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Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut

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dianabolik
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2008/05/22 12:18:50 (permalink)
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Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut

currently doing 45 mins of weights followed by 20 mins cardio, I normally take my protein shake straight after the cardio, what would be the best carb source to use in my shake while i am on a cutting diet ?

Bench  - 100kg for 6

Deadlift - 160kg for 6 (w/ straps) 

#1

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    Drew Price
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/22 12:27:24 (permalink)
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    You could have it before the cardio.

    The best carbs are the ones that agree with you and your whole diet.

    If you're going very low carb then I recommend a food source (for the micronutrients you may be missing) but if not then a little glucose and dextrose is fine.

    You may considering dividing the dose up for before during and after as this will support recovery better.
    #2
    Ak_88
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/22 12:32:31 (permalink)
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    I personally don't have any PWO.

    Weights i have carbs Pre-workout and PPWO.

    Cardio i just have fats/pro and then carbs in the meal after cardio.

    Though as drew says, whole diet
    #3
    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/22 12:37:14 (permalink)
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    Prioritise carbs PWO in my opinion.
    #4
    dianabolik
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/22 21:42:54 (permalink)
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    do you think its still ok to have my protein / carb shake after the cardio (considering i've just done weights before)

    as for carb source....would 2 small bananas be ok ? what other fruits ?

    Bench  - 100kg for 6

    Deadlift - 160kg for 6 (w/ straps) 

    #5
    theiopener
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/22 21:45:26 (permalink)
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    if you wanna lose fat then drop your PWO shake and just have a meal an hour after you finish training

    whey and fast carbs = insulin spikes = loss of fat burning

    if youve eaten a few hours before then nothing will happen to you in terms of muscle lost etc
    post edited by theiopener - 2008/05/22 21:46:09
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    All4n
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/22 21:50:25 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: theiopener

    if you wanna lose fat then drop your PWO shake and just have a meal an hour after you finish training

    whey and fast carbs = insulin spikes = loss of fat burning

    if youve eaten a few hours before then nothing will happen to you in terms of muscle lost etc


    Would it not be better just to drop the simple carbs and keep the whey in water on its own?
    #7
    theiopener
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/22 21:51:20 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: All4n
    ORIGINAL: theiopener
    if you wanna lose fat then drop your PWO shake and just have a meal an hour after you finish training

    whey and fast carbs = insulin spikes = loss of fat burning

    if youve eaten a few hours before then nothing will happen to you in terms of muscle lost etc

    Would it not be better just to drop the simple carbs and keep the whey in water on its own?

    whey still produces a insulin spike

    why the need for a PWO shake if the body isnt starved of nutrients at all if hes eating every few hours?
    #8
    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/23 09:56:01 (permalink)
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    PWO isn't a time for fat burning, it is a time for recovery and ingesting nutrients to help with spiking insulin, stopping catabolism, restoring glycogen and ingesting protein.

    Not something i would recommend dropping.

    Use other times of the day for being in a fat burning environment, PWO isn't one of those in my opinion.
    #9
    Dieselboy
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/23 11:02:01 (permalink)
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    i'm with gaz

    i'm cutting quite hard and i have 50g whey 20g dex and 30g oats

    Balls are for pansies!!
    #10
    fraser
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/23 11:31:38 (permalink)
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    Even in the last stages of comp prep carbs are included PWO

    Unless you have no mass at all then it should be the last place you want to carb-dodge imo
    #11
    theiopener
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/23 11:36:55 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: OoOGazOoO
    PWO isn't a time for fat burning, it is a time for recovery and ingesting nutrients to help with spiking insulin, stopping catabolism, restoring glycogen and ingesting protein.

    Not something i would recommend dropping.

    Use other times of the day for being in a fat burning environment, PWO isn't one of those in my opinion.

    you dont need a spike you can get recovery with a rise in insulin levels. recovery isnt limited to a 1 hour window its more like 24-48 hours. he isnt going to go catabolic either as he wont be amino starved and his glycogen levels wont be depleted either unless hes on seriously low carbs to begin with and is doing tabata/circuits

    tell me if its such a crucial time why ingest fast carbs that are nutrient devoid?
    post edited by theiopener - 2008/05/23 11:37:47
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    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/23 11:43:24 (permalink)
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    Carbs PWO highten the spike of insulin from the whey Eddie.

    Together, they will help to sustain the higher insulin concentrations within the body, ingesting both macronutrients will also start the recovery process sooner too. Add increasing protein synthesis into that too.

    Seems strange not to get carbs or whey at all PWO when they are needed most in my opinion.

    #13
    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/23 11:44:16 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: theiopener
    tell me if its such a crucial time why ingest fast carbs that are nutrient devoid?



    They are not nutrient devoid though.

