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Helpful ReplyHot!Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile?

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Brett
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2017/06/28 04:16:00 (permalink)
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Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile?

Who has done some research into this?
 
Never have I read up on a topic that has so much conjecture and blind obedience to regulatory bodies.
 
Advisory committees worldwide including the USDA and EFSA have recommendations on appropriate levels for cholesterol in your blood. This is where the ranges on your blood tests come from. Apparently this is based on some limited reviews of available data and the exclusion of other studies that were conflicting or at least non-supportive.
 
There has been some research in recent years that suggests that saturated fat does raise LDL (or bad chol) but at the same time it raises HDL too. Other articles I've read suggest that HDL/LDL ratio is less of an indicator for cardio vascular disease risk and we should be looking at the LDL/Triglyceride ratio instead. Studies are also inconclusive regarding the link between ingested cholesterol and your chol profile. Despite all this people continue to avoid eggs and stick to all the low-fat skim varieties of food.
 
The main reason I am curious about this is because I recently have returned 'high' values on my cholesterol profile. Recommendations put forward are for your typical joe -not necessarily for trained bodies. I know that liver values (ALT/AST) can be high for lifters without any cause for concern (despite your doc fretting about liver disease and alcoholism.) I wonder if chol levels can be naturally high for trained bodies also. 
 
This old thread here talks about LDL being naturally higher for trainers:
https://www.muscletalk.co.uk/LDL-needed-to-gain-more-muscle-mass-m4808217.aspx
 
Another interesting article but perhaps lacking some references:
https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kosloff13.htm
 
Long winded but breaks down the reviews that the cholesterol recommendations are based on:
https://www.muscletalk.co.uk/USDA-advice-incorrect-Saturated-fat-not-linked-to-cardiovascular-disease-m4327879.aspx
 
Thoughts?

Brett's Journal Part VII  - The Farce Awakens
Visit the front page of my journal for links to blood logs on Ostarine, SD, Halodrol and more.
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vanderlei
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/06/28 07:55:31 (permalink)
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Mine went up after LGD cycle, still not concerned as my tryglicerides are spot on.
Ever since development of statins the recomended levels are lower and lower. Drug companies want us all hooked up on them, it's a bussiness nothing else.
Worry not, just keep training and do bloods every so often to keep aneye on ur levels😎
 
Btw sarms do raise chol levels.

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Brett
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/06/28 11:26:40 (permalink)
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Hey bud! Yeah for sure sarms affect cholesterol. Mine even has a warning on the label lol. My most recent blood tests are higher because of it but I had some values in the red even before I started. Got me thinking.

According to that bodybuilding.com link 9 of the 10 specialists on the usda panel all have stakes in the pharmaceutical companies that manufacture statins. Don't know if it's true but something to consider. If not why wasn't all the available data included?

Brett's Journal Part VII  - The Farce Awakens
Visit the front page of my journal for links to blood logs on Ostarine, SD, Halodrol and more.
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vanderlei
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/06/28 17:23:11 (permalink)
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As I said drugs since developing drugs that reduce chol they want us all to be on them.
side effects from statins are much much worse than raised chol.
After my sarm run will take a brake, reduce it with diet and than start a new run.
I'm concerned about my triglycerides, as long as my chol is not above 400 I'm golden👍
 
Edit
the norm is 190, it was 300 before statins were developed...
post edited by vanderlei - 2017/06/28 17:24:12

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Brett
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/06/29 14:50:55 (permalink)
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Yeah I saw that every few years they get together and come out with new targets, but there is no additional research to support those new targets?
 
My tris took a nose dive when I lost weight (unless the osta influenced it positively.) It is probably diet related too as my cut is much cleaner.
 
What do you do with diet to reduce LDL then? I've not seen anything mentioned other than lowering saturated fat but there has been research to discount this.

