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Helpful ReplyBest options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included

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Rossi2014
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2014/12/02 11:22:46 (permalink)

Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included

Hi All,
 
I've just got my bloods back, and they confirm what I've thought for a long time - I have low testosterone.
 
I'm 38, otherwise in good shape, decent strength & put on muscle quite easily. Poor energy levels and very low libido, however.
 
Results:
 
Serum free testosterone                 213pmol/L  (range 243 to 571)
Serum testosterone                       14.0 nnmol/L (range 11.40 to 27.90)
Serum albumin                             50g/L (range 35 to 52)
Serum sex hormone binding glob    47 nmol/L (range 18 to 54)
 
I wondered what you guys would recommend as TRT from my GP. I'm thinking Androgel initally, because it's billed as more closely matching your day to day testosterone rising and falling.
 
I also thought if I feel good after a couple of months on Androgel, I'll move over to Nebido for convenience.
 
All thoughts appreciated :)
#1
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thegrimreaper
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/02 13:16:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby simonboyle 2016/08/02 21:15:05
You've been prescribed by your GP with a level of 14????!!!!
 
Are you in the UK ? (I guess you are judging by the units you've specified).
 
14 is the highest I've ever tested in the last 5 years and I never get a referral!
 
#2
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/02 13:27:23 (permalink)
Most GP`s wont give you a choice, lucky if they do, so hear what he has to say first. And as above, 14 , as a rule wont get you trt so again lucky .







Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body... but rather to skid in sideways, totally
worn out, shouting
Holy ****... What a ride!!"    
#3
Rossi2014
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/02 21:42:32 (permalink)
Well there's another party involved - I've been suffering from depression for a while, so was referred to a psychiatrist, who is very forward thinking, and an all round good guy so far.
 
He was the one who asked me to get Test bloods done, as well as a full blood count on thyroid, RBC etc.
 
His view was to rule out all physical causes, before looking at psychiatric medicine - he even tested for vitamin levels such as the B vitamins, deficiencies of which can cause lethargy and depression.
 
When I saw him after the Testosterone results, he was very adamant TRT was the way forward, and said he's had 3 patients use TRT and they've had excellent results on their mood and outlook.
 
I had similar Test results 4 years ago, but the doctors involved at that time, said to continue using anti-depressants.... I think it's a case of the medical community advancing a bit further forward !
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Rossi2014
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/19 21:48:57 (permalink)
A pretty great update guys, my GP prescribed Testogel (like Androgel) today - 50mg sachets, one applied each day.
 
My psychiatrist's input on this was instrumental - he'd written to my GP advising I start TRT, to treat my depression.
 
I will be going back in 6 weeks for more bloods, to see where that puts my Test levels, then probably move onto injections, if I feel the TRT was beneficial (though I realise after that length of time, my natural Test will be very suppressed anyway... so stopping the TRT would require PCT - hopefully I won't want to stop it)
 
I started the Testogel this evening - further doses will be in the morning as is the norm.
 
One question though - I know supraphysiological levels of testosterone are bad for ligaments and tendons, due to reduced collagen synthesis. Will a healthy level of testosterone through TRT - say 18 or 19 nnmol also be bad for ligaments and tendons?
 
Common sense would say no - it's a good, increased healthy level. Similarly, my current level of 14 nnmol being in the age bracket of an 85 year old, would suggest my natural T level would be poor for ligaments, as well as muscle mass (given 85 year olds aren't usually robust!).
 
I ask because I do have a lot of tendon niggles from years of overtraining (pre internet, and training knowledge in our gym wasn't great)
 
All comments appreciated :)
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Rossi2014
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/19 21:56:34 (permalink)
thegrimreaper
You've been prescribed by your GP with a level of 14????!!!!
 
Are you in the UK ? (I guess you are judging by the units you've specified).
 
14 is the highest I've ever tested in the last 5 years and I never get a referral!
 




I tested at 14.7 nnmol, two years ago, was referred to an endocronologist - and he said my T level was fine, as within range.
 
I explained that according to my reading around, it's more about age appropriate levels, and in my mid 30s I had the T level of an 85 year old...
 
His response was that my tiredness, low mood and feeling withdrawn was psychiatric... so at that time I decided to persevere with anti-depressants.
 
Anti-depressants have been of limited help - I still need to sleep for a couple of hours after work each day. Still have a low, but more manageable mood. Libido is worse than ever - side effects of the anti-depressants!
 
I think this time, 2 years later, I've been lucky to benefit from 2 things:
 
* The NHS now being more forward thinking about TRT
* Getting an open minded psychiatrist, who has had patients really benefit from TRT. In fact his words were "it'd be crazy to carry on trying anti-depressants, when the problem is in black and white, on your testosterone results"
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Rossi2014
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/22 20:20:23 (permalink)
4th day of using the Testogel, and I've had boners during the night and in the morning, the last 2 days. This hasn't happened in at least 7 years. I'd never get morning wood, and would secretly take Viagra before having sex with my girl friends, over the last 8 years.
 
Too much info maybe ;) but a very good sign
 
No increase in libido yet, but I'm still taking the SNRI venlafaxine, which my psych and I agreed we would taper down, if the TRT improves my mood & energy. SNRI/SSRIs = death to libido in my experience.
 
 
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/23 10:13:41 (permalink)
Your actual overall T level will stabilise in due course as your natural T becomes a little suppressed.

 
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Rossi2014
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/24 09:38:28 (permalink)
PartyBoy
Your actual overall T level will stabilise in due course as your natural T becomes a little suppressed.




Cheers for the reply mate. Yeah at the moment my blood level of T should be higher than in future, my own system still working + the Testogel.

I read a while back it takes 2 weeks of AAS to suppress the HPTA. Is that still current thinking?
 
