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A bit of advice for newbies.....

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Killer_Instinct
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2006/07/14 04:23:36 (permalink)
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A bit of advice for newbies.....

Before I get a load of abuse, i'm know expert, nor do I think the way I train is the best or the only way, but I do think its one of the more better ones. This is aimed at beginner's.

I see a lot of people on here using a 3, 4, or 5 day split and i'm still confused as to why!

Yes it may work for you, some thing works or some, but not for others.

Why not pick a handful of exercises, say:

squat
deadlift/sldl
bench press/dips
shoulder press
row/chin


Train them all either in one session or split in a upper/lower body split using either HIT style for one set OR 5x5, which ever you prefer, the key being adding weight to the bar each session.

Use either TT's bulking or cutting routine and ammed to you're likeing if needed.

Do these exercises once per week, add weight to the bar each week or ASAP, eat well, sleep well, and you're get big.

No curls, skull crushers you ask or leg curls? Tell me this....if you can Bench Press 300lbs x1, Row 250lbs x1, squat 400lbs x1 and deadlift 500x1, dont you think your have big arms, a thick chest and big legs?, trust me, as long as you're diet is in order, you will do.

As I said, i'm no expert, but I do know what works for most, forget isloation exercises, stop diluting you're effort, focus on compound's. Esp the squat and deadlift has an anabolic effect on the body, i.e it grows as a unit all over.


Forget about the magic pill, the key to getting big and strong is (usually) lifting heavy weights in GOOD FORM, with a good diet that suits you're needs, with plenty of rest. DONT FORGET TO REST, MUSCLES GROW WHEN YOU REST!

If I had to stick my neck out, if the exercies above sit you, I personally would adivse to, at 1st train on this routine once every 4 days, if you find your now growing, or getting stronger or find your sore still add an extra day, for total powerhouses, some need 10days rest, possibly more....

Remember the advice given here isnt set in stone, nor is it the be all and ed all, it's just my opinion.


Hope this helps.


Keep it strong
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    CoVetous
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    RE: A bit of advice for newbies..... 2006/07/14 10:45:37 (permalink)
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    i would use only those if i were a power lifter or moving from being a BBer to a PLer.

    Depending on how developed somones muscle is they may require using more range of lifts.

    I know you said newbies but i just had to make the comment :)

    If somones going to follow your routine advice, they should stick to it for atleast 12-16 weeks. Only then can you really say if its working for you or not. Routines should always have big compound movements even if your an above par BBer.
    #2
    john e big gunns
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    RE: A bit of advice for newbies..... 2006/07/14 11:56:30 (permalink)
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    Forget about the magic pill, the key to getting big and strong is (usually) lifting heavy weights in GOOD FORM, with a good diet that suits you're needs, with plenty of rest. DONT FORGET TO REST, MUSCLES GROW WHEN YOU REST!


    ______________________________________________________________

    All to often I see begginers try'in to use too heavier weights with bad form
    Get the movement right then add the resistance

    Bad form; Bad results
    #3
    Killer_Instinct
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    RE: A bit of advice for newbies..... 2006/07/14 16:28:15 (permalink)
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    Why would you only use them if you were a power lifter??????

    The exericses I listed hits every part of the body! i've been using them for the past 4yrs now and have gain approx 40-45bs of muscle with no drugs.

    You're correct when you say depending on how developed someones muscles are, hence why I aimed that at beginners, but even them most ppl abuse isolation work and get poor results from it, I see so many ppl around 10stone at avg height doing endless lateral raises and curls, I ask them why and they reply "because I want big biceps and shoulders"

    This is the point I was making.....the exercises above builds the foundation of strenght and muscles, only when you're big and strong should you even think about isolations to 'fill in the gaps', but of course this would depend on ones goals...

    Saying that, SOME isolations are VERY important to help keep you injury free like hyperextentions, rotaor cuff work, ab work, exercises to build stablising muscles such as side bends and also grip work, finger extensions...

    Like I said i'm not saying I have the perfect routine or anything, i'm just saying IMO what works for beginners but would also benifit more advanced ppl, but then again most ppl's routine on here contain the exercises I stated or some of them, everyone has there preferences, so if training 3hrs a day 6 days per week works for you, keep going, as long as your progressing.

    Good luck on you're goals
    #4
    MT2006
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    RE: A bit of advice for newbies..... 2006/07/14 16:45:57 (permalink)
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    Whats wrong with a three or four day split? Your telling me you can't include compound lifts into splits? If you did all them compounds on one day then the exercises near to the end of the session will suffer. Over training could become an issue as they are very taxing, so a low-meduim intensity would have to be used during sessions. Splits let you use high intensity as you have enough time to recover before the next time you train that muscle group. I understand what you are saying and I agree that compound lifts should be the back bone of nearly any routine. However I still think (imo) that some more isolated movements are needed in moderation to stimulate growth
    #5
    CoVetous
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    RE: A bit of advice for newbies..... 2006/07/14 19:47:14 (permalink)
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    sry i didnt mean i would exclude them as a BBer.

    large compound lifts are very important to everyone weight training.
    But as you develop as a body builder, you will need to include more lifts to continune developing the body.
    #6
    Killer_Instinct
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    RE: A bit of advice for newbies..... 2006/07/14 21:17:33 (permalink)
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    CoVetous – I agree

    Cat- Like I said it’s just my opinion, personally IMO 3-4 split is ok, but I prefer a full body routine OR a upper/lower split. People can gain well on a 3-4 day split, but usually its easier to over train e.g if you have legs and back day sperate, you will hit you’re upper back on both days, 1 with deads, the other with shrugs or rows, depending on what you use/do.

