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Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk

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Slyblackdragon
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2007/06/15 07:15:39 (permalink)
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Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk

Hi all. As many of you have seen and read I have spent the last 6 months dropping my bodyfat down to acceptable levels, from 23% down to around 9.5-10%. Sometime soon I would like to try and add some quality muscle while keeping the fat gains to a minimum, if at all possible I would not like to get over around 12%, do I need to go any higher? Right now I am still eating around 500-600 calories under my estimated maintainence calories of 2900. In order to have enough quality nutrients to create a good muscle building environment how many calories above my estimated maintainence should I eat? Also, do the same rules as cutting apply, as in eating every 2-4 hours and having a split of 50-30-20 (carbs, protein, fats?). Thanks for your help everyone, I really want to do it right this time and not use "bulking" as my excuse to eat pizza every day and get fat again.
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    ToxicToffee
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/15 08:26:47 (permalink)
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    ok

    there is no number
    there are no ratios

    just see what works for you

    TBH you are not sub 10% in your pics mate

    best thing to do is increase calories, keep a little cardio but accept the more carbs that go in = the more water weight you hold...this is not body fat

    you will not add lean tissue off low carbs naturally, period
    #2
    Slyblackdragon
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/15 17:47:23 (permalink)
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    O.K. Also, is it reasonable to expect I can stay under 12%? I realize there is a point that no matter how many more calories you eat, your body just can't build muscle any faster and it will get stored. Honestly I am horrified of putting on much bodyfat.
    #3
    YumPies
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/15 18:01:12 (permalink)
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    Perhaps your best idea to avoid going over 12% BF is to get leaner still, then have a longer period to bulk for?

    Lean bulks will slow down the fat gain, they may also hinder your possible gains of muscle though - i don't know. Can't have the ying without the yang though!

    Try 500kcal surplus, not sure what you weigh or how many lbs this allows you to gain, if its something stupid like 5lbs then i'd continue cutting.

    Personally i will bulk and gain around 2 stone over a period of 3-5months, it'll be clean and ill do fasted morning cardio to try combat the fat gain.

    Just few ideas really, perhaps cutting down more is wiser - Otherwise you'll just have to suck it up and sit around at 20% BF and cut again after
    #4
    American Dream
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/15 18:10:25 (permalink)
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    That T-nation link gaz posts gives an indication of calories required to bulk without gaining masses of bodyfat. Its by no means a definate number, but certainly a good starting figure, i believe the ample weight gain was 3lb per month.

    "Continuous effort -- not strength or intelligence -- is the key to unlocking our potential."
    #5
    American Dream
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/15 18:12:29 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: ToxicToffee

    ok

    there is no number
    there are no ratios

    just see what works for you

    TBH you are not sub 10% in your pics mate

    best thing to do is increase calories, keep a little cardio but accept the more carbs that go in = the more water weight you hold...this is not body fat

    you will not add lean tissue off low carbs naturally, period



    What bodyfat would you say he is in picture? Is there anything in particular that shows when you get to 10%, i know its person specific but was just wondering.

    "Continuous effort -- not strength or intelligence -- is the key to unlocking our potential."
    #6
    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/15 18:36:35 (permalink)
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    ToxicToffee
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/15 19:18:21 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: American Dream

    What bodyfat would you say he is in picture? Is there anything in particular that shows when you get to 10%, i know its person specific but was just wondering.



    from the pics below?

    13% ish maybe a touch more

    how do you know when you are 10%?

    people will be 10% and have ripped abs
    people at 10% will have fuzzy abs
    people may have a ripped ass or christmas tree

    YET

    be 'holding it elsewhere'

    keith and i are dieting down and we are holding the same BF% appx but my back is way ahead of his and his legs are far crisper than mine

    so its perosn specific but below is not sub 10%


    June 07 (Today Actually)



    #8
    YumPies
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/15 19:20:37 (permalink)
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    Is it true about increasing the number of fat cells, i thought they were established when you were very young and remained the same ALWAYS, they just expanded?

    I like the part about definition/illusion with pictures to support it!


    2. The leaner you are, the better your body becomes at nutrient partitioning. This means that lean individuals are more effective at storing the ingested nutrients in the muscle (as muscle tissue or glycogen) or in the liver (glycogen), and less effective at storing them as body fat. Simply put, leaner individuals can eat more nutrients without gaining fat


    Is this supported by any evidence? I always assume the oppisite(Assuming same muscle mass!) since body fat is extra weight to carry around, more calories burnt. Bob with no bag vs bob with a bag full of 10KG weights. ?
    #9
    American Dream
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/15 19:34:46 (permalink)
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    Ok thanks toxic!

    "Continuous effort -- not strength or intelligence -- is the key to unlocking our potential."
    #10
    Slyblackdragon
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/16 09:51:08 (permalink)
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    didn't mean to spark a bodyfat debate, it is just what my bodyfat calipers say DAMN ACCUMEASURE! At least it gives me a guideline. Also, richsINS, is it really a good idea for me to keep trying to cut if I have been working at fat loss for 6 months? I was thinking that my body could use a rest and that I would be more successful if I just aimed to remain lower bodyfat and gain some muscle then make a big push after the first of the year to really get shredded. Again this is my first real crack at doing this correctly so all and any honest input will help me.
    #11
    ToxicToffee
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/16 10:20:25 (permalink)
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    TBH if you were to get 'shreaded' with current lean mass it would = skinny

    over the next year or slow clean eating in a surplus will allow for new tissue but accept the ffat will come and some water when CHO are re introduced
    #12
    BYF1
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/16 12:09:01 (permalink)
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    i think what you've achieved over the last 6 months is excellent, a great transformation, well done.

    i'd personally begin to look at adding mass from now on as TT states.
    #13
    ToxicToffee
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/16 15:10:57 (permalink)
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    for sure G

    i agree
    (ast i stated in the original thread) i think the transformation is great

    BUT now is not the time to try and bend the rules

    adding muscle mass doesnt have to be a 'fat fest' but the whol lean bulk thingy often screws up for the seasoned trainer through fear of carbs

    as for the body fat, a general observation i have found is state side they are a little 'over enthusiastic' when predicting BF%

    (not a dig on you sly but a general observation)
    #14
    Slyblackdragon
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/16 18:00:11 (permalink)
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    No harm, like I said before it is just what my calipers say. Even though it isn't accurate at least I get a consistent reading.
    #15
    fraser
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/16 18:02:48 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Slyblackdragon

    No harm, like I said before it is just what my calipers say. Even though it isn't accurate at least I get a consistent reading.


    They're handy for that reason, you can judge % increases and decreases quite accurately if you use them right, while the actual number might not actually be spot on.
    #16
    fraser
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/16 18:03:42 (permalink)
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    Great progress btw
    #17
    ToxicToffee
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/16 18:13:33 (permalink)
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    calipers work out how fat your skin fold is an has limited ability to work out BF%
    #18
    fraser
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/16 18:53:49 (permalink)
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    Do you think they can accurately measure decreases and increases even if the actual figure is off?
    #19
    Slyblackdragon
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    RE: Approximately How Many Calories for a Lean(ish) Bulk 2007/06/16 19:13:36 (permalink)
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    thanks!
    #20
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