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Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed

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milto
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2006/07/17 23:41:59 (permalink)
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Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed


Guys,

i'm really having trouble with barbell rows. as i mentioned in a previous thread, i don;t feel like its testing me, and when I put the weight up, I lose technique.

Is there any exercise I could replace barbell rows with? how about bent over dumbbell rows?

advice would be much appreciated.

thanks in advance

Milto
#1

15 Replies Related Threads

    Morba
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    RE: Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed 2006/07/17 23:48:24 (permalink)
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    you can do it with dumbells, but its not as effective apparently.
    also, you could try reverse bench press (think thats what its called), lay on a bench on your stomach, pull barbell up towards the bench from underneath.

    wide grip chins
    full range of motion lat pull down
    seated rows

    all valid back exercises. also take a look at the exercise list on bodybuilding.com . no dount there will be more exercises that you might want to try :]

    :o
    #2
    freak_in_cage
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    RE: Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed 2006/07/18 00:29:46 (permalink)
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    you have to be careful not to use your lower back of legs when doing bent over rows as this is cheating. maintain strict form and full ROM (pull the bar close so it touches your chest/stomach), IMO you should hold it at this point, just for half a second or so and then slowly lower. dont explode the bar up towards you replying on momentum to get the bar to your chest

    should be taxing if you perform them like that m8!
    #3
    Rodger
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    RE: Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed 2006/07/18 14:17:37 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: freak_in_cage

    you have to be careful not to use your lower back of legs when doing bent over rows as this is cheating. maintain strict form and full ROM (pull the bar close so it touches your chest/stomach), IMO you should hold it at this point, just for half a second or so and then slowly lower. dont explode the bar up towards you replying on momentum to get the bar to your chest

    should be taxing if you perform them like that m8!


    i think i need to try the pausing technique then, as i mentioined in the other BB Bent over row thread I've just got back into doing these, and feel like i'm struggling a little

    Injured!!

    Squat 170kgx1 105kgx25
    Dead 200x1
    Decline Bench 80x6

    Formerly BencherRdg  (what a stoooopid name!)
    #4
    Rob1985
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    RE: Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed 2006/07/18 14:42:07 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: freak_in_cage

    you have to be careful not to use your lower back of legs when doing bent over rows as this is cheating. maintain strict form and full ROM (pull the bar close so it touches your chest/stomach), IMO you should hold it at this point, just for half a second or so and then slowly lower. dont explode the bar up towards you replying on momentum to get the bar to your chest

    should be taxing if you perform them like that m8!


    This, of course, totally depends on your goals.

    I strongly disagree that you should avoid trying to explode the bar up. Speed is very important in all lifts - lift as quickly as possible. You are responsible for the momentum, not the weight. The movement is still being performed.

    There are many different methods of barbell rowing - experimenting is clearly the key to finding what method is best suited to you.
    #5
    freak_in_cage
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    RE: Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed 2006/07/18 15:32:45 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Rob1985

    ORIGINAL: freak_in_cage

    you have to be careful not to use your lower back of legs when doing bent over rows as this is cheating. maintain strict form and full ROM (pull the bar close so it touches your chest/stomach), IMO you should hold it at this point, just for half a second or so and then slowly lower. dont explode the bar up towards you replying on momentum to get the bar to your chest

    should be taxing if you perform them like that m8!


    This, of course, totally depends on your goals.

    I strongly disagree that you should avoid trying to explode the bar up. Speed is very important in all lifts - lift as quickly as possible. You are responsible for the momentum, not the weight. The movement is still being performed.

    There are many different methods of barbell rowing - experimenting is clearly the key to finding what method is best suited to you.


    normally i would agree with this m8, explosive power can be v beneficial depending on your goals like u said.

    however, with rows its terribly easy to go too heavy to begin with and use the momentum you build up at the beggining of the lift so the bar nearly bounces off your sternum (if it gets that far). this cant be good m8?!

    similar to ppl bouncing the bar off their chest when benching, using the momentum to press out the bottom.
    #6
    Rob1985
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    RE: Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed 2006/07/18 16:33:09 (permalink)
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    I've yet to see anyone bouncing a bar off their sternum.

    Even if they did it's not like it's going to make the next rep any easier (as it would in benching) - the positive part of the lift starts when the barbell is lowered to the starting position and brought up again.
    #7
    leanmachine
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    RE: Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed 2006/07/18 16:34:57 (permalink)
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    what i do is to do a deadlift and then as im up go down into a half squating position. lift head up and to the row this is how i get the back to feel it.
    #8
    freak_in_cage
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    RE: Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed 2006/07/18 16:40:33 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Rob1985

    I've yet to see anyone bouncing a bar off their sternum.

    Even if they did it's not like it's going to make the next rep any easier (as it would in benching) - the positive part of the lift starts when the barbell is lowered to the starting position and brought up again.


    perhaps im not explaining it then.

    if you row with as much explosive power as possibly you build up momentum with allows you to lift far heavier with the same apparent ROM (when in fact its the momentum bringing the bar to full ROM?!

    perhaps im wrong?! i dunno- am confusiong myself lol!
    #9
    tokar
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    RE: Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed 2006/07/18 21:32:28 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: freak_in_cage


    ORIGINAL: Rob1985

    I've yet to see anyone bouncing a bar off their sternum.