    Regarding you’re views on overtraining on a full body, this is why I would advocate using a fullbody every 4-5days or more, but yes I agree with you that it COULD lead to a low-medium intensity, this is why I use less exercises, squat, dead, bench, press, row…IMO and what I do, I can hit them hard in one routine, HIT can be good for this, with just one set for each.

    I just think the disadvantages with splits of say 4 days, is 1. you spend more days in the gym and hence have less time for a life outside of the gym.
    2. You may have an overlap of exercises, IMO the only way you can not over lap exercises (and still you might), is to have a upper, lower body split.

    For example in a push, pull, legs…usually legs would be squats and deads….pull, would have rows in…so, your training your upperback twice, forearms etc.

    Another example could be the chin ups hits the abs too….

    In saying I understand there isn’t ‘one size that fits all’ routine, and even a 6 day routine might work for some ppl…I know Wiffers uses a 5 day now and he’s doing great, I personally like a full body using HIT, using 5 compound movements which hits the body hard, doing this I can get in and out of the gym between 50-80mins and that’s me done for 5-7days.

    In saying this I understand what might work for me, may not work for others, but may work better for others too, I think its all about finding what you like and what you’re body needs to grow.

    I also agree with your isolation theory.
    I know chins and rows hits the biceps hard and they grow and grow pretty well, but I do like using the good old curl from time to time. The compounds listed above would build 90% of the total musculature of the body, so if youre a bodybuilder or want to focus on a certain part of the body then yes some isolations would be need, but not until you're out fo the beginner stage and the focus should always be on the compounds IMO.

    I think the key point everyone agrees with here and beginners should note that compounds are key and without them, your highly unlikely to get big and strong because of the sheer amount weight handled.

    I’m off for a few days now, so hope to too see you next week sometime!

    Thanks for you’re all you're comments.



    #7
    MT2006
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    RE: A bit of advice for newbies..... 2006/07/14 21:58:00 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Killer_Instinct

    CoVetous – I agree

    Cat- Like I said it’s just my opinion, personally IMO 3-4 split is ok, but I prefer a full body routine OR a upper/lower split. People can gain well on a 3-4 day split, but usually its easier to over train e.g if you have legs and back day sperate, you will hit you’re upper back on both days, 1 with deads, the other with shrugs or rows, depending on what you use/do.

    Agreed, there are many routines out there which have their advantages and disadvantages. Its up to the user to find one that they responed well to, and fits into their liftstyle.
    I would say its actully easier to overtrain on a full body then a split. The example you give with the deadlifts is abit off as alot of poeple use deads in their back routine rather then for targeting their hamstrings, which SLDL would be the better choice. SLDL will hit your back to a certain degree but by using perfect form you should be really hitting the hamstrings to a greater degree. This is further overcome by having pull day on the oppisite end of the week then legs, which alot of people advice on here.


    Regarding you’re views on overtraining on a full body, this is why I would advocate using a fullbody every 4-5days or more, but yes I agree with you that it COULD lead to a low-medium intensity, this is why I use less exercises, squat, dead, bench, press, row…IMO and what I do, I can hit them hard in one routine, HIT can be good for this, with just one set for each.

    I take your point, but you are still taking energy away from lifts and spreading it over a whole host of compound exercises. If a beginner uses a fullbody they could easily overtrain as they feel they need to workout more then once every 5 days, and push themselves hard during each session, intensity and smartly planning your workouts is something that comes with experience imo

    I just think the disadvantages with splits of say 4 days, is 1. you spend more days in the gym and hence have less time for a life outside of the gym.
    2. You may have an overlap of exercises, IMO the only way you can not over lap exercises (and still you might), is to have a upper, lower body split.

    Upper, lower splits are good I agree. Again overlapping can be overcome via routine planning like I said above, putting pull and legs on different ends of the week. I understand what your saying and it could be an issue

    For example in a push, pull, legs…usually legs would be squats and deads….pull, would have rows in…so, your training your upperback twice, forearms etc.

    Again, deads imo are more of a back exercises and used during back sessions.

    Another example could be the chin ups hits the abs too….

    Ok, well almost every exercise you do hits the abs to a certain degree as it is a stabilsing muscle

    In saying I understand there isn’t ‘one size that fits all’ routine, and even a 6 day routine might work for some ppl…I know Wiffers uses a 5 day now and he’s doing great, I personally like a full body using HIT, using 5 compound movements which hits the body hard, doing this I can get in and out of the gym between 50-80mins and that’s me done for 5-7days.

    Agree, only way is to try out different routines to see what works for you

    In saying this I understand what might work for me, may not work for others, but may work better for others too, I think its all about finding what you like and what you’re body needs to grow.

    I also agree with your isolation theory.
    I know chins and rows hits the biceps hard and they grow and grow pretty well, but I do like using the good old curl from time to time. The compounds listed above would build 90% of the total musculature of the body, so if youre a bodybuilder or want to focus on a certain part of the body then yes some isolations would be need, but not until you're out fo the beginner stage and the focus should always be on the compounds IMO.

    We could argue all day and night about this as there are beneifts and drawbacks to including isolated movements. imo some isolated exercises should be used in a routine, but fitted in smartly around compound lifts which should be the back bone of the routine

    I think the key point everyone agrees with here and beginners should note that compounds are key and without them, your highly unlikely to get big and strong because of the sheer amount weight handled.

    Yes

    I’m off for a few days now, so hope to too see you next week sometime!

    Cya dude

    Thanks for you’re all you're comments.





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