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ATd standalone

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Daari
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2007/06/19 01:54:11 (permalink)
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ATd standalone

will it increase my test levels to a substantial degree?

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    TGF 3
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    RE: ATd standalone 2007/06/19 03:54:55 (permalink)
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    hard to say, effects differ in different ppl, wat supp you thinkin of?
    Sonicology
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    RE: ATd standalone 2007/06/19 04:29:10 (permalink)
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    It's a strong aromatase inhibitor so it will increase serum levels of testosterone, however many users (myself included) experience loss of libido whilst taking it. I suspect this is due to it preventing test from binding to the androgen receptor in the brain (study below);

    Horm Behav. 1989 Mar;23(1):10-26.


    Effects of ATD on male sexual behavior and androgen receptor binding: a reexamination of the aromatization hypothesis.

    Kaplan ME, McGinnis MY.

    Department of Anatomy, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, CUNY, New York 10029.

    The aromatization hypothesis asserts that testosterone (T) must be aromatized to estradiol (E2) to activate copulatory behavior in the male rat. In support of this hypothesis, the aromatization inhibitor, ATD, has been found to suppress male sexual behavior in T-treated rats. In our experiment, we first replicated this finding by peripherally injecting ATD (15 mg/day) or propylene glycol into T-treated (two 10-mm Silastic capsules) or control castrated male rats. In a second experiment, we bilaterally implanted either ATD-filled or blank cannulae into the medial preoptic area (MPOA) of either T-treated or control castrated male rats. With this more local distribution of ATD, a lesser decline in sexual behavior was found, suggesting that other brain areas are involved in the neurohormonal activation of copulatory behavior in the male rat. To determine whether in vivo ATD interacts with androgen or estrogen receptors, we conducted cell nuclear androgen and estrogen receptor binding assays of hypothalamus, preoptic area, amygdala, and septum following treatment with the combinations of systemic T alone. ATD plus T, ATD alone, and blank control. In all four brain areas binding of T to androgen receptors was significantly decreased in the presence of ATD, suggesting that ATD may act both as an androgen receptor blocker and as an aromatization inhibitor. Competitive binding studies indicated that ATD competes in vitro for cytosol androgen receptors, thus substantiating the in vivo antiandrogenic effects of ATD. Cell nuclear estrogen receptor binding was not significantly increased by exposure to T in the physiological range. No agonistic properties of ATD were observed either behaviorally or biochemically. Thus, an alternative explanation for the inhibitory effects of ATD on male sexual behavior is that ATD prevents T from binding to androgen receptors.



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    daKensta
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    RE: ATd standalone 2007/06/19 06:43:03 (permalink)
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    tsk
    post edited by daKensta - 2007/06/19 07:39:30

    SQ:170 BP:172.5 DL:270 OHP:120(strict)



    JMA
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    RE: ATd standalone 2007/06/19 09:36:49 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Sonicology

    It's a strong aromatase inhibitor so it will increase serum levels of testosterone, however many users (myself included) experience loss of libido whilst taking it. I suspect this is due to it preventing test from binding to the androgen receptor in the brain (study below);

    Horm Behav. 1989 Mar;23(1):10-26.


    Effects of ATD on male sexual behavior and androgen receptor binding: a reexamination of the aromatization hypothesis.

    Kaplan ME, McGinnis MY.

    Department of Anatomy, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, CUNY, New York 10029.

    The aromatization hypothesis asserts that testosterone (T) must be aromatized to estradiol (E2) to activate copulatory behavior in the male rat. In support of this hypothesis, the aromatization inhibitor, ATD, has been found to suppress male sexual behavior in T-treated rats. In our experiment, we first replicated this finding by peripherally injecting ATD (15 mg/day) or propylene glycol into T-treated (two 10-mm Silastic capsules) or control castrated male rats. In a second experiment, we bilaterally implanted either ATD-filled or blank cannulae into the medial preoptic area (MPOA) of either T-treated or control castrated male rats. With this more local distribution of ATD, a lesser decline in sexual behavior was found, suggesting that other brain areas are involved in the neurohormonal activation of copulatory behavior in the male rat. To determine whether in vivo ATD interacts with androgen or estrogen receptors, we conducted cell nuclear androgen and estrogen receptor binding assays of hypothalamus, preoptic area, amygdala, and septum following treatment with the combinations of systemic T alone. ATD plus T, ATD alone, and blank control. In all four brain areas binding of T to androgen receptors was significantly decreased in the presence of ATD, suggesting that ATD may act both as an androgen receptor blocker and as an aromatization inhibitor. Competitive binding studies indicated that ATD competes in vitro for cytosol androgen receptors, thus substantiating the in vivo antiandrogenic effects of ATD. Cell nuclear estrogen receptor binding was not significantly increased by exposure to T in the physiological range. No agonistic properties of ATD were observed either behaviorally or biochemically. Thus, an alternative explanation for the inhibitory effects of ATD on male sexual behavior is that ATD prevents T from binding to androgen receptors.