Brett's Journal Part VII  - The Farce Awakens
Visit the front page of my journal for links to blood logs on Ostarine, SD, Halodrol and more.
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vanderlei
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/06/30 18:35:32 (permalink)
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Brasil nuts 4 per week, plus apple cyder vinigar every day( taste is off putting) plus pau d'arco lowers cholesterol and have other benefits and diet of course, but my fats do stay high as I prefer it as my main source of energy, propably that is why I am so small through all those years😉
 
Btw now I started my own kambucha tea which have ton of health benefits
https://draxe.com/7-reaso..rink-kombucha-everyday/

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Brett
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/07/14 07:11:56 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby vanderlei 2017/07/14 10:22:51
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So after starting this thread I continued reading into the so called evils of cholesterol, and how resistance trainers might have different cholesterol levels compared to the revered 'safe' margins set by government regulatory bodies.
 
I already know liver values are affected by weightlifting (notably AST/ALT and Bilirubin - all three are markers of cell damage not necessarily liver cells.) Cholesterol is in fact manufactured by the liver too. It is transported around the body in your blood and performs a myriad of important functions, including a being a building block in the manufacture of testosterone.
 
In fact, every single cell in your body contains cholesterol and it's essential to maintain cell structure! It makes sense to me then, if we are in the business of breaking down and rebuilding cells through resistance training, that lifters would benefit from higher cholesterol.
 
Your body produces the majority of the cholesterol in your body, possibly higher than 80%. Wouldn't it make sense then, if there is a higher demand for cholesterol, that your body would produce more? It regulates all the other hormones and chemicals in your body so why would cholesterol be any different?
 
Below is an interesting article, one part mentions a study which suggests...

... that the restricting of cholesterol - while in the process of exercising - appears to affect building muscle mass in a negative manner. If it's true, as our findings suggest, that cholesterol may play a key role in muscle repair, we need to know exactly how that happens."
https://www.bodybuilding...._cholesterol_truth.htm

 
 
There are in fact no conclusive studies that can effectively link “high” cholesterol with heart disease. Much of this misinformation comes from flawed studies dating back to mid last century. Furthermore:

Nutritional guidelines used for diet and cholesterol are based on the dis-proved notion that cholesterol (solely) comes from fat...
I would encourage you to research the current cholesterol guidelines, how they were set, and by whom. The guidelines were based upon 5 studies, all of which were drug company sponsored. Then a panel of 9 physicians made their recommendations based upon those studies.
The National Institutes of Health publishes a financial disclosure revealing the reported conflicts of interest of those physicians. This is published on the net so each individual can make up their own mind if the data is acceptable in the presence of the financial relationships between those physicians and the drug companies.
http://ehealthforum.com/h...n-athlete-t242266.html

 
It has been disproven that consumed cholesterol (eg. eggs) increases your cholesterol. As said, most of it is produced in your liver. Of the cholesterol in the blood, between 60 and 80 per cent is transported by LDL and is called ”bad” cholesterol. Only 15-20 percent is transported by HDL and is called ”good” cholesterol. A small part of the circulating cholesterol is transported by other lipoproteins.
 
Consuming saturated fat will increase cholesterol but it increases both LDL and HDL, so the supposed 'approved ratio' remains the same. Again we are talking a small increase here compared with the cholesterol your body naturally produces.
 
During my reading I saw a lot of posts made by fit healthy athletic people with great diets, even vegetarians, that returned high levels of cholesterol. One interesting thing of note was all these athletes also had high levels of HDL cholesterol. This was supported in one of the studies I read:

Like total cholesterol, the impact of habitual aerobic exercise on LDL-C appears to be quite variable. However, the majority of studies comparing endurance athletes to sedentary controls or the general population reported that athletes have lower LDL-C levels, with leaner athletes frequently having the lowest values. Although it is not yet definitive, moderate and high intensity aerobic exercise training appears to be associated with elevated HDL-C values.
https://www.unm.edu/~lkra...older/cholesterol.html

 
More info on athletes experiencing higher HDL: http://circ.ahajournals.o...naha/84/1/140.full.pdf

My HDL is quite low and I’m wondering if it is because I do virtually no cardiovascular excersie. Lifting may not be sufficient to raise HDL in the same manner. Inversely my LDL is higher than normal, and I'm wondering if this is because of the weight training and subsequent cell repair (SARM use aside- I returned high level prior to use.) Triglycerides are generally lower in trained individuals too, mine being very low. This is the chemical form of the fat that exists in your body. Triglycerides in our blood come from the fat present in our food, or are made in the body from other energy sources, like carbs.
 