    Sugars like dextrose are some of the quickest acting nutrients there are.

    That's hardly devoid of properties and benefits really.
    #14
    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/23 11:47:09 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: fraser

    Even in the last stages of comp prep carbs are included PWO


    Agree with that too.

    Professionals dont even drop PWO when they are reaching very low levels of bodyfat.

    Would be the last place to drop nutrients in my opinion.
    #15
    theiopener
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/23 11:49:12 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: OoOGazOoO
    ORIGINAL: theiopener
    tell me if its such a crucial time why ingest fast carbs that are nutrient devoid?

    They are not nutrient devoid though.

    Sugars like dextrose are some of the quickest acting nutrients there are.

    That's hardly devoid of properties and benefits really.

    no vitamins, minerals or micronutrients of any sort come with the ingestion of dextrose

    surely if the body is supposedly crying out for recovery and is crashing with catabolism being rife why would you settle for something less than optimal

    whey alone spikes insulin so why the need for dextrose unless hes doing a HIIT cardio session later on and he needs very fast glycogen replenishment or simply cant fit in the calories at any other time of day (which in people like Dazc's case is true but not the for the vast majority on here)
    ORIGINAL: OoOGazOoO
    Carbs PWO highten the spike of insulin from the whey Eddie.

    Together, they will help to sustain the higher insulin concentrations within the body, ingesting both macronutrients will also start the recovery process sooner too. Add increasing protein synthesis into that too.

    Seems strange not to get carbs or whey at all PWO when they are needed most in my opinion.

    but why do you need a spike in the first place mate this is what im getting at. Insulin is a cortisol antagonist and only a little is needed to stop the effects so why the need to spike it so high in the firts place when a rise will accomplish the same job without them running the risk of going hypoglycaemic

    Whey alone does the same job but as most people eat around 90 mins before they workout none of this even matters ad they eat every 3 hours and no such catabolism will take place nor will it affect recovery unless youre pretty much at an elite level (last bit about elite is my opinion)
    #16
    theiopener
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/23 11:50:57 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: OoOGazOoO
    ORIGINAL: fraser
    Even in the last stages of comp prep carbs are included PWO

    Agree with that too.

    Professionals dont even drop PWO when they are reaching very low levels of bodyfat.

    Would be the last place to drop nutrients in my opinion.

    Shame there arent any professionals on the board asking for diet advice

    most trainers who enter the D&N forums do not need the level of pedanticness that some preach (myself included in that statement!)

    Pro's will know what their own body works for them to a big extent
    post edited by theiopener - 2008/05/23 11:51:37
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    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/23 11:55:19 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: theiopener

    Shame there arent any professionals on the board asking for diet advice

    most trainers who enter the D&N forums do not need the level of pedanticness that some preach (myself included in that statement!)

    Pro's will know what their own body works for them to a big extent


    It is a shame mate because you could tell all these pro's who have been wrong for so many years by having a PWO shake.

    Without being funny Eddie, you have used this approach for how long, 4 weeks? ? ?
    #18
    theiopener
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/23 11:59:51 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: OoOGazOoO
    ORIGINAL: theiopener
    Shame there arent any professionals on the board asking for diet advice

    most trainers who enter the D&N forums do not need the level of pedanticness that some preach (myself included in that statement!)

    Pro's will know what their own body works for them to a big extent

    It is a shame mate because you could tell all these pro's who have been wrong for so many years by having a PWO shake.

    Without being funny Eddie, you have used this approach for how long, 4 weeks? ? ?

    actually its been 4 months mate, UD2 i have been on for 4 weeks. i have been eating 4 meals a day for 4 months too, even though i had a plan from James i jigged it to my needs.

    Bodies and physiques were built before modern day supplements. Dazc used massive amounts of fat in his PWO protocol, something which convention wisdom frowns upon, yet it works for some strange reason, hes not wasting away due to delaying of gastric emptying or other bits science has given us to complicate things beyond belief

    Like i said a pro is very different to your run of the mill trainer who comes in here looking for their first diet to get them started, you cannot compare the two in the same light mate it just doesnt hold merit.

    again i reiterate where is there a pro asking for diet advice in the D&N forum?
    #19
    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: Carbs post workout...whilst on a cut 2008/05/23 12:09:34 (permalink)
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    You can argue the fact about the pro yes, but there is nothing wrong with giving the best knowledge you know and the best methods you know, even if someone isn't a pro.

    I dont see the point in people giving half-baked information just because they're 'not a pro'.

    That is my take on the situation.

    What are your goals anyway Eddie now, i thought you were wanting to be a powerlifter? ? ? How does a low-carb approach fit in with powerlifting when you have stated that your deadlift has gone down by 30kg as a result? ? ?
    #20
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