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A couple Of 5x5 Questions ?

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Jazz
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2004/01/02 00:29:11 (permalink)

A couple Of 5x5 Questions ?

On 5x5 it is recommended that the exercises are changed every 12 weeks. I like to try new exercises about once a month. Would this be detrimental ?

Does anyone use 'weider Principles' with 5x5 ? I mean can using supersets and negatives help overcome plateaus ?

Cheers

Jazz
#1

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    Frankie NY
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/02 00:46:26 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Jazz

    On 5x5 it is recommended that the exercises are changed every 12 weeks. I like to try new exercises about once a month. Would this be detrimental?


    Yes. If you change your exercises too frequently your muscles, tendons, ligaments, and CNS don't have enough time to adapt to a constant stimulus and get stronger. My experience is that changing about every 12 weeks is good. Every 4 weeks is definitely too frequently.

    quote:

    Does anyone use 'weider Principles' with 5x5 ? I mean can using supersets and negatives help overcome plateaus?


    The best strategy for overcoming plateaus is to change your set and rep scheme slightly like going from 5x5 to 3x3 or to change your exercises. I've had much more success helping trainees break through plateaus using these techniques than supersets and negatives. Injury risk goes up greatly with negatives, so be careful with these. In fact, I think bodybuilders and powerlifters can achieve their goals without every doing a single negative in their lives.
    #2
    Jazz
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/03 00:29:47 (permalink)
    Thanks Frankie, your advise is sound....

    I really enjoy 5x5 but found it difficult to recover so for the meantime I've switched to 3x10. The interesting thing I've found is that my body is so used to doing 5 reps that I had to drop the weight by at least 10 kg when doing sets of 10 reps

    Is this normal ? I've just had 2 weeks off so it might be that ?

    I also read somewhere that doing high rep sets is more suited to endurance so maybe that's why I find doing ten 10 rep sets hard. (I simply haven't trained like that for a while so my body is not used to it).

    I also think that when I return to 5x5 I'll do just 3 work sets + 2 warm-ups, because I find 5 work sets too much,(for deadlifts and squats at least).

    What are your Opinions ?

    Thanks

    Jazz
    #3
    Frankie NY
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/03 03:38:15 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Jazz

    I really enjoy 5x5 but found it difficult to recover so for the meantime I've switched to 3x10.


    OOOuuugghhh (that's the sound of me vomiting on the floor next to my desk). 3x10??? If you can't recover from 5 work sets, then try 4 or if you must, 3 work sets, but don't go back to doing 10 rep sets. That's like taking 10 steps backwards.

    quote:

    The interesting thing I've found is that my body is so used to doing 5 reps that I had to drop the weight by at least 10 kg when doing sets of 10 reps. Is this normal ? I've just had 2 weeks off so it might be that?


    Is this normal? Of course! There's a big difference between a 5 rep weight and a 10 rep weight. The 2 weeks off may explain some of it, but it's mostly the difference between 5 and 10 rep weights.

    quote:

    I also think that when I return to 5x5 I'll do just 3 work sets + 2 warm-ups, because I find 5 work sets too much,(for deadlifts and squats at least).


    That's fine. Give it a shot. I think you'll still make good strength gains from only 3 work sets. The question will be mass gains. You'll have to wait and see how your body responds.
    #4
    IrishRunt
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/03 04:22:59 (permalink)
    i just started 5x5 and i think it's great. a few warm-up sets and then start the 5x5. i like this better than pyramiding.
    #5
    Dano
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/03 07:08:36 (permalink)
    I think if you start doing 3x5 you'll enjoy it better. I know i cant do 5x5 for very long anymore because i start to go stail on it because its just too many sets at the same weight. Once you progress for a while and you strengthen your connective tissue you can then start to give singles, doubles, and triples a go as these are real fun.

    If you are pretty new to weight lifting and you are working hard on 5x5 or 3x5 you shouldnt be anything but thrilled with the results. I mean who doesnt like adding atleast 5lbs a week??????
    #6
    Big-Ron
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/03 10:19:02 (permalink)
    5x5 is where its at, its so simplistic that people think that its too easy too work, they think you need to do endless sets of curls and bench presses to get big.

    In 2 months after after a shoulder injury lay off (7 months) i have exceeded all my existing poundages and am using form that is almost perfect (3/3 rep cadence) I know there is no perfect routine but this is bloody close!

    Only exercise that im struggling with is chins, but the problem is that they really screw up my shoulder complex, im just planning on getting my shoulder to a level that it is my strongest area then hopefully i can re-introduce chins.

    Cheers Frankie for enlightening us on the 5x5 system, its been a godsend!!
    #7
    Nautilian
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/03 10:46:37 (permalink)
    Franky just a question?

    Can 5x5 be applied to any work out, reason being, I took your advice about using your suggested workout, I am just finishing a 12 week session of cashmans workout before switch to yours.

    Why is 5x5 better than other programs?

    Thanks
    Ele
    #8
    ONE SMART COOKIE
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/03 11:16:52 (permalink)
    This 5x5 system is a good way to go for solid gains its also as old as
    the hills so well proven,reg park used it a lot when he won the universe
    a good few years ago.
    #9
    Boxer
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/03 11:58:24 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Nautilian

    Franky just a question?

