months ago, in his 40s i think, about 15 stone, used to compete at 17.5. He told me about the 20 rep squat thing, he swears by it as a great way to put mass on.
    He recommended doing them with a high calorie diet, and taking several pints of milk a day, each with a few raw eggs in it.
    When they invent risk-free raw eggs, i might give his scheme a go. (im not suggesting I wouldn't ever do 20-rep squats WITHOUT drinking raw eggs several times a day, just that the way he presented the scheme as a whole sounded appealing)
    #7
    veganlifter
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/20 08:53:24 (permalink)
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    interesting points. johnofmanc, thats the reason why i wanted to bring these up, because if you read any of the old timers and dinosaur training for instance it seems like every other exercise done with high reps or to failure are dismissed, exept the 20 rep squats! So thats why i'm interested in why there people whose opinion i highly respect seem to hold 20 rep squats in such different light.

    Though having said that, 3x8 reps and 1x20, you are probably using almost the same weight...

    I hear you J5, though i would not like to say i am one of those who is not giving 100% to my squats, especially if i have a spotter. I have now done 2 sessions with 20 rep squats and the feeling, exhaustion and muscle fatique is so different from 5x5 exhaustion that it took me by suprise. I actually didn't manage to get to 20 reps in either of the sessions, my cardiovascular condition is not good enough and eventhough i feel like i have some muscular strength left, i'm breating like a steam engine and almost passing out from that, lol! I'll give it couple more go's.

    Basically why i'm trying these is exacly why Knighty also tried them. They are TOO insane
    #8
    maccer
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/20 13:13:39 (permalink)
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    i used to hate squats, my legs are my weakest body part, I have done the 20 rep squats for about 12 weeks with 2 weeks of in between, I swear my legs have grown more then any other training I have done for them. I could be as J5 says because it forces you to put more effort in......and most people dont train legs as hard as they should....I find it a good way to kick my motivation up

    If you can squat a large load 20 times you are gonna have big legs ( this is Doggcrapps reasoning) anyone who squat 180kg 20 times is gonna be a beast.
    #9
    veganlifter
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/20 13:34:16 (permalink)
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    maccer, what kind of weights are you moving mate if you don't mind me asking? I'm working with 95 and 100kg at the mo with 1rm of 150kg, so granted, there's a big drop, but i figured i'll climb up quickly.
    #10
    jaybee
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/20 15:16:33 (permalink)
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    To move this debate on - anyone ever heard of/remember the
    'German Volume' system , which was 10 x 10 @75% 1RM.
    Absolute killer , personally it pumped the hell out of my legs and improved my overall cardio condition (proper squatting makes me breath harder than any pissy cardio excercise).IMO you can't fail to improve by using any hard regime under the squat bar , so long as you are working hard and not just 'going thro' the motions'. As I'm sure most of us have either slipped into or observed others doing.

    All just MO.
    #11
    maccer
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/24 11:37:15 (permalink)
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    mate what I do I pick a weight that for me is realatively heavy say 120Kg (crap I Know) I aim to bang out 8 reps after I have finished I rest for about 2mins then I put 90 kg on the bar (I am currently increasing by 2.5kgs each week) and bang out 20

    My legs are my weak part - I wrote on here probably 9 months ago how puny my legs are well that is no longer they are certainly not strong but they have imporved loads.
    #12
    Marso70
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/24 13:25:36 (permalink)
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    another spin on it could be, that those that respond favourably to them could have legs that are made up of mostly mixed or slow twitch fibers which are more responsive to endurance and longer load times (it has been noted in bodybuilding circles that the legs are more responsive to endurance type work as they carry us round all day so are used to a higher work capacity, same for the calves), if for example they use a 2/2 cadence then 20 reps would equate to about 80 seconds of load, add in rest between reps and you could be looking at over two minutes, if may just be that this is optimal for them. all that aside they are extremely brutal both physically and mentally and should be used on sparodic and cyclic approach for best results.
    #13
    veganlifter
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/24 16:40:41 (permalink)
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    just had my third session with this and it is getting "easier" now. Also, after the first session i could hardly walk for 3 days, now after the latest one on sunday i don't feel anything anymore. Bodys adaptation is a wonderful thing...
    #14
    Radio
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/24 17:30:53 (permalink)
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    20 rep squats do work IMO, and they would work for everybody reguardless. If you did'nt respond to 20 rep squats done to complete exaustion you would'nt be human! The muscles of the legs are bult to be more endurance muscles unlike the muscle of the upper body, thats why they responde beter to higher rep training. And anyway 20 rep squats are the hardest thing your ever gonna do in training IMO. Its such a drain on your body it cuases lots of hormones to be released. Your body is forced to grow and adapt or die with this kind of training.

    I do 15 reps squats, 10 reps to failure then 2 or 3 breaths and force out another 1 or 2 then repeat untill i reach 15. The times I went to 20 reps i had run to the toilet to be puke!! !I do 2 sets like this and thats me totally ****ed!. And i can tell you my legs are my best body part. I have huge stretch marks all over my arse and in thighs!
    #15
    T-Bone123
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/24 18:20:22 (permalink)
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    All I'm saying it was "lunch revisited" when I did them.
    #16
    Valhalla
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/24 21:44:56 (permalink)
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    I have always rated 20 rep squats for leg size as the un-mistakenly torture your legs!

    Personally i get to 15 reps and im exhausted! and push the last 5 out with shear grit as my body is screaming.

    i also take a similar approach for calves, 10,15,25,15,10 reps with no more than 15 secs between the sets... man its a killer
    #17
    shreklikedave
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/24 21:57:43 (permalink)
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    i remeber a similar thread and someone, i think it was frankie NY, said about doing the same thing but with a 5 rep max weight and going for 10 reps rest pause style

    Any thoughts on that?
    #18
    Robert
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/25 01:24:09 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Marso70

    another spin on it could be, that those that respond favourably to them could have legs that are made up of mostly mixed or slow twitch fibers which are more responsive to endurance and longer load times (it has been noted in bodybuilding circles that the legs are more responsive to endurance type work as they carry us round all day so are used to a higher work capacity, same for the calves), if for example they use a 2/2 cadence then 20 reps would equate to about 80 seconds of load, add in rest between reps and you could be looking at over two minutes, if may just be that this is optimal for them. all that aside they are extremely brutal both physically and mentally and should be used on sparodic and cyclic approach for best results.



    marso,

    whilst i agree that they should not be used as a staple of training, it is noted inBB circles, that type IIa fibres [slow titch] do not respond at all to weight training any more than type IIb [fast twitch], all that happens is the more yu need to rely on type IIb fibres[like in weightlifting as opposed to marathon runing] the more fibres convert. you cannot "biuld" type IIa fibres by weight training over type IIb, it ois non-senseical and just doesn't happen.

    jaybee,
    quote:
    proper squatting makes me breath harder than any pissy cardio excercise


    really like that quote mate.

    in general i think thewy are a waste of time... like frankies analogy,
    if 20rep@10RM worked, why wouldn't 10reps@5RM work better?? after all more load=more hypertrophy/strength gain!!
    rob
    #19
    TREBOR
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    RE: 20 rep squats - science, art and speculation 2004/02/25 06:03:02 (permalink)
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    Veganlifter 20 rep squats do work as ive said before in other threads but for some reason the low rep brigade refuse to accept this as it goes against everything they preach.
    #20
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