Some more too much info:
 
Was able to have sex without Viagra for the first time in years, yesterday (and my GF is good looking :P ). Huge night time boners last night too.
 
Energy wise, I've not needed an after work evening nap since I started the Testogel. The energy is subtle, more of a sense of well being.
 
My reservations with pursuing TRT in the past, were down to reading after a while, patients sometimes return to feeling crappy, as the HPTA is much more complex than simply having T in your system (nuts working, LH FSH from the HPTA and other stuff going on).... So I realise I might hit some rocky road in a while, where the TRT stops benefiting my well being as much... fingers crossed though.
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Rossi2014
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/24 09:42:25 (permalink)
Partyboy - in terms of moving to T shots, I've read advice to inject T daily, using slin pins, to keep blood levels more steady.
 
This makes a lot of sense - if I get Nebido and it's massive half life, or even enanthate, long periods between injections seems to equal too many ups and downs in T levels.
 
Is it possible for oil based T to be injected sub q? I thought it was only for IM use.
 
Thanks :)
 
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chris182
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Re: 2014/12/24 11:44:15 (permalink)
I was on anti depressants for years, I just kept taking them like I was told to and I'm convinced this has effected me long term, horrible drugs that I probably didn't even need.

Glad the gel is working!
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thegrimreaper
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/24 12:00:07 (permalink)
Rossi2014
Partyboy - in terms of moving to T shots, I've read advice to inject T daily, using slin pins, to keep blood levels more steady.
 
This makes a lot of sense - if I get Nebido and it's massive half life, or even enanthate, long periods between injections seems to equal too many ups and downs in T levels.
 
Is it possible for oil based T to be injected sub q? I thought it was only for IM use.
 
Thanks :)
 


 
From my understanding the NHS are rarely prescribing Enanthate or Sustanon any more in favour of Nebido which is Underdecanate and only needs to be shot once every 9-12 weeks depending on individuals. Some report they get peeks and valleys using it but many people find it very stable-Partyboy included I think.
 
Also you can inject T sub Q but its best IM, Nebido is an oil based injection and if I'm not mistaken its a glutual IM injection of 4ml of oil.
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Rossi2014
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Re: 2014/12/24 21:33:55 (permalink)
chris182
I was on anti depressants for years, I just kept taking them like I was told to and I'm convinced this has effected me long term, horrible drugs that I probably didn't even need.

Glad the gel is working!



Yeah, I remember reading 15 years ago, that SSRIs can increase prolactin production, which if I remember right, affects T production, and can also cause gyno.

I actually got the itchy nips of gyno (but thankfully no man tits) from Prozac and also Sertraline.

I feel like I've had low T for at least 13 years, and asked about it, but back then the NHS wouldn't even consider it... **** happens though, and you could say the same thing for people with ADHD in the 80s, or pretty much any mental illness before the 70s - you were screwed.
 
Glad things are changing :)
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Rossi2014
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/24 21:34:54 (permalink)
thegrimreaper
Rossi2014
Partyboy - in terms of moving to T shots, I've read advice to inject T daily, using slin pins, to keep blood levels more steady.
 
This makes a lot of sense - if I get Nebido and it's massive half life, or even enanthate, long periods between injections seems to equal too many ups and downs in T levels.
 
Is it possible for oil based T to be injected sub q? I thought it was only for IM use.
 
Thanks :)
 


 
From my understanding the NHS are rarely prescribing Enanthate or Sustanon any more in favour of Nebido which is Underdecanate and only needs to be shot once every 9-12 weeks depending on individuals. Some report they get peeks and valleys using it but many people find it very stable-Partyboy included I think.
 
Also you can inject T sub Q but its best IM, Nebido is an oil based injection and if I'm not mistaken its a glutual IM injection of 4ml of oil.




Thanks mate, really appreciate the info, and would like to hear from Nebido users.
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PartyBoy
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/25 08:47:00 (permalink)
Rossi2014
Was able to have sex without Viagra for the first time in years, yesterday (and my GF is good looking :P ).



Pics or it never happened
 
I've injected trt enanth IM & sub-q and not ever noticed any difference tbh. I'd limit sub-q to 0.5ml per site but being sub-q you've got almost limitless sites lol - I've used lower stomach, obliques, even quad fat before. I'd probably not jab nebido sub-q given the v. long h/l & limited blood supply to sub-q so always jabbed this IM.  I use 4ml nebido e12 weeks + 1ml enan at week 9 or 10.

 
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/25 08:49:00 (permalink)
I remember applying the testogel - what an absolute ball-ache that was. Surprising how much liquid to rub in 5ml actually is!
 

 
#16
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/25 08:53:00 (permalink)
PartyBoy
I remember applying the testogel - what an absolute ball-ache that was. Surprising how much liquid to rub in 5ml actually is!
 


Might wonna try another site mate  

Fortes Fortuna Adiuvat
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/25 09:26:48 (permalink)
PartyBoy
I remember applying the testogel - what an absolute ball-ache that was. Surprising how much liquid to rub in 5ml actually is!
 


Applying it to your actual balls?
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/25 09:36:18 (permalink)
lol
 
 
 
umm
 
 
No!

 
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Re: Best options for TRT? My GP wants to start me on TRT - blood test results included 2014/12/25 17:04:27 (permalink)
I started off with Testo gel @ 50mg p/d and now on Nebido 1000mg. Still in the early days due my 3rd shot come January, then bloods taken 2 days prior to last shot in April. This will tell the endo how often I need to jab in future. Must say, TRT is a God send for me. I've been on anti d's for many years, and since starting trt, I'm convinced I don't need the Prozac anymore.
 
I've noticed I feel really tired about week 9, but heard this is common and bloods will eventually level out?


#20
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