    Can 5x5 be applied to any work out, reason being, I took your advice about using your suggested workout, I am just finishing a 12 week session of cashmans workout before switch to yours.



    Thanks
    Ele


    5x5 can be applied to any workout but there is good and there is bad exercises. Isn't best to use the good exercises?
    #10
    Jezzcb
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/04 04:01:21 (permalink)
    I just started doing 5X5 but by the end of the fourth and fifth set I could not get the last one or two reps out. Should I lower the weight or stick to my guns and keep working at it? Also if I changed to 4 sets could I do the first with a barbell curl, second hammers, 3rd barbell and then hammers again?
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    Frankie NY
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/04 16:26:04 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Jezzcb

    I just started doing 5X5 but by the end of the fourth and fifth set I could not get the last one or two reps out. Should I lower the weight or stick to my guns and keep working at it?


    The weight you're currently using is way too heavy. Lower it by about 15%. When you first start out on 5x5, you want to be able to add weight to each exercise fairly easily. It's not that you're trying to make your initial workouts too easy. You're just trying to build some momentum.

    quote:

    Also if I changed to 4 sets could I do the first with a barbell curl, second hammers, 3rd barbell and then hammers again?



    No. You only want to do 3 exercises per workout, 5 sets per exercise.
    #12
    Jezzcb
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/04 23:04:55 (permalink)
    Thanks for the advice.
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    IrishRunt
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/04 23:36:00 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Frankie NY

    quote:
    Originally posted by Jezzcb

    I just started doing 5X5 but by the end of the fourth and fifth set I could not get the last one or two reps out. Should I lower the weight or stick to my guns and keep working at it?


    The weight you're currently using is way too heavy. Lower it by about 15%. When you first start out on 5x5, you want to be able to add weight to each exercise fairly easily. It's not that you're trying to make your initial workouts too easy. You're just trying to build some momentum.



    ok frankie, here's a question for you. i have the same problem about not being able to hammer out on the 4th set all of the reps sometimes. i started at a weight that i knew that i could get 5x5 and then increased it by 5lbs and was able to get that 5x5. so, i increased the weight again by 5lbs and that's where the problem is. on the 4th set, i sometimes can't get all 5, i have to have a little bit of help. i say sometimes cause it just depends on the day whether or not i can get all 5 or not. what should i do then? if i drop the weight i will be able to get 5x5 again or should i just stick with this and wait?
    #14
    Dano
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/05 04:34:35 (permalink)
    IrishRunt,

    If youve been weightlifting for some time and have progressed weight wise for a while then 5 sets of such a heavy weight might be a bit much. For me i cannot handle 5 work sets at the same weight for 5 reps or else i wouldnt be working very hard on the first couple sets. As ive moved up in weight over some time ive noticed that less sets suit me much better. Like now when doing sets of 5 reps i like to do 3x5, 2x5 and sometimes 1 set of 5.
    #15
    Frankie NY
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/05 06:07:37 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by IrishRunt

    ok frankie, here's a question for you. i have the same problem about not being able to hammer out on the 4th set all of the reps sometimes. i started at a weight that i knew that i could get 5x5 and then increased it by 5lbs and was able to get that 5x5. so, i increased the weight again by 5lbs and that's where the problem is. on the 4th set, i sometimes can't get all 5, i have to have a little bit of help. i say sometimes cause it just depends on the day whether or not i can get all 5 or not. what should i do then? if i drop the weight i will be able to get 5x5 again or should i just stick with this and wait?


    You shouldn't expect to be able to add 5 pounds every week to every or to any exercise. People who haven't been training that long, people who were dramatically overtraining before doing a 3 day 5x5 split, or people who had a very poor diet before beginning the program can sometimes add 5 pounds a week every week for their first cycle. But the majority of people will stay at the same weight on some exercises for 2 or 3 weeks before moving up.

    There are also other factors like sleep, diet, mood, energy level, change in workout time, etc. that can cause variations from week to week. I wouldn't worry about it for now.
    #16
    Don_al
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/05 14:11:21 (permalink)
    What are your routines like when you are training 5x5?, what do you train together? It's something i have never tried but iam interested.
    #17
    BigDirk
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/05 21:00:47 (permalink)
    Why is it bad to increase the reps on each of the 5 sets? My football team program has 5x5, but with an increase in weight after each set. Is this a bad thing? Why?
    #18
    Frankie NY
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/05 22:57:33 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by BigDirk

    Why is it bad to increase the reps on each of the 5 sets?


    Because if you can increase the number of reps, then the weight isn't heavy enough.

    quote:

    My football team program has 5x5, but with an increase in weight after each set. Is this a bad thing? Why?


    Because if you can increase the weight each set, then the weight isn't heavy enough and you're shortchanging yourself by having too easy a workout on the first few sets.
    #19
    BigDirk
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    RE: A couple Of 5x5 Questions ? 2004/01/06 01:37:53 (permalink)
    cheers frankie...thanks for the advice
    #20
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