    When ATD was first released there was talk of it being used to minimise supression whilst on cycle for the reasons shown in the study above (binding the AR in the brain should reduce negative feedback). Its just a shame it has a negative impact on libido for some.
    beholder69
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    RE: ATd standalone 2007/06/19 10:29:05 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Adil

    will it increase my test levels to a substantial degree?



    Yes,it will and actually results from 1 month use at minimum dosage will be posted this afternoon. As for the libido people seem to have different reactions. Personally, mine rose the first 10 days, then started falling. At day 15 I did have less libido than when I started but after 4-5 days this balanced and in general I had slightly less libido than in the beginning. But this was not problem at all. Ok, I might not have been dreaming of sex all day long (I never did anyway tbh) , but when I started "playing" everything was more than fine


    EDIT: How much it will raise your test though will depend on how high your estrogen levels (which are produced by aromatization) are
    post edited by beholder69 - 2007/06/19 11:16:51
    Daari
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    RE: ATd standalone 2007/06/19 11:18:16 (permalink)
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    and actually results from 1 month use at minimum dosage will be posted this afternoon


    so you did a month at 25mg ED?

    I'm not bothered about the loss of libido at all, TBH i'd welcome it as i'm WAY to horny

    So, should i go with Ultra HOTter or Rebound XT?
    beholder69
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    RE: ATd standalone 2007/06/19 11:25:44 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Adil

    and actually results from 1 month use at minimum dosage will be posted this afternoon


    so you did a month at 25mg ED?



    Yes,exactly


    ORIGINAL: Adil
    I'm not bothered about the loss of libido at all, TBH i'd welcome it as i'm WAY to horny

    lol



    ORIGINAL: Adil
    So, should i go with Ultra HOTter or Rebound XT?


    RXT is what I've tried. It obviously works but for the exact results (RXT was accompanied with everything I could naturally do to increase test though-and I will continue doing so), we will know this evening I guess.

    On the other hand stavross -who certainly knows his stuff- recommended Ultra hotter to me as it seems not to lower libido, so I'll give it a try after a month or so, along with Activate and Lean Xtreme or Retain 2(haven't completely made my mind on the last one yet)

    But if you have too high of a libido, go with RXT;it works
    post edited by beholder69 - 2007/06/19 11:33:25
    Daari
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    RE: ATd standalone 2007/06/19 11:59:29 (permalink)
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    is there a log of your standalone RXT?

    Also, when did you take your cap?...most seem to take it before bed
    beholder69
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    RE: ATd standalone 2007/06/19 12:07:22 (permalink)
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    No log, I had blood tests before starting and had blood tests on the last day,the results of which I'm taking today,so I'll start a before and after thread. I think it really helped me with fat loss as well. Dropped (roughly) 7% in fat in 5 weeks with LBM falling just a little bit

    I took it in the late evening, usually -but not always- with some fat
    Daari
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    RE: ATd standalone 2007/06/19 12:20:20 (permalink)
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    yeh, an increase in test does help to lower bf%

    I'm just interested in breaking through my plateau. I've been benching/deadlifting the same weight for almost 5 months now! It's really getting on my nerves!
    Daari
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    RE: ATd standalone 2007/06/19 12:27:09 (permalink)
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    forgot to mention.....is an AI safe to use for a 19 year old (20 in 1-2 months)?
    beholder69
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    RE: ATd standalone 2007/06/19 12:30:29 (permalink)
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    Ah, I know what you're talking about. I used to have the same prob with benching as well. You could give it a try. If you do, good luck!
    beholder69
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    RE: ATd standalone 2007/06/19 12:36:00 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Adil

    forgot to mention.....is an AI safe to use for a 19 year old (20 in 1-2 months)?



    Hmm... TBH mate although it can be labeled as "safe" (although no long-term effects have been tested as it's a relatively new substance), I wouldn't use anything that would change my hormonal profile if I didn't need to(or at least have a good excuse to do so). For example, if you had blood tests and your testo/estrogen levels were good, I wouldn't bother with that. You could try many things that may help you break the plateau without altering your hormone levels if they're already good
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