As I posted above there is a school of thought that suggests a better indicator of cardiovascular health is the comparison rate between HDL and triglycerides. There is a growing theory too that cardiovascular disease is caused by inflammation of arteries rather than plaque buildup. Primary cause of this inflammation is suspected to be processed foods and diets rich in carbs.

In summary there is not enough research into cholesterol and how it effects the body. Much of it seems to be conjecture or just the same misinformation regurgitated over and over again, perpetrating the myth that cholesterol is an enemy of your body and it should be reduced to avoid having heart disease.
 
I suspect there is a lot more to the picture, especially where muscle building is concerned. Cholesterol could be a warning sign that something is wrong if it gets too high but if its just outside the 'normal' ranges I wouldn't be concerned. In fact, I am starting to suspect it is necessary for muscle building, and would be reflected in the changes in cholesterol when using muscle building compounds like SARMs or steroids.
 
Hope this helps someone looking into the same topic, although it is mostly for my own reference down the track lol.
 

Possibly one of the most well written and eye-opening arguments against cholesterol margins here: http://www.ravnskov.nu/2015/12/27/myth-1/
 
Some more interesting info: http://blog.paleohacks.co...te-guide-cholesterol/#
 
In the interest of full disclosure here is my most recent cholesterol levels converted to mg/dL:
 
Total     208
HDL      23
LDL      166
Trig      97
 
Cheers.

Brett's Journal Part VII  - The Farce Awakens
Visit the front page of my journal for links to blood logs on Ostarine, SD, Halodrol and more.
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Brett
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/08/06 07:31:36 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby stinking_dylan 2017/08/08 08:01:00
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Yet another article I came across supporting the view that cholesterol is anabolic in nature:
 
https://bayesianbodybuilding.com/cholesterol-anabolic/
 
PS- Yes, I will keep reviving this thread as and when I need to dump more related info here! 

Brett's Journal Part VII  - The Farce Awakens
Visit the front page of my journal for links to blood logs on Ostarine, SD, Halodrol and more.
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billy2shots
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/08/06 10:37:52 (permalink)
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Off topic but Bayesian bodybuilding is a good site to bookmark and follow. Menno uses a lot of science and research in his approaches and dispels a lot of b0llocks that others preach.
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vanderlei
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/08/06 18:09:38 (permalink)
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Cheers brett

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numpty
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/08/06 21:07:54 (permalink)
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Nice one Brett.
Typical tosspott drug companies having a product then trying to convince everyone they need it 

DEADLIFT..200k  x  5  
SQUAT..150k  X 7 for 3 sets 
BENCH...125 K X 5  for 3 sets 
  
OVERHEAD PRESS..85K


AVATAR  IS  Paul George.. NOT me... 
#11
Brett
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/08/07 07:40:31 (permalink)
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billy2shots
Off topic but Bayesian bodybuilding is a good site to bookmark and follow. Menno uses a lot of science and research in his approaches and dispels a lot of b0llocks that others preach.


Yes mate I read a few articles whilst I was in there very interesting. I see he is taking donations to help fund his own research projects as well! Obviously very passionate.


vanderlei
Cheers brett

numpty
Nice one Brett.
Typical tosspott drug companies having a product then trying to convince everyone they need it 


Cheers fellas. I'm not usually of the tin foil hat wearing variety but the more I read about cholesterol the more I think there might be an element of truth to your statement! Possibly one of the biggest media propaganda spins of this age.

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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/08/07 07:47:22 (permalink)
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As I understand stand it no one really knows the true role of cholesterol. In the meantime eat a sensible diet, avoid smoking, cut back on alcohol. 