    Even if they did it's not like it's going to make the next rep any easier (as it would in benching) - the positive part of the lift starts when the barbell is lowered to the starting position and brought up again.


    perhaps im not explaining it then.

    if you row with as much explosive power as possibly you build up momentum with allows you to lift far heavier with the same apparent ROM (when in fact its the momentum bringing the bar to full ROM?!

    perhaps im wrong?! i dunno- am confusiong myself lol!


    If the "momentum" is built up by lifting explosively then what's wrong with momentum??! There's nothing "apparent" about the ROM.

    I think there are two reasons why people say that you shouldn't lift explosively, particularly on rows. I'm not sure which one is yours:

    1) They associate lifting explosively with lifting sloppily. So the "momentum" you refer to is because of bad form - because you are using the rest of your body to move the bar rather than just your lats.

    2) They subscribe to the "time under tension" theory of muscle growth, which claims that muscles have to be under tension for a certain time to induce growth. If you lift fast, the tension is brief, so you shouldn't lift fast. This is flawed because there is little or no evidence that TUT is correct. If you're doing a sufficient volume of work overall it's not going to make much difference how long they're under tension during each rep.

    Lifting explosively is good because it increases rate of force production and consequently makes you stronger in general, and is more efficient for lifting heavy weights.
    #10
    Morba
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    RE: Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed 2006/07/18 23:54:12 (permalink)
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    no harm in using explosive movements now and then. it bring into use both sets of twitch fibers (fast and slow twitch), which as tokar says, increases the rate of force production making you stronger :]

    :o
    #11
    CoVetous
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    RE: Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed 2006/07/19 00:25:30 (permalink)
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    HRM,

    I like DB bent over rows allot. The only problem with them i can see is they dont make DB heavy enough.
    #12
    freak_in_cage
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    RE: Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed 2006/07/19 00:49:55 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: tokar


    ORIGINAL: freak_in_cage


    ORIGINAL: Rob1985

    I've yet to see anyone bouncing a bar off their sternum.

    Even if they did it's not like it's going to make the next rep any easier (as it would in benching) - the positive part of the lift starts when the barbell is lowered to the starting position and brought up again.


    perhaps im not explaining it then.

    if you row with as much explosive power as possibly you build up momentum with allows you to lift far heavier with the same apparent ROM (when in fact its the momentum bringing the bar to full ROM?!

    perhaps im wrong?! i dunno- am confusiong myself lol!


    If the "momentum" is built up by lifting explosively then what's wrong with momentum??! There's nothing "apparent" about the ROM.

    I think there are two reasons why people say that you shouldn't lift explosively, particularly on rows. I'm not sure which one is yours:

    1) They associate lifting explosively with lifting sloppily. So the "momentum" you refer to is because of bad form - because you are using the rest of your body to move the bar rather than just your lats.

    2) They subscribe to the "time under tension" theory of muscle growth, which claims that muscles have to be under tension for a certain time to induce growth. If you lift fast, the tension is brief, so you shouldn't lift fast. This is flawed because there is little or no evidence that TUT is correct. If you're doing a sufficient volume of work overall it's not going to make much difference how long they're under tension during each rep.

    Lifting explosively is good because it increases rate of force production and consequently makes you stronger in general, and is more efficient for lifting heavy weights.


    both good points m8- but not quite what i was getting at, im prob talking crap here, but it still seems a bit fishy to me

    lets assume that person A trains as explosivly as possible whilst maintain good form when rowing. after 1 yr he can row 100Kg for reps.

    person b trains a little more slowly and tends to pause a little at the "top" of the rep when rowing, or at the least raises the weight slowly but firmly throughout the whole movement. this person also rows 100Kg for reps.

    now, suppose both person a & person b are required to row 80kg BUT they are only required to lift it the final 20% of the lift eg the bar 8inches from your chest to your chest.

    person A will find this vvvv difficult. the muscles required at the beggining of a full lift differ (in terms of ratio & amount of stress)from those used in the final few inches. as person A lifts with as much explosive power, he gains a little momentum during the lift, which means the last few inches of the rep are aided. when lifting the last few inches only, he doesn;t have the oppertunity to gain this momentum, therefore finding it harder?!

    that make any sence?! i could well be wrong, im interested!
    post edited by freak_in_cage - 2006/07/19 00:51:55
    #13
    Rob1985
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    RE: Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed 2006/07/19 00:52:24 (permalink)
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    Well your experiment is already flawed because you're saying subject B can row as much as subject A, when A would blatantly be stronger after a year.

    Do you want to be strong at rowing or strong at holding a bar to your chest?
    #14
    tokar
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    RE: Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed 2006/07/19 09:19:57 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Rob1985

    Well your experiment is already flawed because you're saying subject B can row as much as subject A, when A would blatantly be stronger after a year.

    Do you want to be strong at rowing or strong at holding a bar to your chest?


    Precisely my two thoughts.

    I doubt that person b would actually be worse at the top part of the movement but anyway who cares? Nobody does rows so they can beat someone in a partial range of motion row competition.
    #15
    CoVetous
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    RE: Bent Over Barbell Rows Help Needed 2006/07/19 09:33:15 (permalink)
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    tokar i challange you to a row competition :)

    JK, you would kick my arss anyway ;)
    #16
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