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A strange physics question.

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jack5r
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2014/11/28 10:24:49 (permalink)

A strange physics question.

I did this a while ago and then questoned it.

I wanted an ice cold protein shake and the blender was broken so I used some ice cubes. I wanted to make the drink cold as quickly as possible.

My first thought was, I'll put the ice cubes in the shake and leave it in the freezer for 10-15 mins.

Then I thought maybe this would be slower, as although the freezer is cooling down the water, the ice wouldn't melt as fast.

I now think leaving it out would be faster. I know the difference would be minute and not something worth thinking about, but now I'd like to know which would be quicker?

Body Weight - 83kg 
Bench - 145kg
Squat - 190kg
Clean & Jerk - 129kg
Snatch - 98kg  
 
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    jack5r
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    Re: A strange physics question. 2014/11/28 10:31:42 (permalink)
    Thinking about it I guess it would entirely dependent on the quantitty of ice used.

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    wolverine83
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    Re: A strange physics question. 2014/11/28 10:54:40 (permalink)
    Isn't there some weird thing that if you put hot water in the freezer it freezes quicker than cold? 
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    Trapman
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    Re: A strange physics question. 2014/11/28 11:06:02 (permalink)
    Crushed ice works a treat, Slush puppy style 

    Traps
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    jack5r
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    Re: A strange physics question. 2014/11/28 11:14:09 (permalink)
    For the record, I'm purely interested on which would be faster, not for other ideas on making it cold lol.

    Body Weight - 83kg 
    Bench - 145kg
    Squat - 190kg
    Clean & Jerk - 129kg
    Snatch - 98kg  
     
    #5
    doc
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    Re: A strange physics question. 2014/11/28 12:20:57 (permalink)
    wolverine83
    Isn't there some weird thing that if you put hot water in the freezer it freezes quicker than cold? 


    no , steam freezes quicker than cold water due to the water droplets having a higher availability to cold water sat there in a glass
     

     
    as seen here
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    sillynarbie
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    Re: A strange physics question. 2014/11/28 12:41:00 (permalink)
    If a body at temperature A is put in contact with a body at temperature B such that the temperature of the body A is higher than that of temperature B, then heat energy will flow from body A to body B until the temperatures of body A and body B are equal and no heat energy flows between them.
     
    If you just put the ice cubes in the drink, let's say they're exactly 0 and your drink is 20 degrees. Then upon equilibration your drink is 18 degrees (say) and the ice cubes have melted.
     
    If you put the whole lot in the freezer, at -15 degrees, we'll assume your freezer acts as a temperature resevoir, that is, its temperature doesn't change no matter what you put in the freezer, then your drink will keep cooling until its temperature is the same as the freezer, which in this case is -15 degrees.
     
    So the freezer will undoubtedly make your drink cooler. You basically answered your own question when you said the ice cubes wouldn't melt as fast in the drink in the freezer. Why? Because the drink will be cooler...
     
    In terms of speed, if you consider some simple models such as Newton's law of cooling or Fourier's law, they're proportional to the temperature difference, and so the larger the temperature difference, the faster the cooling. Therefore the freezer wins again.
     
    Physics gets a bit more complicated when things change phase (ice to water to steam and vice versa) but in general the above holds.
    post edited by sillynarbie - 2014/11/28 12:45:16
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    jack5r
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    Re: A strange physics question. 2014/11/28 14:41:32 (permalink)
    Ok cheers that makes sense.
    My thinling was initially the ice cubes may melt faster at room temp, resulting in dilution with colder water. I understand now cheers.

    Body Weight - 83kg 
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    Squat - 190kg
    Clean & Jerk - 129kg
    Snatch - 98kg  
     
    #8
    sillynarbie
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    Re: A strange physics question. 2014/11/28 16:16:01 (permalink)
    The ice cubes will melt faster at room temp, but the overall temp of your ice + drink mixture will be higher than if you stuck it in the freezer.
     
    Imagine the situation where your ice cubes are in your drink but don't melt at all - how can that happen? Well, it can happen if your drink is the same temperature as the ice initially i.e. 0 degrees.
     
    So the fact your ice cubes melt less is exactly what you want to achieve.
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    Aaron Hallett
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    Re: A strange physics question. 2014/11/28 17:50:07 (permalink)
    the ice cubes will melt in the drink even when the glass is placed into the freezer.
    reason being, it will take a period of time for the body of fluid (your drink) to reach the same ambient temperature of the freezer.
    as the body of fluid is say ambient room temp (22-24C?) when it goes into the freezer, the ice cubes will melt until the body of fluid reaches near the ambient of the freezer (-1C?) after X period of time.
     
    If it takes 5-10 mins for the body of water to cool, the ice will melt for this period of time, albeit on an exponential scale temp vs time for easy argument's sake.
     
    After 10 mins with your drink left outside the freezer, the ice will take say 10 mins to melt totally.
     
    After 10 mins with your drink left inside the freezer, the ice will be at say 30% of the original size after 10 mins but will reduce no more until say after 20-30 mins the entire body of fluid (your drink) is frozen solid.
    post edited by Aaron Hallett - 2014/11/28 17:51:16

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