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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/08/07 07:48:21 (permalink)
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That Bayesian bodybuilding is an interesting site, already I've just read that metabolic damage is a myth
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vanderlei
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/08/07 11:42:07 (permalink)
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As I said as long as my chol is not above 350-400 I'm ok with it, feel great with red meat diet as well abd saturated fats😎
Edit
I was going to run lgd but as my red meat consumptuon increased my sex drive is throug the roof which makes my wife happy so will wait with it😏
post edited by vanderlei - 2017/08/07 11:43:27

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rokkus3
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/08/08 07:46:36 (permalink)
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Great post mate, enjoyed the read.

"Fatigue makes cowards of us all" - Vince Lombardi

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stinking_dylan
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/08/08 08:02:42 (permalink)
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Great info Brett.  I've always been suspicious of this myself, but not invested any time into researching it.
Thanks for the continued updates.

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teapot
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/08/08 08:32:12 (permalink)
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My results from bloods 3 weeks ago, no training, diet fairly high in fats especially eggs, and meat, diet for the first half of the year not clean at all. I generally fast till 4/5pm though.
 
bit tricky to convert to your units, but
TRIGLYCERIDES 0.82 mmol/L 0.00-2.30                     72
CHOLESTEROL 4.95 mmol/L 0.00-4.99
HDL CHOLESTEROL *1.7 mmol/L 0.90-1.50                 65
LDL CHOLESTEROL 2.88 mmol/L 0.00-3.00                 111
Non-HDL Cholesterol 3.25 nmol/L 0.00–3.99
#18
Brett
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2017/08/08 14:56:58 (permalink)
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gingernut
As I understand stand it no one really knows the true role of cholesterol. In the meantime eat a sensible diet, avoid smoking, cut back on alcohol. 



You are right scientists are taking guesses at the role of cholesterol. The media have demonised it and the medicine/supplement manufacturers are benefiting from it. Wise words.
 
vanderlei
As I said as long as my chol is not above 350-400 I'm ok with it, feel great with red meat diet as well abd saturated fats😎
Edit
I was going to run lgd but as my red meat consumptuon increased my sex drive is throug the roof which makes my wife happy so will wait with it😏



You just finished a run not too long ago didn't you? It is always good to take a break and with the added cardio it's all good news!
 
rokkus3
Great post mate, enjoyed the read.

stinking_dylan
Great info Brett.  I've always been suspicious of this myself, but not invested any time into researching it.
Thanks for the continued updates.


Cheers fellas, more than welcome.
 
teapot
My results from bloods 3 weeks ago, no training, diet fairly high in fats especially eggs, and meat, diet for the first half of the year not clean at all. I generally fast till 4/5pm though.
 
bit tricky to convert to your units, but
TRIGLYCERIDES 0.82 mmol/L 0.00-2.30                     72
CHOLESTEROL 4.95 mmol/L 0.00-4.99
HDL CHOLESTEROL *1.7 mmol/L 0.90-1.50                 65
LDL CHOLESTEROL 2.88 mmol/L 0.00-3.00                 111
Non-HDL Cholesterol 3.25 nmol/L 0.00–3.99



LOL my numbers are actually in the same format (mmol/L) and I converted it for the forum's benefit, but it seems that only US do mg/dL.
 
Those numbers look good TBH the triglycerides are down (which is basically fat in your bloodstream) with the revered HDL chol actually higher (which is typical in many athletes so I've been reading lol.) Then again I believe genetics do play a significant role in levels too.

Brett's Journal Part VII  - The Farce Awakens
Visit the front page of my journal for links to blood logs on Ostarine, SD, Halodrol and more.
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Brett
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Re: Cholesterol and bodybuilding? Do we fit into the 'average Joe' profile? 2018/08/28 14:00:49 (permalink)
+1 (1)

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Visit the front page of my journal for links to blood logs on Ostarine, SD, Halodrol and more.
#20
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